Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

DaveM · May 13, 2018

exactly thats why those that say faith only with no change of the heart and you still have salvation I do agree with, if you have real faith you will see real change yes it might be a little at a time but you will see change.

Doug Melven · May 13, 2018

Bible2+ said:
No, God/Jesus Christ is still our Savior. For it is only by our continuing to abide in Him that we are able to believe, and do, the right things (Hebrews 12:2, John 15:4-5, Philippians 2:12-13). On our own, there is no way that we can ever save ourselves from hell. Also, Jesus is both our Savior and our King, our Lord: His name "Jesus", which means "YHWH the Savior" (cf. Isaiah 43:11), points to His role as our Savior (Matthew 1:21). And His title of the "Christ", which means the "Anointed" (cf. 2 Samuel 12:7), points to His role as our King (Mark 15:32), our Lord (2 Peter 1:11).

You like to say that you are depending on Him, but you are depending on yourself to remain dependent.
Philippians 2 says we need to work out our own salvation, how can we work out something we don't possess?
God gave us salvation, Christ in us ( Colossians 1:27 ) we need to get that priceless treasure that is in our spirit and out into our soul and body in order to experience all the blessings God has for us.
Christ being in us will not change as He promised He would never leave us or forsake us. This verse is not conditional as you keep trying to say. If it was conditional, no one could be saved because no one can meet God's perfect conditions.

Bible2+ said:
Only so long as we don't forsake Him (2 Timothy 2:12b, Hebrews 6:4-8).

You should really study just how holy God is. If He were to have conditions besides acceptance of Him, no one could keep them due to God being so holy. He is perfect.

Bible2+ said:
Only so long as we continue to believe (John 3:36b) and not sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Once you are a believer, you have been born-again, brought out of the kingdom of darkness and brought into His Kingdom of glorious light.
You have been bought with a price, the blood of Jesus, and you are not your own. You no longer have a choice to go back to the old Kingdom.
When you were in the Kingdom of darkness and you made the choice to be His child, He took you from that kingdom. You could not have gone from one kingdom to the other, no, God brought you over. There is no going back, you belong to Him now, like it or not.

FreeGrace2 said:
There are NO verses in the Bible that teach loss of salvation.

Through the exercise of eisegesis there are several verses that show we can lose it.

Doug Melven · May 13, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
and we have this verse as well

"8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"(John 16:8 KJV)

The word "reprove" in Greek means to convince, to confute, to rebuke. So yes scripture does teach this all over and so I encourage you to learn from this verse

None of those other verses say the Spirit convicts believers of sin.
They are all about convicting sinners of sin, not believers.
And I did tell you that the verse in John 16 was not about convicting believers of sin. I will show you why.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

In verse 8 Jesus says the Spirit is going to convict of three things.
Verse 9 says of sin because they do not believe. So this is not talking about believers. Because believers believe.
Verse 10 says that He will convict of righteousness. This is talking about the believer, we are righteous and need to be convinced of righteousness because it doesn't come natural.
Verse 11 says of Judgment, the devil is being judged.

Nowhere in that passage does it say the Spirit will convict a believer of sin.

DaveM said:
Luke 20:35
But those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage,

I find it very interesting that Jesus says we must be worthy here in scripture,

Absolutely we must be worthy. Who makes us worthy? Not us, only God can make us worthy, and if He made us worthy who are we to say different?

GodsGrace101 said:
You continue to say that you don't know where it says that if we ask for forgiveness we are forgiven.

I don't understand your point...
Do you believe we are NOT forgiven if we ask forgiveness?
What exactly is it that you believe??

Why would we ask for something we possess?
We are forgiven.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
I proved that fruits are necessary for salvation and again you say it isn’t.

Though you keep saying that, you haven't done that.

Then I said:
"I think you are confused about the difference between making a claim and proving something. You've done no such thing as prove your opinion."

