SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
God the Saviour and Jesus Christ are one and the same.

For your review: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, I think I'll quote it "out loud."

1 Moreover, brethren, declare unto you THE GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and WHEREIN YE STAND;

2 BY WHICH ALSO YE ARE SAVED, IF YE KEEP IN MEMORY WHAT I PREACHED UNTO YOU, UNLESS YE HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN.

3 For I delivered unto you FIRST OF ALL that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

What most people seem to forget, this is not the Gospel Jesus preached. I urge you to find that this is what Jesus preached.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

@EmSw wrote:

If a man confirms himself in falsities with pride and a hardened heart, will find himself rejecting genuine truths on the other side.

Likewise, if a man denies the truth in his heart, he may find himself accepting lies that are opposite to the truth that he denies.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Concerning Peter: do you consider that He IS inspired? or only that he might be?

I see you took little time to read what I wrote. If any of Peter's writings agree with what Jesus said, then yes, he was inspired.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
@EmSw wrote:

Likewise, if a man denies the truth in his heart, he may find himself accepting lies that are opposite to the truth that he denies.

You are correct. That is why we are encouraged to humble ourselves.

Matthew 18:4
Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

As far as humbling ourselves, we see this -

2 Samuel 22:28
You will save the humble people; but Your eyes are on the haughty, that You may bring them down.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
What most people seem to forget, this is not the Gospel Jesus preached. I urge you to find that this is what Jesus preached.

Jesus said that to the disciples that there were certain truths that the disciples couldn't bear while He was there with them, before they had the Holy Spirit within them to help them to bear it. He said that He would send the Holy Spirit who would guide them into all truth. Do you believe that Peter was a recipient of this promise?

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Jesus said that to the disciples that there were certain truths that the disciples couldn't bear while He was there with them, before they had the Holy Spirit within them to help them to bear it. He said that He would send the Holy Spirit who would guide them into all truth. Do you believe that Peter was a recipient of this promise?

True, but Jesus did reveal the Gospel to His disciples. If I may ask, please find and show me what Jesus said about the Gospel. I think it will clear a lot up.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
I'm afraid you will have to ask God why He wrote those passages in Ezekiel. If God says a wicked man can turn from his sins, who am I to argue with Him. Anyone not believing God at His word, certainly does not have faith.

As far as fish, have you not read Matthew 13?

47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind,
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away.

Some fish were good and some bad before the catch, not after Jesus cleans them.

ALL fish are bad before the catch, Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10-18, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Psalms 51:5, Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13, John 2:24-25, etc.

Certainly a wicked man can turn from his sins, if he begins to have faith.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
ALL fish are bad before the catch, Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10-18, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Psalms 51:5, Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13, John 2:24-25, etc.

Certainly a wicked man can turn from his sins, if he begins to have faith.

You didn't read, or you don't believe Matthew 13:47, 48. I hope it is you didn't read it. Let me give it to you again. Take your time and read it carefully.

Matthew 13
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind,
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away.

Notice there were good fish after they cast the net into the sea and drew it to shore.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
True, but Jesus did reveal the Gospel to His disciples. If I may ask, please find and show me what Jesus said about the Gospel. I think it will clear a lot up.

Take a look at the Sermon on the Mount. In Matthew 5:48, Jesus said that the standard of righteousness is perfection.

If you have been perfect all your life; and believe that you can be perfect for the rest of your life...well, you JUST MIGHT make it into heaven on your own merits. Your righteousness must be greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees, who were sticklers for the law.

Now, in a human court, a judge does not let a criminal off the hook because he says, I repent. If he committed a crime, he must pay the penalty, and the punishment will fit the crime. And God is certainly not less just than our human judges.

Now there is a story of a judge who had a son who violated a new law that he was unaware of. It appears there was an endangered species of snail that would cross a certain road, and animal rights activists brought into being a law that said you had to watch for snails any time you crossed that road, and could not go faster than 5 miles per hour when crossing that road.

