Changing the Bible Sabbath by presumption alone ?

Marco70 · May 13, 2018

BobRyan said:
Angels have entered heaven many times. And Christ stands with Moses and Elijah - in glory in Matthew 17:3.

2 Kings 2:1 "When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal."

You are misreading 1 John 3:13

The point remains.

No one obviously means no human who has lived on earth

The7thColporteur · May 13, 2018

Marco70 said:
No one obviously means no human who has lived on earth

No, context always dictates.

Enoch, Elijah and Moses entered Heaven, they were all glorified:

Jude 1:9 KJB - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Moses died and was buried by Jesus and his angels, Numbers 20:8-12, 27:13, 31:2; Deuteronomy 4:21,22, 31:2,14,16, 32:51,52, 34:1-8 KJB. Jesus came back and resurrected him, as a type of the Great first resurrection to come, and even as a type of the special resurrection before that, and he was glorified and taken to heaven by Jesus/Michael.

Romans 5:14 KJB - Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Death reigned from Adam to Moses, because Moses was the first person to be permanently resurrected, and taken to Heaven. He is later seen in the NT, glorified, standing with Elijah on the mount of transfiguration [Matthew 16:28, 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16-18 KJB]. So Moses literally did stand in the earthly promised land, several thousand years later. The Jews were all [incorrectly] looking for Elijah to come back from Heaven.

[01] Special Resurrection – Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13 &c KJB

[02] First Great Resurrection – 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; [All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels [the “reapers”] with Him] Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7 KJB

There will even be a resurrection of the wicked to come, and they shall not enter Heaven:

[01] The Second Great Resurrection, Damned, Condemnation, Wicked – John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a; KJB

There are many other verses to consider on resurrection in general, such as Matthew 11:5; Luke 7:22, &c. KJB

Then there are other verses, like these which are related, such as Matthew 8:22; Luke 9:60, &c. KJB

Two have been directly translated without seeing death, and a third group is coming:

[01] Enoch – Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5 KJB

[02] Elijah – 2 Kings 2:1-23 KJB

[03] Those saints alive at the 2nd Advent – 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 KJB

There are many resurrections in the Bible, but of those that have taken place, only a few have not died again and were taken to Heaven:

[01] Elijah raises the Widow of Zarephath's Son – 1 Kings 17:17-24 KJB

[02] Elijah raises the son of the Shunamite Woman – 2 Kings 4:18-37 KJB

[03] A man and Elisha's Bones [14th Miracle of Elisha, double that of Elijah] – 2 Kings 13:20-21 KJB

[04] The Valley of Bones, the Resurrected Army – Ezekiel 37:1-14 KJB

[05] Jesus raises the Widow of Nain's Son – Luke 7:11-17 KJB

[06] Jesus raises Jairus's Daughter – Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56 KJB

[07] Jesus raises Lazarus – John 11:1-47 KJB

[08] Peter raises Tabitha [Dorcas] – Acts 9:36-42 KJB

[09] Paul raises Eutychus – Acts 20:9-12 KJB

[10] Moses – Matthew 16:28, 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; John 11:25; 2 Peter 1:16-18; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9 KJB

[11] Select Group around the locality of Jerusalem – Psalms 68:18; Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:52,53; Ephesians 4:8 KJB

[12] Two Witnesses [these are not people, but the Law and the Testimony, as seen in Revelation 11:3-12 KJB, etc]

[13] Jesus' Resurrection – Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53; John 20:1-31; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 &c KJB

* Some think Paul was raised from the dead, but this is not so, and a simple misreading of the text. More evidence upon request.

Enoch:

Genesis 5:24 KJB - And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 KJB - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Elijah:

2 Kings 2:1 KJB - And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

2 Kings 2:11 KJB - And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2 Kings 2:12 KJB - And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

Elisha knew this event was to take place, and would not leave the side of Elijah for anything short of the event:

2 Kings 2:2 KJB - “... As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. ...”

2 Kings 2:3 KJB - And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2 Kings 2:4 KJB - “... As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. ...”