Then explain how someone can have eternal life if they don’t produce fruit without contradicting

I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

John 15:1-6

Easy as pie. Jesus was speaking about fruit bearing, not how to stay saved, or worse, how to get saved. iow, fruit bearing neither leads to salvation, nor maintains salvation.

Let’s conquer these one at a time so you can prove me wrong by actually addressing the scriptures I’ve posted instead of making claims with no evidence to support them.

What you continue to miss is that John 10:28 has already done that.

Jesus was clear about the FACT that recipients (those He gives eternal life) shall never perish.

So, once given eternal life, that recipient shall never perish.

This clearly refutes your claims.

There are no verses that undoes John 10:28, in spite of the fact that you seem to think otherwise.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
I proved that people who willfully sin will undoubtedly not recieve salvation and will burn in the lake of fire and yet again you say they will be saved.

No, you have made that claim but that is no proof.

Then please explain how people who willfully sin will be saved without contradicting these verses.

All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Revelation 21:7-8

This list of sins were ALL paid for at the cross when Jesus died for them.

So, NO sin sends anyone to hell. Only failure to have the gift of eternal life, which we all know is given on the basis of believing in Christ for it.

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.

OK, no argument. But this has nothing to do with the FACT that those given the gift of eternal life shall never perish.

Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

Right. But you fail to properly understand this passage or the other 2 parallel passages in 1 Cor 6 and Eph 5.

To "not inherit the kingdom" is equivalent to "having no inheritance in the kingdom" from Eph 5:5. Otherwise, all 3 passages say basically the same thing.

Do you not understand that one can be IN the kingdom yet have NO inheritance there?

We see the principle in 2 Tim 2:12. If we endure (in the faith) we WILL reign with Christ. This is an inheritance IN the kingdom. But if we deny (fail to endure) Him, He will deny us. Deny us what? Reigning with Him IN the kingdom.

Now consider Rom 8:17. As children of God we are heirs with God. But we are also "co-heirs with Christ, IF INDEED, we share in His sufferings (endure in the faith) so that we will share in His glory (reigning with Him).

But, go ahead and explain how my explanation of 2 Tim 2:12 with Rom 8:17 is wrong, and what both verses actually teach, if you disagree with my explanation.

But this is an example of how you misunderstand verses and then conclude wrongly that the verse teaches loss of salvation even though John 10:28 does not permit such a view.

You're ignoring the absolutely clear verse about eternal security in favor of verses that are absolutely NOT saying anything about loss of salvation.

As I've just now shown by explaining what Gal 5:19-21 is about.

All backed up with Scriptural examples to prove my point.

So, now you've got to address the verses I've shared to prove me wrong.

Don't just go to more of your verses. Show me how and why I'm wrong about the verses I shared.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
It’s included in verse 27

You just keep reading both verses WRONGLY. There is NO CONDITION for never perishing in v.27.

If continuing to follow Him were a condition, this is how v.28 would look:

"I give them eternal life, and IF THEY CONTINUE TO FOLLOW ME, they shall never perish."

Or this:

"I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO FOLLOW ME, they shall never perish."

That's what a condition looks like: preceded with either "IF..." or "AS LONG AS..."

I sincerely hope this helps you in better discerning the Word.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
“And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3:36

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me,”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:27-28

Both of these passages say the exact same thing. Those who believe and obey, follow Jesus’ teachings will receive eternal life.

I'm truly sorry to have to inform you of your gross error. There are no conditions in v.28 that recipients must meet in order to never perish.

The words are unmistakable. By the FACT of having eternal life, one will never perish.

And that's from the MOMENT one is given eternal life (when they are saved).

Or, eternal security.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

DaveM said:
one thing scriptures says clearly if you are practicing sin such as sexual immortality you aint getting in heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

See post #845 for my explanation that includes the 2 other parallel passages.

Basically, if your opening statement were true, then Christ could NOT have died for every sin. But He did die for every sin. Read Heb 9-10 and you'll see that He did.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

DaveM said:
exactly thats why those that say faith only with no change of the heart and you still have salvation I do agree with, if you have real faith you will see real change yes it might be a little at a time but you will see change.