So the judge's son went over that road at the speed he normally went across it, about 30 miles an hour, not knowing about the law. The fine associated for breaking this law was about $50,000 or 20 years in jail.

So he stands before his father at the judgment seat.

And his father the judge says, as your judge, I cannot give you preference because you are my son, I must be impartial. The fine associated with this crime is $50,000 or 20 years in jail. So I am giving you the penalty of the fine of $50,000 or 20 years in jail.

His son said, "But I didn't know about this law, and I won't do it again."

The judge said, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the fact is that you have committed a crime, the fact that you will not do it again doesn't nullify the penalty."

The judge and father said, "As your judge I fine you the $50,000 or 20 years in jail."

The son's heart sank. He couldn't pay the fine; his only option was to spend the next 20 years in jail.

Then the judge stepped down from his seat in the courtroom and said, "as your judge I had to justly penalize you the fine of $50,000. But as your father, I have made the decision that I will pay your fine. You are free to go."

This is what Jesus did for us when He died on the Cross. He paid the penalty for our sin, He paid it Himself, a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.

Now read Luke 7:36-50. Anyone who is forgiven in this manner will love their Father in a way that they didn't before.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
You didn't read, or you don't believe Matthew 13:47, 48. I hope it is you didn't read it. Let me give it to you again. Take your time and read it carefully.

Matthew 13
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind,
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away.

Notice there were good fish after they cast the net into the sea and drew it to shore.

So you're saying that you believe that there are those who were not born in iniquity and sin? King David must have been one of the bad fish, see Psalms 51:5.

This is not sound doctrine. No one is good but God. Barnabas became good as a result of his faith in Jesus Christ, after the Cross, and after the Holy Spirit was given; but in our natural state before we come to Christ, not one of us is good.

Even Jesus said this, in Matthew 19:17 and Luke 18:19. Also the other verses I gave teach on the total depravity of man. Again, they are Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10-18, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Psalms 51:5, Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13, and John 2:24-25. Just thought of another one: Ephesians 2:1.

I suggest that you look theses verses/passages up.

Therefore the fishes that Jesus finds to be good, must be those fishes that Jesus and His servants were able to clean without too much of a problem.

Another analogy has to do with the potter and the clay. Some clay is malleable in the potter's hand, other clay resists the process of being molded and shaped. The good clay is the malleable clay. It is not that the clay or fish is virtuous, but that it is of the kind that responds to what the potter or fisherman wants to do with it.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Take a look at the Sermon on the Mount. In Matthew 5:48, Jesus said that the standard of righteousness is perfection.

If you have been perfect all your life; and believe that you can be perfect for the rest of your life...well, you JUST MIGHT make it into heaven on your own merits. Your righteousness must be greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees, who were sticklers for the law.

Let's look at the verses to which you refer.

Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Here's the standard about which Jesus was speaking - the key is in verses 44 and 45. Notice Jesus said to love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. Then He says for even the Father makes the sun to rise and sends rain on not only the just and good, but also the just and unjust.

Therefore being perfect just as the Father in Heaven is, we are to do good to the unjust and evil, and not to those who love you and greet you.

justbyfaith said:
Now, in a human court, a judge does not let a criminal off the hook because he says, I repent. If he committed a crime, he must pay the penalty, and the punishment will fit the crime.

That is true of an earthly court, however; God's court is a Heavenly court. He judges according to the heart.

justbyfaith said:
Now there is a story of a judge who had a son who violated a new law that he was unaware of. It appears there was an endangered species of snail that would cross a certain road, and animal rights activists brought into being a law that said you had to watch for snails any time you crossed that road, and could not go faster than 5 miles per hour when crossing that road.

So the judge's son went over that the road at the speed he normally went across it, about 30 miles an hour, not knowing about the law. The fine associated for breaking this law was about $50,000 or 20 years in jail.

So he stands before his father at the judgment seat.

And his father the judge says, as your judge, I cannot give you preference because you are my son, I must be impartial. The fine associated with this crime is $50,000 or 20 years in jail. So I am giving you the penalty of the fine of $50,000 or 20 years in jail.

