Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
That's nice. So is mine.

I don't really care how Italians write.

Which is why I post; to refute the false doctrines out there.

I possess what Jesus taught. Are you insinuating that Jesus is a liar?

I totally agree with this. I've NEVER agreed that walking down any aisle saves anyone.

Neither does repeating a prayer that someone else is praying or reciting.

The ONLY way to be saved is what Paul told the jailer: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

No aisles, no prayers, no hands in the air. Just believe.

Once again you know not what you speak.

There are many tenses in the Bible. I thought you knew some Greek expert? Why don't you run that beauty by him/her for analysis.

In order to never perish. Ever.

Well, gots news for ya. The aorist tense refutes the notions in your noggin.

Paul's answer to the jailer was to 'believe' in the aorist tense. That's past tense, my dear.

And when Jesus told the woman at Jacob's well to drink the water He gives, he also used the aorist tense.

So please don't tell me that "all the language in the Bible is present tense".

That is just laughable. And wrong.

Then why do you do that?

Since you don't believe what Jesus said, no problem. I much prefer talking to those who are actually interested in truth.

Still bugging you, huh.

The incorrect doctine is yours, lady. Which I've proved by what Jesus SAID. And you've obviously rejected.

Why are persons who believe in OSAS so harsh, inconsiderate and impolite?
:scratch:

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Why didn't Jesus say that in John 10:28?

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Wow. Saved by faith. Kept by works. Interesting. But wrong.

BNR32FAN · May 14, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
No you don't. You believe that believes CAN perish. Unlike what Jesus promised.

v.27 implies NOTHING. It is a verse of description only.

The mistakes being committed on this forum is the claim that salvation can be lost.

Such claims dishonor Jesus and what He so clearly taught.

Yes, all who believe that salvation can be lost dishonor Jesus and His words. They are WRONG. Absolutely wrong.

Who cares what 1500 years of sloppy thinking led to? I care what the Bible SAYS.

And the Bible SAYS that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Which is what I believe.

Wow you actually believe that Jesus’ church failed to deliver His message correctly. Not one Christian Church was faithful to accomplish what Jesus had sent the apostles to do. :swoon:

BNR32FAN · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:

Is this insane or what? :sigh:

faroukfarouk · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
We obey to stay saved.
John 3:36

Sorry, I don' t believe that this construction is what John 3.36 says.

It's all of grace, or not at all.

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
Is this insane or what?

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

faroukfarouk said:
Sorry, I don' t believe that this construction is what John 3.36 says.

It's all of grace, or not at all.

How do YOU understand John 3:36?
WHO said it's grace or nothing at all?
Post some scripture.

John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

So, if we don't keep His commandments, doesn't that mean we don't love Him???

Doug Melven · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
If you STOP HEARING, KNOWING and FOLLOWING Him, you are no longer one of His sheep.

You were doing so well up to this point in post 917, then you had to insert your opinion into it.
10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Nowhere in this verse does it say we will or can stop believing, hearing His Voice.
That is human reasoning that says we stop.
As I said before and will say again, "You don't belong to you, you belong to Him, He owns you now".
Just as if a slave were to run away from his master, that slave still belongs to his master.
Our choice to decide who our master is is gone. We may choose to serve another master, but that does not change the fact of who our True Master is.

faroukfarouk · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
How do YOU understand John 3:36?
WHO said it's grace or nothing at all?
Post some scripture.

John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

So, if we don't keep His commandments, doesn't that mean we don't love Him???

Ephesians 2.8-10 is a good summary.

Those who don't obey the Son -as John 3.36 says - are not believers in the first place, so there is no question of losing a salvation that they never had in the first place.

Doug Melven · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
WHO said it's grace or nothing at all?
Post some scripture.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

Doug Melven said:
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 11 is addressing the Jews.
Romans 9 to 11 is Paul speaking to his Jewish brethren who were used to being saved by works. WORKS UNDER THE LAW.

We are no longer under the Law..
We are saved by grace.
UNTO good works.
Ephesians 2:10

BNR32FAN · May 14, 2018

faroukfarouk said:
Ephesians 2.8-10 is a good summary.

Those who don't obey the Son -as John 3.36 says - are not believers in the first place, so there is no question of losing a salvation that they never had in the first place.

But there is evidence that people can be blotted out of the book of life.

“Erase their names from the Book of Life; don’t let them be counted among the righteous.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭69:28

“All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5

Doug Melven · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
Romans 11 is addressing the Jews.
Romans 9 to 11 is Paul speaking to his Jewish brethren who were used to being saved by works. WORKS UNDER THE LAW.