This view is rather naive. Billy Graham was mentored as a new evangelist by Charles Templeton, and they roomed together as they travelled through Europe in the late 40's, giving crusades.

But, when he considered the claims of evolutionists about the old age of the earth, he couldn't reconcile that with the claims of a young earth. So his faith failed and he left the faith.

The sad part was that young earth creation isn't biblical. There is an indeterminate time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. So, in fact, the rest of Genesis 1 is about a restoration of God's earth, not creation of it.

If he had been properly educated from the original languages, he would have had no problem with an old earth, which does NO damage to Genesis 1, and in fact, keeps in line with the actual Hebrew words.

But that is for a difrerent thread in a different subforum.

Let's not derail this one.

FreeGrace2 · May 13, 2018

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
There are NO verses in the Bible that teach loss of salvation.

Doug Melven said:
Through the exercise of eisegesis there are several verses that show we can lose it.

Right! That's the key: eisegesis, not exegesis.

GodsGrace101 · May 13, 2018

Doug Melven said:
There are no verses that say asking for forgiveness gets us forgiveness.
You cite 4 passages that do not say anything about asking.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Acts 3:19 says to be converted and our sins will be blotted out.
Matthew 6:14 says only if we forgive others will we be forgiven.
Paul says in Colossians 3:13-14 that we are to forgive as we have been forgiven.
Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9 both say to confess. The greek word for confess is homologia which means to say the same thing.
Not one verse says to ask.

Hebrews 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

Then we have this promise from God.
Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

I just don't see how you are going to be able to attach conditions to this.

I said this in response to your verses in 1 John 3 saying PRACTICE
A one time act in no way can be translated to practice. Maybe through excessive use of eisegesis it could.
G4160 is poieo, a onetime act. This is used in 1 John 3. G4238 which means to practice is not used.
I got saved October 15, 1981. Went to jail on March 3, 2008.
From there I went to prison.
While sitting in jail I was reading a Bible and God told me it was time to get back up again and start serving Him again. A conversation with God ensued and He reminded me of Philippians 4:13.
I had walked away because I couldn't deal with me being such a hypocrite. I led an up and down Christian life.
Every Sunday I would be at the altar rededicating my life because of the things I had done during the week.
Finally, I told God if I fell I would not get back up again. I fell and stayed down for 22 years.
According to the doctrine you preach I cannot be saved.
I was drunk for years, I did drugs, I got addicted to inappropriate content, that became kiddie inappropriate content and that's why I went to prison.
It was about 10 years ago I rededicated my life to Christ.
I have sinned several times since then, but now I know what I didn't know then: God accepts me, considers me beloved even when I sin. I know He is not mad at me ever.
I will never have to suffer His wrath.
For I have not been appointed to wrath.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I really fail to understand what we're debating here.
As to 1 John 3:9, it is translated to PRACTICE sinning.
Poieo is correct, as you stated - but it does not mean one time.
Please check this out.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 13, 2018

EternallyKeptByJesus said:
I am amazed at how anyone can think salvation is insecure.

Really?
When someone reads the Old Testament and the New Testament
without prejudice leanings
and without tradition of demons and of men
and seeks the Truth from the ONLY ONE WHO can REVEAL the TRUTH of Salvation,

The Truth is known, and most people don't make it. (they aren't saved, period).

Multitudes 'believe' the lie, according to and as written in GOD'S WORD, and DON'T FIND OUT
until
JUDGMENT DAY they were completely deceived.

Look around you every day. Realize most people seen on earth are doomed, under a death sentence , and don't turn to God to be saved.
Others are tricked, multitudes are tricked into thinking they have it made !

Read the Bible and Believe what God Says - then you won't be so amazed that "salvation" is not nearly so "secure" as you thought in the past .

