Am a King James Bible Believer

KJBBeliever said:

3. The KJV translators believed they were handling the very words of God.

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As were those who translated other Bibles.
The KJV was not the first Bible to be translated into English. Other Bibles existed before the KJV; people read, used and became Christians through them. Why? Because they contained God's word and Gospel.

KJBBeliever said:

4. The KJV exalts the Lord Jesus Christ.

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As do all Bibles.

KJBBeliever said:

There is no book on this planet which exalts Christ higher than the King James Bible.

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Apart from other Bibles.
GOD exalts his Son above all, and the Bible tells us about Jesus, who IS the Word of God.

I guess this post answers my previous question; that your primary reason for starting this thread was to exalt and praise the KJV, rather than exalting God and saying how the KJV has helped you in your faith.

KJBBeliever said:

5. The KJB is supported by far more evidence. Of over 5,300 pieces of manuscript evidence, ninety-five percent supports the King James Bible! The changes in the new versions are based on the remaining five percent of manuscripts, most of which are from Alexandria, Egypt.

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So, how do you account for the KJ Translators rendering so many words, and/or phrases incorrectly?

In absolutely none of the 5300 Greek MSS, is the phrase "holy ghost" used in the Gospels.

A prime example, using YOUR KJV:

"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost" -Lk. 4:1 (KJV) A modern version.

"And Iesus being full of the holy Ghost" -Lk. 4:1 1611 AV (KJV)

And just 12 years prior to the publishing of the "Authorized versioin" the 1599 Geneva Bible reads:

"And Jesus full of the holy Ghost" -Lk. 4:1 (Geneva Bible)

In the Greek:

"Ἰησοῦς δὲ πλήρης πνεύματος" -Lk. 4:1 (GNT)

Pray tell, how did the KJ Translators get "ghost" from pneumatos?

In fact, the word for "ghost" properly translated/rendered is "Φάντασμά" (cf. Mt. 14:26; phantasm)

Even though I love my KJV, it is the one I go to to study, read, preach, and teach from, I hate KJVOnlyism.

Fact is, KJVOnlyism makes that bible an idol. An item to be worshipped, dedicated life to, instead of God.

I'm outta here!

God Bless

Till all are one.

KJBBeliever said:

"Apart from other Bibles.
GOD exalts his Son above all, and the Bible tells us about Jesus, who IS the Word of God."

Jesus is 100% perfect therefore His word must be 100% perfect

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His word IS perfect.

KJBBeliever said:

"I guess this post answers my previous question; that your primary reason for starting this thread was to exalt and praise the KJV, rather than exalting God"

thats a guess,

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Actually, no; it's fairly obvious.

I'm not saying that you don't honour, or exalt God; not at all.
But you started the thread by saying "hi" and giving a very brief testimony about being saved and the peace etc that you felt afterwards. It sounded as if you were going to share this more with us, and that maybe we would have a thread giving praise to God, and of fellowship - maybe sharing testimonies. Even if you'd said how much the KJV had/has helped you, how you learn about God and draw closer to him, that would be absolutely fine.
Instead there have been only posts about how the KJV alone is the true Bible, how great it is and how unreliable others are. The focus seems to be heavily on the importance of the KJV - even your username is KJV believer.

KJBBeliever said:

when You see that the word of God is very important You will naturally type about it

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I do.
The word of God is very important. I read and study it, I write about it, I memorise it and try to live it. I just don't use the King James version of the Bible when I do so. That's personal preference; I prefer to read God's word in other versions.

KJBBeliever said:

"and saying how the KJV has helped you in your faith."

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
it has helped everyday since i became a King James Bible Believer in 2008 i was blind to alot of things i only used the good news bible, niv and cev but when i discovered an online ministry and they showed how the king james bible is the real word of God

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ALL translations of the Bible contain the word of God and his word to us.

KJBBeliever said:

i began to see alot of things differently compared to how i was seeing them before just reading modern perversions,

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There it is again - ONLY the KJV, everything else is "perverted" or corrupt.
No.

KJBBeliever said:

i dare any "christian" or lost person or anyone to only read the king james bible and not any other translation and genuinely seek truth in the word of God You will be sure glad as i was to know the truth

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I know the truth.
JESUS is truth and has given us, and me, his Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.

KJBBeliever said:

You will be sure glad as i was to know the truth and become confident as a king james bible believer,

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I don't want to be a KJV believer - my belief and faith is in GOD.
The KJV is one translation of the Bible. Like I said, it wasn't the first. People were becoming Christians long before it appeared - how do you think the early church survived?