2 Kings 2:5 KJB - And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

2 Kings 2:6 KJB - “... As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. ...”

2 Kings 2:9 KJB - And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2 Kings 2:10 KJB - And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

2 Kings 2:11 KJB - And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2 Kings 2:12 KJB - And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

For any which may think that Elijah simply went up and was deposited on earth elsewhere later to die, we see by the very scriptures that Elijah was indeed taken to Heaven alive, and Elisha knew that to search on earth for Elijah would be fruitless:

2 Kings 2:16 KJB - And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.

2 Kings 2:17 KJB - And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

2 Kings 2:18 KJB - And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

Further we read, that even the children of the area knew of the taking up of Elijah to Heaven, and mocked at Elisha for not being taken also:

2 Kings 2:23 KJB - And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

We also know of the prophecy given in Malachi 4:

Malachi 4:5 KJB - Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Every Jew also knew of this prophecy, though they did not understand it, and yet they understood that Elijah was in Heaven and even expected him to come back, as we find throughout the New Testament, and some even considered that John the Baptist, or even Jesus, was literally Elijah returned. They were incorrect in this understanding, and some even misunderstood Jesus calling unto God, thinking Jesus was calling to be saved by Elijah's so-called return to earth from Heaven:

Matthew 16:14 KJB - And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matthew 27:47 KJB - Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

Matthew 27:49 KJB - The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

Mark 6:15 KJB - Others said, That it is Elias. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets.

Mark 8:28 KJB - And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.

Mark 15:35 KJB - And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.

Mark 15:36 KJB - And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.

Luke 9:7 KJB - Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead;

Luke 9:8 KJB - And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.

Luke 9:18 KJB - And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?

Luke 9:19 KJB - They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

John 1:21 KJB - And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John 1:25 KJB - And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

Yet, even beyond the actual resurrections of persons who were taken to Heaven, there has already been demonstrated that various prophets also saw Heaven, such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul, etc. and even John the Apostle was told to “come up hither” [Revelation 4:1 KJB].

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

The only person the bible states was taken to ''Heaven'' was Elijah. However, scripture must be brought into line. There is more than one heaven, according to scripture. Paul states he was taken to the third Heaven..

As Christ stated:

No one has ever entered heaven, except the one who came from Heaven, the son of man John3:13

No one means no one

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col1:18

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
1Cor15:20-22

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

It appears Catholicism and sda doctrine is often in line, RC also believe Elijah was taken to THE heaven I believe.

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Heb 11:39&40

The above list includes, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Sammuel and the prophets.

As scripture states. Christ was the first to rise from the dead/firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremecy

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
It appears Catholicism and sda doctrine is often in line

So capital "C", and lowercase "sda" - got it.

Totally non-sequitur. It's called 'reaching', 'digging'.

I was raised in Roman Catholicism. I am now Seventh-day Adventist, by the grace of God and - thank God. The two systems are polar, and yet I can point to the counterfeits of theology in the "ism" of the first, from scripture [KJB].

Marco70 said:
...RC also believe Elijah was taken to THE heaven I believe.

The difference is in the nature of Heaven, not that Elijah went there.

Also, the vast protestant reformation, and Christianity in general teaches that Elijah went to Heaven 2 Kings 2:11 - As they were going... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Which means if you do not, are outside of the greater body on that issue. Repent.

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

It is so simple to understand what scripture plainly states:

NO ONE has ever entered heaven, except the one who came from Heaven, the son of man
John 3:13

NO ONE, obviously means, NO ONE.

Christ is the first to rise from the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremecy.

These should not be hard statements to accept, a child could accept them. But can the scholarly accept them? The wise, those who rely on the little grey cells to learn?

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1Cor:3:20

Follow the written code, rather than the Holy Spirit, and no matter how much of the bible you can quote, you will never understand the truth, for, only the Holy Spirit can lead you into spiritual understanding. And by following after the written code, you reject the Spirits leading, for it can only be one or the other(Rom7:6)_

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
The only person the bible states was taken to ''Heaven'' was Elijah. However, scripture must be brought into line. There is more than one heaven, according to scripture. Paul states he was taken to the third Heaven..

