Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

JLB777 said:

It’s funny.

Your whole man made doctrine in non existent in scripture.

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Eternal life in Christ is something that is foreign to a self righteous religiousness

JLB777 said:

Please post a scripture with the phrase
Eternal security in it.

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John 3:16

MDC said:

John 3:16

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"Eternal security" is not there. Sorry, epic fail.
Not the words, the phrase, the doctrine, or the teachings(false ) that go along with the doctrine..... again, epic fail....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

"Eternal security" is not there. Sorry, epic fail.
Not the words, the phrase, the doctrine, or the teachings(false ) that go along with the doctrine..... again, epic fail....

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Yes to the blind who look to their works as grounds for justification I see why you see that

MDC said:

Yes to the blind who look to their works as grounds for justification I see why you see that

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"Eternal security" is not there. Sorry, epic fail.
Not the words, the phrase, the doctrine, or the teachings(false ) that go along with the doctrine..... again, epic fail... "

MDC said:

John 3:16

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This scripture teaches us the condition required for eternal life.

Believe, which means obey.


Thanks for proving my point.

JLB777 said:

This scripture teaches us the condition required for eternal life.
Believe, which means obey.
Thanks for proving my point.

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Shalom to you and your household today !

Jesus did the same thing as you,
told the Scribes and Pharisees the true meaning of Scripture.

MDC said:

Eternal life in Christ is something that is foreign to a self righteous religiousness

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If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Those who are in Christ, must remain in Christ, or be cast into the fire and burned.

In Christ = Eternal life

Removed from Christ = Cast into the fire

FreeGrace2 said:

Perfect. There is one.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Now, the only way to prove that being born again doesn't include being given eternal life.

So, be my guest. Prove away.

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No mention of eternal security here.

Only the result of meeting the condition of verse 27, which you failed to mention.


You can’t get around obedience.

Without it, you will not inherit the kingdom of God.


JLB

GodsGrace101 said:

This was in post 1352...: (regarding 1 Thes 5:10)

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You should go back and read that post.
There is nothing in FG2's post about the mark of the beast.

GodsGrace101 said:

Are you speaking about sins of commission and sins of omission?

Thanks for the lesson.

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Sin is sin.
And just to add to that list.
Do you always have perfect peace?
If you don't that means you are not trusting God. Isaiah 25:3

JLB777 said:

Please post a scripture with the phrase
Eternal security in it.

Click to expand...

The words "Eternal security" are not in the Bible, but the concept is.
Look at hese verses.
1 Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

2 Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

3 Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

4 Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

5 Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them
6 Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

7 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Notice the 2 different believe's in this verse. The first one gives us eternal life. We possess it. We also need to believe for blessings. Not continue to believe to get something we already possess.

8 1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

9 John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Yet some people think Jesus will cast us out or cut us off from eternal life.

10 Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

11 1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
You don't belong to you anymore. Once you were joined to the LORD, you belong to Him now.

12 2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

13 Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

14 Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Because He is always with us we should do these 2 things.

15 1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

"Eternal security" is not there. Sorry, epic fail.
Not the words, the phrase, the doctrine, or the teachings(false ) that go along with the doctrine..... again, epic fail... "

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The words "initial" and "Ultimate" salvation aren't in the Bible either but you accept those.

Doug Melven said:

The words "Eternal security" are not in the Bible, but the concept is.
Look at hese verses.

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It is not what Scripture says that is wrong -
it is the false doctrines developed with other false teachings contrary to Scripture - the ones including osas and "eternal security", along with the lives and practices and other sins and other teachings that are associated with the false teachings and false doctrines.

When referring to what Yahweh says in Scripture,
and understanding it as Yahweh makes it known,
there is no problem at all.

Doug Melven said:

The words "Eternal security" are not in the Bible, but the concept is.
Look at hese verses.
1 Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

2 Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

3 Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

4 Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

5 Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them
6 Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

7 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Notice the 2 different believe's in this verse. The first one gives us eternal life. We possess it. We also need to believe for blessings. Not continue to believe to get something we already possess.

8 1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

9 John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Yet some people think Jesus will cast us out or cut us off from eternal life.

10 Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

11 1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
You don't belong to you anymore. Once you were joined to the LORD, you belong to Him now.

12 2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

13 Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

14 Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Because He is always with us we should do these 2 things.

15 1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.


The words "initial" and "Ultimate" salvation aren't in the Bible either but you accept those.

Click to expand...

The condition remains, throughout scriptures. Without obedience to God, to love rather than hate, which is what His commandments embody, there is no eternal life for anyone.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15



JLB

yeshuaslavejeff said:

t is not what Scripture says that is wrong -
it is the false doctrines developed with other false teachings contrary to Scripture - the ones including osas and "eternal security", along with the lives and practices and other sins and other teachings that are associated with the false teachings and false doctrines.

When referring to what Yahweh says in Scripture,
and understanding it as Yahweh makes it known,
there is no problem at all.

Click to expand...

Why don't you explain why those verses I listed don't show eternal security?

JLB777 said:

he condition remains, throughout scriptures. Without obedience to God, to love rather than hate, which is what His commandments embody, there is no eternal life for anyone.

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Why don't you explain those verses I listed don't show eternal security?

Doug Melven said:

Why don't you explain why those verses I listed don't show eternal security?

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The Father is waiting for you to turn to Him for wisdom , and to repent of the errors you made so far in this thread and in your life in the past.

There is a lot in your history , far deeper than we can get to , and we are not authorized on this forum to even try.....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

The Father is waiting for you to turn to Him for wisdom , and to repent of the errors you made so far in this thread and in your life in the past.

There is a lot in your history , far deeper than we can get to , and we are not authorized on this forum to even try.....

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What does my past have to do with your inability to answer those Scriptures?

"Born Again" from above = spiritually CHANGED!

15 so that whoever believes (SPIRIT-LED FAITH) in Him have eternal (SPIRITUAL) life....JOHN 3
whoever believes in Him shall not (SPIRITUALLY) perish, (BE SEPARATED) but have eternal (SPIRITUAL) life.
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal (SPIRITUAL) life; but he who does not obey the Son (TO BELIEVE) will not see (etenal SPIRITUAL) life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Doug Melven said:

This issue is not at debate here. Where you say a person can profess faith but not actually have it was never saved is a whole different topic than the one being discuused which is a person can actually become born-again and if they don't perform or do certain things God will take away there salvation.

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You asked: "Some people interpret John 5:29 to mean performing good works, others believe Jesus is referring to believing in Jesus and the gospel.
So I asked what is your opinion."

And I answered. I know it's a different topic, yet a very important one.

I think we need repentance and trust in Jesus to be born again. But to be a Christian you need faithful living. You can't live faithful until you are born again.

I thought you said that a person can have saving faith without works? If you mean that saving faith is works plus belief, I agree with you. Works and faith are not to be separated from each other. If you have faith, you have works. If you don't have works, you don't have faith.

Actually Martin Luther said: "It's impossible to separate deeds from faith, just as impossible as to separate heat and light from the fire."

bcbsr said:

Believers produce fruit not as a condition to be saved but rather as a consequence of being saved. Big Difference. Salvation is a free gift. Eph 2:8,9

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How can it not be a condition to be saved, when it's said:

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” /Matt 25