His son said, "But I didn't know about this law, and I won't do it again."

The judge said, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and the fact is that you have committed a crime, the fact that you will not do it again doesn't nullify the penalty."

The son's heart sunk. He couldn't pay the fine; his only option was to spend the next 20 years in jail.

The judge and father said, "As your judge I fine you the $50,000 or 20 years in jail."

Then the judge stepped down from his seat in the courtroom and said, "as your judge I had to justly penalize you the fine of $50,000. But as your father, I have made the decision that I will pay your fine. You are free to go."

You gave a good scenario for an earthly court. Now let's look at the Heavenly court.

Luke 24
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

It doesn't as involved as you stated in an earthly court. Jesus said repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name, not His death, burial, and resurrection.

Anyway, if we look at what remission means, we will see the Heavenly court in action. Here is what Strong's says -

release from bondage or imprisonment
forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Notice, remission means 'release from bondage or imprisonment', therefore, no prison sentence. It also means forgiveness or pardon of sins, that is, letting them go as if they had never been committed. This is the Heavenly court in action, that is, pardon of sins. Also, we see it is the remission of the penalty. Therefore, no serving time or paying a fine, for the penalty is remitted.

The judge didn't pay any fine, nor serve any time, nor suffered any penalty for the crime. The judge didn't send his son to pay anything either. It was all done by forgiveness through His mercy.

justbyfaith said:
This is what Jesus did for us when He died on the Cross. He paid the penalty for our sin, He paid it Himself, a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.

Now read Luke 7:36-50. Anyone who is forgiven in this manner will love their Father in a way that they didn't before.

I'm sorry JBF, dying on a cross is not part of remission that I just gave you. Jesus said He had power on earth to forgive sins. This was without any physical bloodshed, any suffering, and any cross. What people want to believe is not what Jesus said about remission. Remission is through genuine repentance, and Jesus forgave sins on the earth before the cross many times.

So, do you believe Jesus when He says repent for the remission of sins? Or, do you want to add something else?

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

Also, you yourself have said that if God says a wicked man can turn from his sins, who are you to argue with God? But wouldn't the wicked man be a bad fish because he is wicked? Now God can certainly take the man's sins and turn him into a righteous person; but it seems to me that that is God catching the fish and then cleaning it.

Come as you are, with all your sins. Believe in Him; and He will be the One to sanctify you.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
So you're saying that you believe that there are those who were not born in iniquity and sin? King David must have been one of the bad fish, see Psalms 51:5.

Here is Psalm 51:5 -

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

I'm sure you know what 'conceive' is. At conception, there is no newborn, that is, no person at all. How can 'nothing' be in sin?

If you notice the title at the start of this Psalm, you will see what David is saying. Here it is -

To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Notice, this Psalm is about David going in to Bathsheba (of course you know what that is). It was David's iniquity by which this child was brought forth; it was his mother's (Bathsheba's) sin which conceived him.

justbyfaith said:
This is not sound doctrine. No one is good but God. Barnabas became good as a result of his faith in Jesus Christ, after the Cross, and after the Holy Spirit was given; but in our natural state before we come to Christ, not one of us is good.

Even Jesus said this, in Matthew 19:17 and Luke 18:19. Also the other verses I gave teach on the total depravity of man. Again, they are Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10-18, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Psalms 51:5, Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13, and John 2:24-25. Just thought of another one: Ephesians 2:1.

This is what happens when people don't know the Bible.

2 Samuel 18:27
So the watchman said, “I think the running of the first is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok.” And the king said, “he is a good man, and comes with good news.”

Psalm 37:23
The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in his way.

Psalm 112:5
A good man deals graciously and lends; he will guide his affairs with discretion.

Proverbs 11:17
The merciful man does good for his own soul, but he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.

Proverbs 12:2
A good man obtains favor from the Lord, but a man of wicked intentions He will condemn.

Proverbs 13:22
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children, but the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

Proverbs 14:14
The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, but a good man will be satisfied from above.

Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

Now you know the Bible speaks of a good man.

justbyfaith said:
I suggest that you look theses verses/passages up.

Therefore the fishes that Jesus finds to be good, must be those fishes that Jesus and His servants were able to clean without too much of a problem.

I sure wish you wouldn't add to what Jesus said. It shows you are straining to make the Word fit your beliefs.

justbyfaith said:
Another analogy has to do with the potter and the clay. Some clay is malleable in the potter's hand, other clay resists the process of being molded and shaped. The good clay is the malleable clay. It is not that the clay or fish is virtuous, but that it is of the kind that responds to what the potter or fisherman wants to do with it.

You say yourself there is good clay, but then turn around and infer it isn't good clay. Let me show you something else from Luke.

Luke 8:15
But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Do you see the word fell on good ground. The good ground are those who heard the word with a noble and good heart. How is it good ground, that is, a noble and good heart before it hears the word?

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Also, you yourself have said that if God says a wicked man can turn from his sins, who are you to argue with God? But wouldn't the wicked man be a bad fish because he is wicked? Now God can certainly take the man's sins and turn him into a righteous person; but it seems to me that that is God catching the fish and then cleaning it.

Come as you are, with all your sins. Believe in Him; and He will be the One to sanctify you.

You clean a fish to eat it. You clean a heart to live right.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
Let's look at the verses to which you refer.

Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Here's the standard about which Jesus was speaking - the key is in verses 44 and 45. Notice Jesus said to love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. Then He says for even the Father makes the sun to rise and sends rain on not only the just and good, but also the just and unjust.

Therefore being perfect just as the Father in Heaven is, we are to do good to the unjust and evil, and not to those who love you and greet you.

That is a nice commentary; but you have sidestepped the point altogether.

That is true of an earthly court, however; God's court is a Heavenly court. He judges according to the heart.

I edited the post, but you answered before I did, so I will repeat myself here: A human judge isn't going to be more just than God.

You gave a good scenario for an earthly court. Now let's look at the Heavenly court.

Luke 24
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

It doesn't as involved as you stated in an earthly court. Jesus said repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name, not His death, burial, and resurrection.

How did Jesus suffer?

Anyway, if we look at what remission means, we will see the Heavenly court in action. Here is what Strong's says -

release from bondage or imprisonment

forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Notice, remission means 'release from bondage or imprisonment', therefore, no prison sentence. It also means forgiveness or pardon of sins, that is, letting them go as if they had never been committed. This is the Heavenly court in action, that is, pardon of sins. Also, we see it is the remission of the penalty. Therefore, no serving time or paying a fine, for the penalty is remitted.

There is no real justice in your view. God just lets them off the hook because they say, "I won't do it again." What's to keep them from doing it again? Don't you see?

The judge didn't pay any fine, nor serve any time, nor suffered any penalty for the crime. The judge didn't send his son to pay anything either. It was all done by forgiveness through His mercy.

Again, the justice of the LORD is compromised in your view. See Romans 3:25-26. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

There are two irreconcilable attributes in the heart of God: justice and mercy. Justice requires that the full penalty for crimes be exacted; mercy desires that the perpetrator get less than what he deserves. You can not have perfect justice and also have mercy. And God is perfectly just.

So He paid the penalty Himself so He could show mercy to us. His justice is satisfied in that He Himself took the penalty, and He is able to show mercy because we don't have to pay the penalty ourselves for the sins that we have committed. Justice and mercy meet at the Cross, as the song says.

I'm sorry JBF, dying on a cross is not part of remission that I just gave you. Jesus said He had power on earth to forgive sins. This was without any physical bloodshed, any suffering, and any cross. What people want to believe is not what Jesus said about remission. Remission is through genuine repentance, and Jesus forgave sins on the earth before the cross many times.

So, do you believe Jesus when He says repent for the remission of sins? Or, do you want to add something else?