The first Heaven is the atmosphere where the birds fly -

Genesis 1:20 KJB - And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

The second Heaven is the place where the Sun, Moon and stars exist in -

Genesis 1:14 KJB - And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Genesis 1:15 KJB - And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:16 KJB - And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Genesis 1:17 KJB - And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

The third Heaven already existed, which was where God dwells:

2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:4 KJB - How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

As Paul stated:
The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1Cor3:20

The smiley faces give much away, sadly

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

Is paradise Heaven?(The Heaven where God dwells?)

Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

43 Jesus answered him, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:42&43

After Christ's resurrection:

She turned towards him and cried out in Aramaic, ‘Rabboni!’ (which means ‘Teacher’).

17 Jesus said, ‘Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

John20:16&17

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
...The smiley faces give much away, sadly

You seem to not know that the KJB has such punctuation in which when placed into the web, auto converts it. God put it there just for you, and who doesn't love a smile?

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
...Christ is the first to rise from the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremecy. ...

It reads:

Colossians 1:18 KJB - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

It speaks to Christ's preeminence in matters of resurrection. Others were resurrected before Him, but He has the pre-eminence, since His resurrection was foretold before all others. I provided that evidence to you, here it is again:

[01] Elijah raises the Widow of Zarephath's Son – 1 Kings 17:17-24 KJB

[02] Elijah raises the son of the Shunamite Woman – 2 Kings 4:18-37 KJB

[03] A man and Elisha's Bones [14th Miracle of Elisha, double that of Elijah] – 2 Kings 13:20-21 KJB

[04] The Valley of Bones, the Resurrected Army – Ezekiel 37:1-14 KJB

[05] Jesus raises the Widow of Nain's Son – Luke 7:11-17 KJB

[06] Jesus raises Jairus's Daughter – Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56 KJB

[07] Jesus raises Lazarus – John 11:1-47 KJB

[08] Moses – Matthew 16:28, 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; John 11:25; 2 Peter 1:16-18; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9 KJB

All of whom were resurrected in historical time before Jesus. Yet they could only be resurrected because of the Promise of God, in Christ Jesus' resurrection.

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

So, we are to believe Paradise, is the third heaven which is where God dwells.

Jesus told the thief on the cross:

Today, you will be with me in paradise.
Jesus told his disciples he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights, obviously a reference to the Heaven where God dwells with their belief.
Where did Jesus go when he died at Calvary?

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits – 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
1Peter3:18-20

So, those who claim paradise is heaven where God dwells, must, I imagine believe the above place refers to Heaven

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

Oh dear. It seems some confuse people being raised who had died, with people therefore being raised and entering Heaven.

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him
Rom6:9

Christ is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremecy

Did the widow of Zarapeth's son never die again once brought back to life???

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
Is paradise Heaven?(The Heaven where God dwells?)

Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

43 Jesus answered him, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:42&43

After Christ's resurrection:

She turned towards him and cried out in Aramaic, ‘Rabboni!’ (which means ‘Teacher’).

17 Jesus said, ‘Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

John20:16&17

Jesus had not yet ascended to Heaven until after his resurrection. You misunderstood the words of Jesus to the penitent thief.

Luke 23:43 KJB - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus gave the penitent thief a promise that day, that in the resurrection of the just to come, he would be with Jesus then.

Look more closely:

Luke 23:42 KJB - And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Which doesn't take place until his second Advent. We can know that by this prayer:

Matthew 6:10 KJB - Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Luke 11:2 KJB - And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

And also:

Matthew 19:28 KJB - And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31 KJB - When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

“Paradise” is actually the “Garden of God” in “the city” “of God”, wherein is “the Throne of God” in the “third Heaven”, where God the Father rules, from where Jesus came from and from which Lucifer was cast out of, by scripture:

Luke 23:43 Greek και ειπεν αυτω ο ιησους αμην λεγω σοι σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 12:1