I'm glad the KJV is so helpful to you in your faith and in seeing Jesus, who alone is the TRUTH - but please don't imply that some of us are lesser Christians because we don't honour and love it like you do.

KJBBeliever said:

dont be afraid of changing You will realise it is for Your own benefit, it is a good thing to promote the word of God i'm being honest

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I am sure that you sincerely believe that the KJV is the only word of God and that we all need to read it to find salvation. I am sure you are honestly committed to that and in helping other people to see it also.
But you're wrong.

Strong in Him said:

His word IS perfect.



Actually, no; it's fairly obvious.

I'm not saying that you don't honour, or exalt God; not at all.
But you started the thread by saying "hi" and giving a very brief testimony about being saved and the peace etc that you felt afterwards. It sounded as if you were going to share this more with us, and that maybe we would have a thread giving praise to God, and of fellowship - maybe sharing testimonies. Even if you'd said how much the KJV had/has helped you, how you learn about God and draw closer to him, that would be absolutely fine.
Instead there have been only posts about how the KJV alone is the true Bible, how great it is and how unreliable others are. The focus seems to be heavily on the importance of the KJV - even your username is KJV believer.



I do.
The word of God is very important. I read and study it, I write about it, I memorise it and try to live it. I just don't use the King James version of the Bible when I do so. That's personal preference; I prefer to read God's word in other versions.



ALL translations of the Bible contain the word of God and his word to us.



There it is again - ONLY the KJV, everything else is "perverted" or corrupt.
No.



I know the truth.
JESUS is truth and has given us, and me, his Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth.



I don't want to be a KJV believer - my belief and faith is in GOD.
The KJV is one translation of the Bible. Like I said, it wasn't the first. People were becoming Christians long before it appeared - how do you think the early church survived?

I'm glad the KJV is so helpful to you in your faith and in seeing Jesus, who alone is the TRUTH - but please don't imply that some of us are lesser Christians because we don't honour and love it like you do.



I am sure that you sincerely believe that the KJV is the only word of God and that we all need to read it to find salvation. I am sure you are honestly committed to that and in helping other people to see it also.
But you're wrong.

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You said one thing in your reply that stood out far and above everything else that has been said, and it is 100%, absolutely true.

The Word is perfect!

The KJV is not!

And who was the "Word"?

If nobody knows the answer to that, for reference, read Jn. 1:14!

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean said:

You said one thing in your reply that stood out far and above everything else that has been said, and it is 100%, absolutely true.

The Word is perfect!

The KJV is not!

And who was the "Word"?

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Jesus is the Word of God.

Dave-W said:

Gematria ONLY works in Hebrew. Not english.

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Yep there are some fairly interesting ideas out there Dave...

KJBBeliever said:

Hello everyone,
it's great to be here
i began reading the good news bible that my Nana gave me in 1996
i became a Christian in 1996 where i felt supernatural peace and joy after praying
In 2008 i became a king james bible believer after reading about the perfection of the
king james bible from an online ministry www.contendingfortruth.com
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
i believe that Christians should be on the same team and a part of that is that we all should use the same English Bible.
Blessings,
Anthony

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I will bite - what actually is a King James Bible believer?

After all it is just an English translation of the Bible and a very good one for its time, it was all we had in Church of England services when I was growing up. The RSV was used rarely in our services and the New English Bible was on available for the New Testament. The Good New New Testament was just starting to hit the church shops.

I love the style of the KJV when reading Psalms (as that is what I grew up with) recently I read Psalm 22 for our Maundy Thursday service and some complained because they thought the language was strange. My reply was - it is poetry after all Shakespears plays would sound pretty strange if they were read in the language of the Message Bible. The response from one of the people concerned was that verse 21 sounded rather strange....

Psalm 22:21 (KJV) Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

I have always like these verses:


I find "viols" interesting as the Viola da Gamba family of instruments (viols) did not exist before about 800 ad following the Moorish invasion of Spain. But of course the viol was well known in England in the early 1600s. Christopher Simpson wrote the definitive book on playing the Division Bass Viol in 1665. (still in use)



The actual word is נֶבֶל nevel, (H5035) which was a harp invented by King David.

EmmaCat said:

I believe there are many translations and versions of the Bible to suit each follower of Christ and our God.

With that said, the debate of different translations and all should be better taken to a different forum.

For now, again, hello and welcome!

