Galatians 3:19
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The7thColporteur
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Not about 'trapping' anyone - you are not a 'bear'. You are someone most precious to be treated with respect, kindness, love. I cited those previous things to show you that there is a specific order within the spiritual body of Christ, even as the natural body demonstrates [1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB]. For instance, my arm is not separated from my body, but is attached at a specific location to serve a specific function, and so likewise each member of the body of Christ. The Finger canot say to the Hand I have no need of you. And the Hand cannot say to the Arm I have no need of you. Each body part cannot of its own self act independantly of the body, otherwise, what happens is something like an auto immune disease, the body would attack itself, not recognizing each member as a part of itself in the greater connectivity. It would also be likened unto spasmodic reactions, where a hand could rise up and slap the face, or a leg kick out suddenly and bash the other. Other parts which are separated from the body evenutally grow numb, cold and die, and this the natural, so what then in the spiritual?
It is not about argu[ment], as I really dislike to do that. I do like to share and study.
This saddens me, as mankind was made for fellowship. It is not good that the man should be alone.
You stay home? May I ask what you do presently to minister to others? Mankind was also made for ministry, to tend and to keep. To gather and to plant, to water and to guide. The Garden of Eden Home School was to teach mankind many things. Do you garden at all?
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The7thColporteur
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A greater body, under a Council, as per Acts.
I have, and have seen it. It is those individual persons that claim the name of Christ Jesus, and generally want no part of the greater body of Christ Jesus [I am not speaking of those who are geographically isolated, but those willingly isolated]. In other words, they claim to want Christ Jesus, but not to associate with His body, the members, in close ties, as a natural body would. Those that do this willingly, normally have spiritual disease, and erroneous doctrines, because they have no greater sounding board of the body, whom the Holy Ghost works through. There is no concerted effort by these to band together, to be in one accord, unity of mind, purpose and heart to win souls for God, accomplish bold maneuvers for the Kingdom of God. The disorganized religion is ultimately self-ish, and unwilling to subject itself to the community of believers [as in the LORD, according to the word of God]. They are ultramontane in the sense of their own person.
Notice, God has organization, structure, purpose, fellowship, etc.:
Acts 2:42 KJB - And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:43 KJB - And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 2:44 KJB - And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 2:45 KJB - And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 KJB - Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Notice:Acts 2:43 KJB - And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 2:44 KJB - And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 2:45 KJB - And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 2:47 KJB - Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Matthew 18:17 KJB - And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Acts 14:23 KJB - And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
1 Timothy 3:15 KJB - But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Notice Paul:Acts 14:23 KJB - And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
1 Timothy 3:15 KJB - But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Acts 9:6 KJB - And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:17 KJB - And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 KJB - And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 9:26 KJB - And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Acts 11:30 KJB - Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
etc...
I hope that is helpful to you 'bk'.
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Marco70
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A lot of people have been put off going to church, because of bad experiences. One Christian counsellor told me he had spent much time trying to help people who had ended up in a terrible mess because they were never taught the truth of the message, but rather in reality one that taught righteousness of observing the law. And many, end up as Paul described of his life as a Pharisee in Rom7:7-11. The counsellor told me such people had experienced what he termed ''spiritual abuse''
I hope you are not troubled, by those who do not seek to understand, but rather just quote scripture to try and find fault with you. Such an attitude says much about them
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Marco70
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Some join a church where it is inferred if you commit any sin you cannot be a Christian. And many who may go there convince themselves(somehow) that they do do not commit sin. But not everyone can act that way. And a sincere, and honest person who may go to the church, then gets crushed, for they know, in honest estimation of themselves they are not perfect in the flesh. The strive(in reality) under righteousness of observing the law. And many, end up consumed by all manner of concupiscence. The wife of a Christian counsellor told me: Half the sex addicts in the US at one time or another went to churches described as ''holiness churches''
Too much for some to understand. But not if you can understand the message contained in the letter
Too much for some to understand. But not if you can understand the message contained in the letter
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I would love to attend a church that is somewhat reasonable in doctrine and practice. I live in the sticks. Churches around here are are businesses or control centers opposed to centers for Christians. They all teach grace and practice law. Practicing the law is bondage and anti Christian. The law has nothing to do with Christianity.