Doug Melven · May 13, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
I really fail to understand what we're debating here.
As to 1 John 3:9, it is translated to PRACTICE sinning.
Poieo is correct, as you stated - but it does not mean one time.
Please check this out.

You are saying we need to ask to be forgiven. Implication is if we don't ask, we are not forgiven.
I say we are forgiven without asking, because when I became His child He forgave me all of my sins.
I accepted Jesus' payment for my sins, and when Jesus made payment, I was not even born yet.
God promised to those who are in Christ, that He will not impute sin to us.
As to the word poieo being translated as practice, some versions do, some reliable ones don't.

1 John 3:9 - Bible Gateway
This is the word that is not used, which means to practice.
Strong's No.: G4238
Greek: πράσσω
Transliteration: prassō
Pronunciation: pras'-so
Definition:A primary verb; to practise that is perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160 which properly refers to a single act); by implication to executeaccomplish etc.; specifically to collect(dues) fare (personally): - commit deeds do exact keep require use arts.

G4160 is poieo which is the word that is used in 1 John 3.

In post 851 you wanted me to check something, but didn't provide anything to check.
Unless you are referring to what is in your signature.
Love is bigger than anything in its way.

GodsGrace101 · May 13, 2018

Doug Melven said:
Why would we ask for something we possess?
We are forgiven.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

So, you're saying we don't need to ask forgiveness for sins we commit because Jesus already forgave them and we already possess forgiveness.

This is not a matter of loss of salvation so I hesitate to debate it. Whatever you believe, you are saved. I know that John said we are to ask forgiveness of our sins and he spent over 3 years with Jesus and knew what Jesus taught. In Mathew 28:20 Jesus tells the apostles to go to all the nations and tell people what He taught ---

I would like to post the following links...

At the same time, 1 John 1:9 does indicate that somehow forgiveness is dependent on our confessing our sins to God. How does this work if all of our sins are forgiven the moment we receive Christ as Savior? It seems that what the apostle John is describing here is “relational” forgiveness. All of our sins are forgiven “positionally” the moment we receive Christ as Savior. This positional forgiveness guarantees our salvation and promise of an eternal home in heaven. When we stand before God after death, God will not deny us entrance into heaven because of our sins. That is positional forgiveness. The concept of relational forgiveness is based on the fact that when we sin, we offend God and grieve His Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). While God has ultimately forgiven us of the sins we commit, they still result in a blocking or hindrance in our relationship with God. A young boy who sins against his father is not cast out of the family. A godly father will forgive his children unconditionally. At the same time, a good relationship between father and son cannot be achieved until the relationship is restored. This can only occur when a child confesses his mistakes to his father and apologizes. That is why we confess our sins to God—not to maintain our salvation, but to bring ourselves back into close fellowship with the God who loves us and has already forgiven us.

source: Do Christians have to keep asking for forgiveness for their sins?

Do we need to ask forgiveness of

This is also a very good link. I hope you read it...

http://www.moorematt.org/if-god-has-already-forgiven-us-why-should-we-keep-asking-for-forgiveness/

I think it would be nice for us to ask God to forgive us when we know we have sinned. Don't we ask our friends for forgiveness?

Why shouldn't we be nice enough to ask God, who died for us?
Asking is also a sign that we love Him and are sorry for our sins.

GodsGrace101 · May 13, 2018

Doug Melven said:
You are saying we need to ask to be forgiven. Implication is if we don't ask, we are not forgiven.
I say we are forgiven without asking, because when I became His child He forgave me all of my sins.
I accepted Jesus' payment for my sins, and when Jesus made payment, I was not even born yet.
God promised to those who are in Christ, that He will not impute sin to us.
As to the word poieo being translated as practice, some versions do, some reliable ones don't.

1 John 3:9 - Bible Gateway
This is the word that is not used, which means to practice.
Strong's No.: G4238
Greek: πράσσω
Transliteration: prassō
Pronunciation: pras'-so
Definition:A primary verb; to practise that is perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160 which properly refers to a single act); by implication to executeaccomplish etc.; specifically to collect(dues) fare (personally): - commit deeds do exact keep require use arts.