2 Corinthians 12:2 Greek οιδα ανθρωπον εν χριστω προ ετων δεκατεσσαρων ειτε εν σωματι ουκ οιδα ειτε εκτος του σωματος ουκ οιδα ο θεος οιδεν αρπαγεντα τον τοιουτον εως τριτου ουρανου

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) 2 Corinthians 12:3

2 Corinthians 12:4 Greek οτι ηρπαγη εις τον παραδεισον και ηκουσεν αρρητα ρηματα α ουκ εξον ανθρωπω λαλησαι

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:4

Revelation 2:7 Greek ο εχων ους ακουσατω τι το πνευμα λεγει ταις εκκλησιαις τω νικωντι δωσω αυτω φαγειν εκ του ξυλου της ζωης ο εστιν εν μεσω του παραδεισου του θεου

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2

Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14

Ezekiel 28:13 LXX ἐν τῇ τρυφῇ τοῦ παραδείσου τοῦ θεοῦ ἐγενήθης· πᾶν λίθον χρηστὸν ἐνδέδεσαι, σάρδιον καὶ τοπάζιον καὶ σμάραγδον καὶ ἄνθρακα καὶ σάπφειρον καὶ ἴασπιν καὶ ἀργύριον καὶ χρυσίον καὶ λιγύριον καὶ ἀχάτην καὶ ἀμέθυστον καὶ χρυσόλιθον καὶ βηρύλλιον καὶ ὀνύχιον, καὶ χρυσίου ἐνέπλησας τοὺς θησαυρούς σου καὶ τὰς ἀποθήκας σου ἐν σοὶ ἀφ᾿ ἧς ἡμέρας ἐκτίσθης σύ.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13

Ezekiel 31:9 LXX διὰ τὸ πλῆθος τῶν κλάδων αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐζήλωσεν αὐτὸν τὰ ξύλα τοῦ παραδείσου τῆς τρυφῆς τοῦ θεοῦ.

I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. Ezekiel 31:9

Isaiah 51:3 LXX καὶ σὲ νῦν παρακαλέσω, Σιων, καὶ παρεκάλεσα πάντα τὰ ἔρημα αὐτῆς καὶ θήσω τὰ ἔρημα αὐτῆς ὡς παράδεισον κυρίου· εὐφροσύνην καὶ ἀγαλλίαμα εὑρήσουσιν ἐν αὐτῇ, ἐξομολόγησιν καὶ φωνὴν αἰνέσεως.

For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody. Isaiah 51:3

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

Jesus said to the thief:

TODAY(TODAY) you will be with me in paradise.

Beware of those who cram their posts full with as much of the letter as they can do so, and quote the greek alongside it. The result is normally seeking to override the plain words of the bible:

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1Cor3:20

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him
Rom6:9

Christ is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremecy

Did the widow of Zarapeth's son never die again once brought back to life???

This text speaks to Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:9 KJB - Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

It doesn't speak to the widow's son.

Moses was permenantly resurrected, and glorified, taken to Heaven and seen in the NT, which you seem to conveniently have not mentioned.

The7thColporteur · May 14, 2018

Marco70 said:
Jesus said to the thief:

TODAY(TODAY) ...

Yep, He sure told that penitent thief that very day, about a future resurrection and coming Kingdom when Jesus returns, which is how people who have died get to Heaven [John 14:1-3 KJB] in general [Moses excepted and the firstfruits; they being types].

Marco70 · May 14, 2018

Moses was not taken to Heaven, according to Christ. For he plainly stated:

No one has ever entered Heaven, except the one who came from Heaven, the son of man
John3:13

Col1:18 refers to Jesus being the firstborn to be raised from the dead, in respect ofr death can no longer have mastery over you(Col1:18&rom6:9)

If people died and went to Heaven to dwell with God in OT times, they could not die again, therefore they preceeded Christ as being the first to rise from the dead.

I tire of this conversation, it is hardly stimulating.

Quoting scripture to try and overturn the plain words of Christ is being led of the little grey cells, nothing more

Changing the Bible Sabbath by presumption alone ?

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Well-Known Member

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