What makes you think I do not continue in the Apostles' doctrine? I fellowship with other Christians usually three times a week.
So who cares? God has used me in an organized church and I have been repulsed for over shadowing others for it.
So what. Do you have in common with other believers? Your car, house? I doubt it.
Bet you are not guilty of this kind of behavior.
You most likely do not do this.
Maybe you are trying to get me in trouble here. I can certainly do this. It's rather simple - sit down, shut up and fill the coffers. That has always made me able to get along. What ever you do do not speak the truth. You will only be tolerated by being branded as a trouble maker.
Been there, done that and have the tee-shirt. Never again.
Big deal, the do the emphasized most every where. That is where it stops - forget the fasting and prayer part. Oh they say a manipulated prayer all right. That is for appearance sake.
Why are you trying to manipulate me?
bugkiller
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The7thColporteur
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I know of only one standard for "doctrine and practice", and that is found in the verses I cited, and in rest of the Bible [KJB].
What do you mean by "somewhat reasonable" in those matters identified?
Ok. Is it within 30-50 miles of a gathering body? I know many people that travel such distances every sabbath, when able [unless snow, flood, etc., prevents]. In foreign countries, expecially asian, where the 'sticks' is the greater part of the country, and many walk many hours over mountain passes to reach the gathering of brethren.
Are you speaking of 501C3 status or something else? Please clarify, thank you.
They teach grace and obedience to God's law? Could you explain "practice law"?
If you mean obedience to God's commandments as found in Exodus 20:1-17 KJB by God's grace; that is not anti-Christian.
Sin [1 John 3:4 KJB] is the bondage Jesus came to set us free from, and it is sin that is anti-Christian.
That ideology is an extreme and gross misunderstanding of Law and Grace. Why did we all need grace to begin with?
What you say in regards specific matters, such as Law/Grace, Organization, and just the general manner of your attitude [by their fruits, I will know them]. From this perspective it is cold, frigid, stand-offish, harsh, self-righteous among other expressions. Not to be hard, just expressing how I experience your replies.
Ok. They must live near you then in the "sticks"? Do you lead out, or is it a general study? What are you presently studying together? Just curious.
I do, among others. I am rather shocked to see that you say this.
Not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate more specifically?
I share all that is given to me, since it does not belong to me, but I am simply a steward of that which is provided to me. I own no house as stated before. I had no car until recently, but was given a vehicle from a brother I had not known, and another brother is helping me to fix it, to be used for service, ministry.
Don't be so doubting in what Christ Jesus has done in others.
I do not gamble. It is a sin to do so. I do share with those who have need. I have even spoken of specific examples in this forum, and was simply mocked for it by a particular Zimbabwean.
Why would you think so? What evidence did you have for your thinking?
I have no need/desire to do that.
That is a very poor view of the verse cited. Tithe and offering are part of the Christian duty of love, this is for certain, for they teach us something tremendous about God, even Jesus Christ, and allow us to demonstrate that heart of faithfulness in stewardship and giving.
Do you have events in mind that you refer to? Would you care to share them?
I know exactly how that is 'bk', on several levels, but I still speak the truth anyway, because I love those who are in error [and I speak to my own experience with members internal, not you].
I likewise have tried to tell certain persons within about various issues, and I am the one branded as the heretick, the one out of order, etc. Ultimately, those who reject I leave to themselves, and continue with other brethren that know their Bible and the SoP/ToJ. There have been many days of tears 'bk' [for them, others and myself], but I do not turn against them all, for the unfaithful few.
I would ask that you re-consider your position 'bk', in that if God asks you to come back for service in the great body, would you refuse such an offer of His grace?