Yes, Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins. This is because He was slain from before the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8. God the Father looks upon the Cross from the perspective of eternity. From the perspective of Him being outside of time, the Cross has already happened and is continually happening in the present moment, from God's perspective. So Jesus was able to forgive sins because of the work of the Cross because it was as good as done; though it was yet in the future for our Lord, yet the Father looking down saw the Lord forgiving the paralytic and dying on the Cross in God's same moment. For God lives in one eternal moment.

It is like if you watch a parade. If I am on the sidelines, I see the parade as it goes by, I see each float one after another in a process of time. But if I am in a blimp above the parade, I can see all of the blimps in the same moment. God's perspective is like that of being in the blimp, He is outside of time. Our perspective is like that of being on the sidelines; we see everything from moment to moment as time passes us by.

And certainly repentance is needed for us to be forgiven. If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Psalms 66:18. How will I grab hold of the forgiveness of God offered through the Cross of Christ if I am holding on to some kind of sin in my life? I will pray and the Lord will not hear. Therefore when I cast down my idols, I open the way for the Lord to hear me when I ask Him to forgive me of my sins through His abundant sacrifice.

EmSw · May 14, 2018

justbyfaith said:
That is a nice commentary; but you have sidestepped the point altogether.

I edited the post, but you answered before I did, so I will repeat myself here: A human judge isn't going to be more just than God.

How did Jesus suffer?

There is no real justice in your view. God just lets them off the hook because they say, "I won't do it again." What's to keep them from doing it again? Don't you see?

Again, the justice of the LORD is compromised in your view. See Romans 3:25-26. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

There are two irreconcilable attributes in the heart of God: justice and mercy. Justice requires that the full penalty for crimes be exacted; mercy desires that the perpetrator get less than what he deserves. You can not have perfect justice and also have mercy. And God is perfectly just.

So He paid the penalty Himself so He could show mercy to us. His justice is satisfied in that He Himself took the penalty, and He is able to show mercy because we don't have to pay the penalty ourselves for the sins that we have committed. Justice and mercy meet at the Cross, as the song says.

Yes, Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins. This is because He was slain from before the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8. God the Father looks upon the Cross from the perspective of eternity. From the perspective of Him being outside of time, the Cross has already happened and is continually happening in the present moment, from God's perspective. So Jesus was able to forgive sins because of the work of the Cross because it was as good as done; though it was yet in the future for our Lord, yet the Father looking down saw the Lord forgiving the paralytic and dying on the Cross in God's same moment. For God lives in one eternal moment.

It is like if you watch a parade. If I am on the sidelines, I see the parade as it goes by, I see each float one after another in a process of time. But if I am in a blimp above the parade, I can see all of the blimps in the same moment. God's perspective is like that of being in the blimp, He is outside of time. Our perspective is like that of being on the sidelines; we see everything from moment to moment as time passes us by.

And certainly repentance is needed for us to be forgiven. If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Psalms 66:18. How will I grab hold of the forgiveness of God offered through the Cross of Christ if I am holding on to some kind of sin in my life? I will pray and the Lord will not hear. Therefore when I cast down my idols, I open the way for the Lord to hear me when I ask Him to forgive me of my sins through His abundant sacrifice.

Thank you for an enjoyabe conversation. I must be off to bed. I will talk about justice tomorrow. Have a good evening, JBF.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
Here is Psalm 51:5 -

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

I'm sure you know what 'conceive' is. At conception, there is no newborn, that is, no person at all. How can 'nothing' be in sin?

Life begins at conception. It is not a "nothing".

If you notice the title at the start of this Psalm, you will see what David is saying. Here it is -

To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Notice, this Psalm is about David going in to Bathsheba (of course you know what that is). It was David's iniquity by which this child was brought forth; it was his mother's (Bathsheba's) sin which conceived him.

David was referring to himself in Psalms 51:5, not his son.

This is what happens when people don't know the Bible.

2 Samuel 18:27
So the watchman said, “I think the running of the first is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok.” And the king said, “he is a good man, and comes with good news.”

Psalm 37:23
The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in his way.

