LDS Those Dissenting Zoramites

Ironhold

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And Mormons don't like repetitious prayers, but the sacrament prayers every Sunday are the same.

...Because they're important enough to be spelled out in scripture.

Method for administering the bread: Moroni 4

Method for administering the water: Moroni 5

Repeat: Doctrine and Covenants 20

Did this not come up in any of the lessons you had?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Again - the point of this thread is what now?

That being said, the approximate date for the chapter is 74 BC.

Clearly it is about God the Father being a Spirit and not having a physical body.

Also, words like Church and Christ are out of place for the time frame of 74 BC which shows me that this is not a historical document of any kind.
 
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Ironhold

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Also, words like Church and Christ are out of place for the time frame of 74 BC which shows me that this is not a historical document of any kind.

The term "Christ" had been given to these people, while as I said earlier "church" is likely something from the translation itself.

edit -

Mosiah 3

Here's a prophecy about Christ from 124 BC.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Hi Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ, what other words does the BOM use in the BC era which are out of place?
The term "Christ" had been given to these people, while as I said earlier "church" is likely something from the translation itself.

edit -

Mosiah 3

Here's a prophecy about Christ from 124 BC.

Sorry friend, we know from history that the phrases Church and Christ were not used in the Before Christ Era.

Here is a copy of the LXX, Septuagint http://www.bennozuiddam.com/Septuagint.pdf
those phrases are not used.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Since this went down a rabbit hole, back to the primary subject of God the Father, being a spirit and no physical body.

Alma 31:15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Rescued One

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The prayers in Mormon scripture use the word wine.

D&C 20
77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
 
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BigDaddy4

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The term "Christ" had been given to these people, while as I said earlier "church" is likely something from the translation itself.

edit -

Mosiah 3

Here's a prophecy about Christ from 124 BC.
"Christ" is an English translation of the Greek "Christos". Jews would be using "Messiah" or other such descriptive Hebrew terms. Do you have any evidence of Greek being spoken or written in the Americas as early as 124 BC?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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"Christ" is an English translation of the Greek "Christos". Jews would be using "Messiah" or other such descriptive Hebrew terms. Do you have any evidence of Greek being spoken or written in the Americas as early as 124 BC?

Good Question Big Daddy!!!

The fact that Greek, Hebrew, nor Aramaic was used in the Americas before English Clergymen came to the New World is a proof against the BOM being real.

"
STRONGS NT 5547: χριστός
χριστός, χριστη, χριστόν (χρίω), the Sept. for מָשִׁיחַ, anointed: ὁ ἱερεύς ὁ χριστός, Leviticus 4:5; Leviticus 6:22; οἱ χριστοι ἱερεῖς, 2 Macc. 1:10; the patriarchs are called, substantively, οἱ χριστοι Θεοῦ, Psalm 104:15 (Ps. 105:15); the singular ὁ χριστός τοῦ κυρίου (יְהוָה מְשִׁיחַ) king of Israel (see χρῖσμα), as 1 Samuel 2:10, 35; (1 Samuel 24:11; 1 Samuel 26:9, 11, 23); 2 Samuel 1:14; Psalm 2:2; Psalm 17:51 (Ps. 18:51); Habakkuk 3:13; (2 Chronicles 22:7); also of a foreign king, Cyrus, as sent of God, Isaiah 45:1; of the coming king whom the Jews expected to be the saviour of their nation and the author of their highest felicity: the name ὁ χριστός (מָשִׁיחַ, Chaldean מְשִׁיחָא) is not found in the O. T. but is first used of him in the Book of Enoch 48, 11 (cf. Schodde's note); 52, 4 (for the arguments by which some have attempted to prove that the section containing these passages is of Christian origin are not convincing (cf. υἱός τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, 2 and references)), after Psalm 2:2 referred to the Messiah; (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:36 Psalm 18:6, 8). Cf. Keim, ii., 549 (English translation, 4:263f; Westcott 'Additional Note' on 1 John 5:1. On the general subject see Schürer, Neutest. Zeitgesch. § 29.) "Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

The Greek word in NT for Messiah or Christ is translated as Anointed in English LXX translations, not "Christ".

Again, Christ and Church are out of place in the BOM.

What are the Egyptian words for Christ and Church Before the Common Era or Before Christ? What is your Non-LDS proof of such?

Book of Enoch 48:11 "In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed."
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The term "Christ" had been given to these people, while as I said earlier "church" is likely something from the translation itself.

edit -

Mosiah 3

Here's a prophecy about Christ from 124 BC.

What is the Egyptian for "is from all eternity to all eternity", Omnipotent, pore, "Jesus Christ", "blood of Christ", unquenchable Before the Common Era or Before Christ?

What is your Non-LDS proof of such?


Mosiah 3 reads more like an 1830 AD hindsight of what Jesus did, then it does as a Before Christ prophecy --- especially, since it uses King James English which is 200 years old by JS time.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Book of Mormon, Alma 31

7 Now the eldest of his sons he took not with him, and his name was Helaman; but the names of those whom he took with him were Shiblon and Corianton; and these are the names of those who went with him among the Zoramites, to preach unto them the word.

8 Now the Zoramites were dissenters from the Nephites; therefore they had had the word of God preached unto them.

9 But they had fallen into great errors, for they would not observe to keep the commandments of God, and his statutes, according to the law of Moses.

10 Neither would they observe the performances of the church, to continue in prayer and supplication to God daily, that they might not enter into temptation.

11 Yea, in fine, they did pervert the ways of the Lord in very many instances; therefore, for this cause, Alma and his brethren went into the land to preach the word unto them.

12 Now, when they had come into the land, behold, to their astonishment they found that the Zoramites had built synagogues, and that they did gather themselves together on one day of the week, which day they did call the day of the Lord; and they did worship after a manner which Alma and his brethren had never beheld;

13 For they had a place built up in the center of their synagogue, a place for standing, which was high above the head; and the top thereof would only admit one person.

14 Therefore, whosoever desired to worship must go forth and stand upon the top thereof, and stretch forth his hands towards heaven, and cry with a loud voice, saying:

15 Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.

16 Holy God, we believe that thou hast separated us from our brethren; and we do not believe in the tradition of our brethren, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there shall be no Christ.

17 But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of our brethren, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our God.

18 And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

19 Now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond all measure.

20 For behold, every man did go forth and offer up these same prayers.


View attachment 228836 Old North Church, Boston, MA

Why are the righteous Zoramites called righteous?

Someone here said they were not such.
 
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