All good things
Emmy

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Good post and I agree.
I post mainly on the CS board now:

Christian Scriptures
Christian Scriptures
The Christian Scriptures forum is for discussing various Biblical scriptures.

KJBBeliever said:

someone who believes that the king james Bible is 100% truth and believes the fundamentals of the faith and goes about sharing it to others, practising what it says.

i hope people can understand these verses

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.



The KJB it is still relevant for today and is the pure word of God it is very powerful in fact if You only read and studied the king james bible You will see changes in Your life, positive changes, in my own life i started understanding alot of new things when i became King James only.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

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What?

As opposed to other translations is that what you are saying?

PS... You do realise you are quoting from the American Standard Version?

Didn't you mean?

John 17:17 Sanctifie them through thy trueth: thy word is trueth.

KJBBeliever said:

someone who believes that the king james Bible is 100% truth and believes the fundamentals of the faith and goes about sharing it to others, practising what it says.

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I would hope that everyone seeks to proclaim the Gospel and teach people what Jesus said - this is what he commanded us to do.

KJBBeliever said:

i hope people can understand these verses

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

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Those verses are just as true if you use the NIV, NASB, RSV, Amplified or some other translation.

KJBBeliever said:

The KJB it is still relevant for today

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As are other Bibles.

KJBBeliever said:

and is the pure word of God

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So how did Jesus, the disciples, Paul and the early church manage without the KJB?
Jesus didn't quote from the KJB OT, are you saying he was not quoting the "pure word of God"?

KJBBeliever said:

it is very powerful

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The word of God is sharper than a two edged sword.
Through his word, God created the universe, and he sustains it by the power of his word. The Bible - all translations - contains God's words.

KJBBeliever said:

in fact if You only read and studied the king james bible You will see changes in Your life, positive changes,

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I've seen dozens of positive changes in my life, and don't read the KJB.

KJBBeliever said:

i started understanding alot of new things when i became King James only.

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I have no doubt at all that the KJB has had a positive influence, and affect, on your life; I have no doubt that you love it and find it very helpful.
But that doesn't mean that people who don't read it don't, and can't, experience these things - neither does it mean that we do not read the word of God.

I use the DRV and the KJV. Along with the NAB and NKJV. Both are helpful, and if you can compare the modern with the early modern / Shakespearean, it's a good deal. Helps. As others have mentioned, bowels, unicorns, arguable vulgarity, ghost, kine, and other expressions are best translated into something more modern, and accurate / readily understood.

The KJB is great, but one shouldn't make a dogmatic thing about it.

I will say, though. That I would still recommend the KJB as a Protestant translation before anything modern. Not solely, but first.

Strong in Him said:

Respectfully snipped...

So how did Jesus, the disciples, Paul and the early church manage without the KJB?
Jesus didn't quote from the KJB OT, are you saying he was not quoting the "pure word of God"?

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You stole my next response LOL

Pure gold that one....

KJBBeliever said:

someone who believes that the king james Bible is 100% truth and believes the fundamentals of the faith and goes about sharing it to others, practising what it says.

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Pray tell, what are the "fundamentals"?

KJBBeliever said:

The KJB it is still relevant for today and is the pure word of God

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Define "pure".

The ONLY PURE word we had was that that was inspired by or spoken by the Prophets, and Apostles.

And sadly, the handwritten words of the prophets was lost some 3000 years ago.

And, the handwritten words of the Apostles, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, disappeared within a century of being written.

So what we have today, is not the "pure" word of God. But it is very, very close.

Not to mention, that if it is "pure". what did the church do for nearly 1500 years prior to the "Authorized Version" of 1611?

God Bless

Till all are one.

KJBBeliever said:

someone who believes that the king james Bible is 100% truth...The KJB it is still relevant for today and is the pure word of God

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Lets just focus on these two sections for a second.

Nobody would seriously dispute that the Bible does not teach the truth.

However, when you throw in the word "pure", you seriously err.

The Old Testament as we have it now, is based on the Masoretic Text. What is striking, is the fact that the KJ Translators, along with everybody else, just keeps using this text.

A little history:

"The oldest copies of the Masoretic Text only date back to the 10th century, nearly 1000 years after the time of Christ. And these texts differ from the originals in many specific ways. The Masoretic text is named after the Masoretes, who were scribes and Torah scholars who worked in the middle-east between the 7th and 11th centuries.