Psalm 112:5
A good man deals graciously and lends; he will guide his affairs with discretion.

Proverbs 11:17
The merciful man does good for his own soul, but he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.

Proverbs 12:2
A good man obtains favor from the Lord, but a man of wicked intentions He will condemn.

Proverbs 13:22
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children, but the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

Proverbs 14:14
The backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways, but a good man will be satisfied from above.

Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

Now you know the Bible speaks of a good man.

And yet Matthew 19:17 says the following (I'm surprised you haven't picked this up because it is one of your favorite verses to quote): And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

The scriptures which you have quoted just above were written for our benefit, who are alive after the Cross (1 Peter 1:12). After the Cross, we can be made good because the Holy Spirit is given to come and dwell within us, and the fruit of the Spirit is among other things goodness (Galatians 5:22-23). But in and of ourselves, not one of us is good, that is Bible 101.

I sure wish you wouldn't add to what Jesus said. It shows you are straining to make the Word fit your beliefs.

You say yourself there is good clay, but then turn around and infer it isn't good clay. Let me show you something else from Luke.

Luke 8:15
But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Do you see the word fell on good ground. The good ground are those who heard the word with a noble and good heart. How is it good ground, that is, a noble and good heart before it hears the word?

It has to do with the Lord breaking up the fallow ground. Jeremiah 4:3 and Hosea 10:12.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

EmSw said:
Thank you for an enjoyabe conversation. I must be off to bed. I will talk about justice tomorrow. Have a good evening, JBF.

May the Lord give you sweet sleep, and also speak to you in your dreams, keeping the enemy out.

justbyfaith · May 14, 2018

Gr8Grace said:
Again, look at the context. It is a wolf if SHEEPS clothing. And it is about their DOCTRINE.

They are acting like a sheep, so they are going to try to produce 'good' fruit. Live a nice life, quit sin, follow Jesus' good works, be as righteous a possible.......But their doctrines(fruits) reveal that they are workers of iniquity(Self righteous works/dung/evil.)

Iniquity is not only self-righteousness. It is primarily the sins of the flesh. See 2 Peter 2:9-10.

And doctrine is important. Therefore in our doctrine we ought not to deny such concepts as are found in Matthew 13:41-42.

Having a desire to produce good fruit doesn't place someone outside the kingdom. It is usually a sign that someone is in the kingdom. And doctrine is the root, not the fruit. Therefore if someone is truly bearing good fruit, there is something right with their doctrine, which is the root of their behaviour.

FreeGrace2 · May 15, 2018

I asked this:
"Really? And upon what basis is He your Savior?

What did He do to save you, specifically? Do you have any idea?"

EmSw said:
2 Samuel 22
2 ...“The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
3 The God of my strength, in whom I will trust; my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; my Savior, You save me from violence.
4 I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised; so shall I be saved from my enemies.

Psalm 106:21
They forgot God their Savior, Who had done great things in Egypt,

Isaiah 49:26
I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh, and they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine. All flesh shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

Isaiah 45
21 Tell and bring forth your case; yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me.
22 “Look to Me, and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isaiah 63:8
For He said, “surely they are My people, children who will not lie.” So He became their Savior.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the Lord your God ever since the land of Egypt, and you shall know no God but Me; for there is no savior besides Me.

None of these verses says anything about HOW Jesus saves anyone.

I will ask you, is there a savior besides the Lord, since the land of Egypt, the Mighty One of Jacob, the Savior and Redeemer of Israel, Who did great things in Egypt?

There isn't, but none of your verses addresses HOW He is Savior.

My question was based on a post where you claimed Jesus is your Savior.

So, again, I will ask; HOW does He save you?

It appears that because He "did great things in Egypt" you feel that's how He saves you?

Is that the best the other site trained you in dealing with Christian sites?

What is clear is that you have no clue as to how Jesus saves anyone. None at all.

And your post confirms that fact.

SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

White Horse Rider

justified sinner

justified sinner

justified sinner

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