We are no longer under the Law..
We are saved by grace.
UNTO good works.
Ephesians 2:10

So you are saying Jews are saved by grace alone, but we Gentiles need grace and works?

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

faroukfarouk said:
Ephesians 2.8-10 is a good summary.

Those who don't obey the Son -as John 3.36 says - are not believers in the first place, so there is no question of losing a salvation that they never had in the first place.

John was speaking to believers, but let's put this aside.

Let's try this one:
Hebrews 3:12-19

Paul is speaking to his brethren.
He's telling them they should not FALL AWAY from the Living God.
verse 12

He tells his brethren not to become hard-hearted by the deceitfulness of sin.
verse 13

Paul tell them that they have become partakers of Christ -- IOW, they are born again believers -- IF they HOLD FAST the beginning of their assurance FIRM UNTIL THE END.
verse 14

Paul is speaking about someone who provoked God.
verse 15

And WHO provoked God? Those that came out of Egypt WHO SINNED and whose bodies fell in the desert.
verses 16, 17

And do whom did God swear they would not ENTER HIS REST?
He swore this to those who were DISOBEDIENT.
verse 18

They were not able to enter because they did not believe and obey God, as He required.
verse 19

God has always required obedience.
Why is this so scary to some?
Do they want to sin and still be saved??
Yes. This is what I'm beginning to believe.

GodsGrace101 · May 14, 2018

Doug Melven said:
So you are saying Jews are saved by grace alone, but we Gentiles need grace and works?

It's the opposite.
Jews were trying to be saved by following the law, by being perfect - this is what the pharisees were teaching them,,,this is why the pharisees felt so superior to them. This is why Jesus was mad at the Pharisees - for keeping God FAR from His people.
Mathew 23:3-5

After Jesus died the New Covenant went into effect.
We are saved by grace and NOT by works.
Ephesians 2:8
Galatians 2:16

This does not, however, mean that we are no longer required to obey God.
Mathew 5:19

Why is obeying God such a problem??

Call me Nic · May 14, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
It is not self-defining. Why did you claim that ?

Because ever = at any time or always; and lasting = means to endure, except this is in the present continuous tense.
So it does in fact define itself. It's not an opinion, words do that - it's how language works, and the fact the Lord uses this particular description for our salvation defines our life as always enduring, or everlasting.

yeshuaslavejeff said:
If God, the Eternal One Who Created all Life, does not take free will away from those who follow Him until after they sleep/die in this life,
then why do you and others insist that He does ?
You all have to ignore so much of His Word to believe the false osas teachings (and probably (as in the past many did) the worse teachings that go along with it) ,
what is the point in claiming His Word is Truth about anything !??!

This doesn't even make sense. Show me one scripture where it says that a believer who is saved can lose their salvation and be condemned to hell. You have to prove what you believe based upon scripture just as much as I do.

Here's what proves everlasting life as the true, biblical doctrine:

To enter the kingdom of heaven, we must be born again, or in other words, born of God (John 3:3). To be born again, we must believe that Jesus is the Christ and Son of God (1 John 5:1). When we are presented the Gospel, receive and believe it, we call upon the name of the Lord in faith, believing in the heart and confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:10, Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 16:31, Acts of the Apostles 2:21), then we are sealed with the holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13), and we are promised everlasting life by the words of Jesus (John 3:16) and pass from condemnation and death, unto justification and eternal life through Christ (John 5:24, John 3:18, John 10:28-29), whereby we know we are secured in the grace of God by faith having been reconciled to him as the sons of the living God (Romans 5:1-2, John 1:12-13, Romans 5:10-11), and are confident that nothing can separate us from the love of God through Christ (Romans 8:38-39, Hebrews 13:5), because know that God cannot lie when he made the promise that all who receive eternal salvation have an eternal inheritance with him through Jesus Christ (Titus 1:2). For if God unsealed us and made us unborn from him after already having been born, and took away our everlasting life, God would be found a liar, because he promised us salvation through Christ by faith; but God is not a liar, as you make him out to be.

Once saved, always saved.

Doug Melven · May 14, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
John was speaking to believers, but let's put this aside.