Many people believe that the ancient Hebrew text of Scripture was divinely preserved for many centuries, and was ultimately recorded in what we now call the “Masoretic Text”. But what did the Masoretes themselves believe? Did they believe they were perfectly preserving the ancient text? Did they even think they had received a perfect text to begin with?

History says “no” . . .

Scribal emendations – Tikkune Soferim

Early rabbinic sources, from around 200 CE, mention several passages of Scripture in which the conclusion is inevitable that the ancient reading must have differed from that of the present text. . . . Rabbi Simon ben Pazzi (3rd century) calls these readings “emendations of the Scribes” (tikkune Soferim; Midrash Genesis Rabbah xlix. 7), assuming that the Scribes actually made the changes. This view was adopted by the later Midrash and by the majority of Masoretes.

In other words, the Masorites themselves felt they had received a partly corrupted text.

A stream cannot rise higher than its source. If the texts they started with were corrupted, then even a perfect transmission of those texts would only serve to preserve the mistakes. Even if the Masoretes demonstrated great care when copying the texts, their diligence would not bring about the correction of even one error.

In addition to these intentional changes by Hebrew scribes, there also appear to be a number of accidental changes which they allowed to creep into the Hebrew text. For example, consider Psalm 145 . . .

Psalm 145 is an acrostic poem. Each line of the Psalm starts with a successive letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Yet in the Masoretic Text, one of the lines is completely missing.

Yet the Septuagint (LXX) Greek translation of the Old Testament does include the missing verse. And when that verse is translated back into Hebrew, it starts with the Hebrew letter ? (nun) which was missing from the Masoretic Text.

In the early 20th century, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in caves near Qumran. They revealed an ancient Hebrew textual tradition which differed from the tradition preserved by the Masoretes. Written in Hebrew, copies of Psalm 145 were found which include the missing verse.

This verse can be found in the Orthodox Study Bible, which relies on the Septuagint. But this verse is absent from the King James Version (KJV), the New King James Version(NKJV), the Complete Jewish Bible, and every other translation which is based on the Masoretic Text.

In this particular case, it is easy to demonstrate that the Masoretic Text is in error, for it is obvious that Psalm 145 was originally written as an acrostic Psalm. But what are we to make of the thousands of other locations where the Masoretic Text diverges from the Septuagint? If the Masoretic Text could completely erase an entire verse from one of the Psalms, how many other passages of Scripture have been edited? How many other verses have been erased?"

Masoretic Text vs. Original Hebrew · Preachers Institute

And yet, every version we have, mainly speaking of the KJV, the OT version, based on possibly a corrupt text, that is perhaps 1000 years after the time of Christ.

Fact or Fiction?

And we also know:

"A Hebrew bible exists today. It is used by Jews everywhere. It is called the Masoretic Text. It was compiled around 700 AD. It is almost 1000 years newer than the Septuagint...The Septuagint predates the appearance of the Masoretic Text by almost ten centuries."

Mystagogy: Septuagint vs. Masoretic: Which is More Accurate?; Guns, Lies, and Forgeries: A Bible Story, By: Robert E. Reis

It is funny that we know the Codex Bezae was one of the MSS used in the KJV.

And we also know that Beza's translation of Acts was the one used in the KJV.

Funny that F.A.H. Scrivener also noted that there is evidence that eight (8) scribes can be seen at work in the book of Acts.

Greg Polson writes:

"Eighteen other scribes are involved in corrections and/or lectionary notes, ranging in date from the fifth to seventh centuries (and supplemental material in the ninth century)."

Source: Scribal Habits in Codex Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Ephraemi, Bezae, and Washingtonianus in the Gospel of Matthew, Gregory Scott Polson, Dissertation, Edinburg, UK., 2013, Chapter 5: Codex Bezae, 5.1.1, The Scribe, Correctors, and Bezae's Provenance, p. 83, n11

Found on-line here: https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1842/8957/Paulson2013.pdf?sequence=2

So, if the KJV is "the preserved word of God" as KJV Onlyists tout, pray tell me which one of the up to 26 scribes was "inspired" by God?

Also, the OP boosts of the 5300 Greek MSS used.

Fact: at best, the very best, we know:

Go back and count the number of MSS used prior to the KJV.

Go back and count the number of lectionaries.

Go back and count the number of bibles.

Counting everything, seems to me I came up with a number around 54 MSS used.

The KJ Translators used only 54 texts, lectionaries, and Greek MSS', so to say with that little bit, they got it 100% correct?!?

Come on.

God Bless

Till all are one.