We ought rather to say:
James 4:15 KJB - For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
If you were given opportinity to be reconciled with the brethren, and they to you, would still say, 'never'? Humility is for both. Infallibility for neither [for it belongs to God].
I know how hard it is to say, "I was wrong, please forgive me." You can even ask certain persons in this very forum, whom I have had to apologize to.
You are presently judging an awful lot of hearts 'bk'.
1 Corinthians 14:36 KJB - What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
It is done almost everywhere because it is enjoined in scripture [KJB] to do so. Do you acknowledge it?
1 Corinthians 14:37 KJB - If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
I have no need, nor desire, to manipulate anyone. My old man of sin did that easily enough. Christ Jesus forbids me do such things and to love as He does. Love is patient, long suffering, and kind. It takes the time to show a person the better way:
Acts 18:26 KJB - And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
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Marco70
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The true dividing line in Christianity is NOT according to denomination, but rather the Holy Spirit. You either accept the fullness of the Holy Spirit available to you, or you do not:
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
Rom7:6
Those who relentlessly stress law/you can only be in a saved state if you observe the law/your judgement will be based on obeying the letter that kills etc, have chosen their path. They follow after the written code, not the Holy Spirit, for it can only be one or the other. They will never be able to understand the true message contained in the letter, for they have rejected following after the only one who can lead into spiritual truth. Yes, they can endlessly quote the letter, but they cannot understand the true message the letter contains.
When I sat in a circle in an sda Sabbath school. I looked around at the people. I thought they were really nice, courteous and friendly. But I was overwhelmed by one overriding thought. ''Where is the Holy Spirit?''
And so that is why there is such disagreement here. You either follow after the written code or the Holy Spirit-who is the spirit of truth, you cannot do both(Rom7:6)
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
Rom7:6
Those who relentlessly stress law/you can only be in a saved state if you observe the law/your judgement will be based on obeying the letter that kills etc, have chosen their path. They follow after the written code, not the Holy Spirit, for it can only be one or the other. They will never be able to understand the true message contained in the letter, for they have rejected following after the only one who can lead into spiritual truth. Yes, they can endlessly quote the letter, but they cannot understand the true message the letter contains.
When I sat in a circle in an sda Sabbath school. I looked around at the people. I thought they were really nice, courteous and friendly. But I was overwhelmed by one overriding thought. ''Where is the Holy Spirit?''
And so that is why there is such disagreement here. You either follow after the written code or the Holy Spirit-who is the spirit of truth, you cannot do both(Rom7:6)
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Why do you seem to need to counsel me back into foolishness?
Why do you need to bring up so many side issues?
I started to respond to your complete post and decided better.
bugkiller
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The7thColporteur
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As you will 'bk', though I am glad you began an attempt.
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No problem for me except I can't participate in regular religious activities. That would be detrimental to my spiritual well being or be a disrupter upsetting people's apple cart, namely the leadership.
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A bit dog always is the one yelping. It's interesting those who preach (harp on) against adultery are usually the guilty. I was told by a non SDA pastor an SDA preacher came to him for counseling because he was committing adultery. His justification was the same minister he went to didn't keep the sabbath.
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Why are you making this a personal matter trying to counsel another into religion? Just so you can argue? What is wrong with following the NT order of conduct for the Christian?
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Maybe this has already been posted:
2 Corinthians 3:1515 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
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Marco70
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Yes, they always excuse/justify their sin. A woman who relentlessly insisted you must obey the TC(SDA) was having multiple affairs at the same time. When I pointed out to her she was not obeying the TC, she replied:
No one is perfect and all sin is equal
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Marco70
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Amazing, yes, but absolutely true.
I never tire of repeating this. In biblical times, those who most insisted you must obey the letter to attain to heaven/be in a saved state etc, were, on the inside full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean.
The most flagrant sin I have seen in over forty years of attending various churches, I saw at an sda church I went to, to please a friend. That is the absolute truth.
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