Let's try this one:
Hebrews 3:12-19

Paul is speaking to his brethren.
He's telling them they should not FALL AWAY from the Living God.
verse 12

He tells his brethren not to become hard-hearted by the deceitfulness of sin.
verse 13

Paul tell them that they have become partakers of Christ -- IOW, they are born again believers -- IF they HOLD FAST the beginning of their assurance FIRM UNTIL THE END.
verse 14

Paul is speaking about someone who provoked God.
verse 15

And WHO provoked God? Those that came out of Egypt WHO SINNED and whose bodies fell in the desert.
verses 16, 17

And do whom did God swear they would not ENTER HIS REST?
He swore this to those who were DISOBEDIENT.
verse 18

They were not able to enter because they did not believe and obey God, as He required.
verse 19

God has always required obedience.
Why is this so scary to some?
Do they want to sin and still be saved??
Yes. This is what I'm beginning to believe.

What makes you think "Entering His Rest" means going to Heaven when we die?
Entering His rest is applicable to this life.
We rest and let God do His work through us. Galatians 2:20
Resting in Him, we take His yoke upon us. And His work gets done, not us doing the work, He does it through us and we get rewarded for dying to ourselves and letting Him work.
This would be equivalent to the victorious Christian life.
This is what Paul figured out in Romans 8.
There are many believers living today who are living without victory in there life. They are still stuck in Romans 7.
God has conceived His seed in us, shall He not finish His work? Isaiah 66:9
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This is referring to the Day of Redemption, to which we are sealed to.

GodsGrace101 said:
It's the opposite.
Jews were trying to be saved by following the law, by being perfect - this is what the pharisees were teaching them,,,this is why the pharisees felt so superior to them. This is why Jesus was mad at the Pharisees - for keeping God FAR from His people.
Mathew 23:3-5

After Jesus died the New Covenant went into effect.
We are saved by grace and NOT by works.
Ephesians 2:8
Galatians 2:16

This does not, however, mean that we are no longer required to obey God.
Mathew 5:19

Why is obeying God such a problem??

So you are saying Jews are saved by Grace + works and we Gentiles are saved by grace alone?
Obeying God is profitable and we should do it. Because if we do, we will have a lot less heartache in this life.
When I say that you can trust I know what I am talking about, because I have been down that road of disobedience. And it was not fun.
Unless you want to say because I disobeyed I am no longer saved.

LoveofTruth · May 14, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Doug Melven said: ↑
Like I said before and will say again, there are no verses that say the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin.

Do you not understand the challenge here?

DM didn't ask for a whole litany of verses. He clearly said there are "no verses", and this is how you respond?

Your response reveals your total lack of evidence for ANY verse that says what you claim.

The response is simply a cop-out.

He wasn't asking for "too many to list".

EVEN just one verse would refute his challenge. But you couldn't even do that.

I gave many verses already.

Just read post #894 again

even the fact that God used and uses prophets to speak to his people and to reprove them and convict them in the power of the Spirit as they are led by the Spirit should show that God does this. Also the true Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world ( john 1:9) all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light. ALL THINGS included sin and any conviction we have at all about anything. David said God desires truth in the inward part, and in the hidden part he shall make us to know wisdom. This is where the Light of Christ shines. This is also known as the word of God sown as a seed in the heart. This is the word that is like a fire and a hammer and that breaketh the rocks in pieces. This is the word that is sown in believers heart and they are to continue in this word. This word is spirit and life in Christ and this is what we must continue in as Jesus said to be his disciplines. God chastenes every child he receives and this chastening is by his Spirit that convicts the heart and reproves and rebukes us. This is in the power of the Spirit and as God works in wardly in all believers.

Doug Melven · May 14, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
even the fact that God used and uses prophets to speak to his people and to reprove them and convict them in the power of the Spirit as they are led by the Spirit should show that God does this. Also the true Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world ( john 1:9) all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light. ALL THINGS included sin and any conviction we have at all about anything. David said God desires truth in the inward part, and in the hidden part he shall make us to know wisdom. This is where the Light of Christ shines. This is also known as the word of God sown as a seed in the heart. This is the word that is like a fire and a hammer and that breaketh the rocks in pieces. This is the word that is sown in believers heart and they are to continue in this word. This word is spirit and life in Christ and this is what we must continue in as Jesus said to be his disciplines. God chastenes every child he receives and this chastening is by his Spirit that convicts the heart and reproves and rebukes us. This is in the power of the Spirit and as God works in wardly in all believers.

So why are you so completely unable to show one single verse where the Spirit is convicting a believer of sin?
Not a verse where God used someone to point out the sin of another.
And not a verse that shows God's light exposing unbelievers sins.
But a verse that shows the Spirit convicting a believer of sin.
The Spirit convicts believers of righteousness, not sin or unbelief.

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