G4160 is poieo which is the word that is used in 1 John 3.

In post 851 you wanted me to check something, but didn't provide anything to check.
Unless you are referring to what is in your signature.
Love is bigger than anything in its way.

I understand now DM. I didn't before, sorry.
In post 851 I was just asking you to check out the Greek word Poieo --- but it's pretty irrelevant at this point.

As long as we are protected by Jesus, following Him and are His disciple, we will be forgiven for sins even if we forget to ask forgiveness, or don't ask forgiveness.

I myself do ask and am sorry when I fail.
It doesn't cost anything and it keeps the relationship more honest.

I just sent you a post about this.
It's not something I particularly feel needs to be debated...
I think we should do what John said in 1 John 1:9.

BNR32FAN · May 13, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Though you keep saying that, you haven't done that.

Then I said:
"I think you are confused about the difference between making a claim and proving something. You've done no such thing as prove your opinion."

Easy as pie. Jesus was speaking about fruit bearing, not how to stay saved, or worse, how to get saved. iow, fruit bearing neither leads to salvation, nor maintains salvation.

What you continue to miss is that John 10:28 has already done that.

Jesus was clear about the FACT that recipients (those He gives eternal life) shall never perish.

So, once given eternal life, that recipient shall never perish.

This clearly refutes your claims.

There are no verses that undoes John 10:28, in spite of the fact that you seem to think otherwise.

You didn’t explain the consequences for not producing fruit. Can you please elaborate on how someone can be cut off from Christ by not producing fruit and be “thrown away like a useless branch and withers, Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned” and yet still be saved?

BNR32FAN · May 13, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I'm truly sorry to have to inform you of your gross error. There are no conditions in v.28 that recipients must meet in order to never perish.

The words are unmistakable. By the FACT of having eternal life, one will never perish.

And that's from the MOMENT one is given eternal life (when they are saved).

Or, eternal security.

You didn’t explain John 3:36

LoveofTruth · May 13, 2018

Doug Melven said:
None of those other verses say the Spirit convicts believers of sin.
They are all about convicting sinners of sin, not believers.
And I did tell you that the verse in John 16 was not about convicting believers of sin. I will show you why.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

In verse 8 Jesus says the Spirit is going to convict of three things.
Verse 9 says of sin because they do not believe. So this is not talking about believers. Because believers believe.
Verse 10 says that He will convict of righteousness. This is talking about the believer, we are righteous and need to be convinced of righteousness because it doesn't come natural.
Verse 11 says of Judgment, the devil is being judged.

Nowhere in that passage does it say the Spirit will convict a believer of sin.

Absolutely we must be worthy. Who makes us worthy? Not us, only God can make us worthy, and if He made us worthy who are we to say different?
Why would we ask for something we possess?
We are forgiven.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

I don’t know what your trying to say but many of the roses I showed can apply to a person who was once in Christ then went away from faith and sinned . Consider some more Spirit led verses showing the Spirit working to convince, convict, reprove and warn of sin among believers

2 Corinthians 12 - 20. For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 21. And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. “

Revelation 2 - 1. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; ...4. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

Etc

Doug Melven · May 13, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
That is why we confess our sins to God—not to maintain our salvation, but to bring ourselves back into close fellowship with the God who loves us and has already forgiven us.

This from your earlier post about 1 John 1:9
You say you believe this, why did you ever bring it up in this thread?

GodsGrace101 said:
Why shouldn't we be nice enough to ask God, who died for us?
Asking is also a sign that we love Him and are sorry for our sins.

Every time I sin I thank God He has forgiven me for that sin.
Most people do not realize when they say they are required to ask for forgiveness that they are telling there heart that they are not forgiven. They say they know they are already forgiven, but when they have this question they begin to doubt they are already forgiven.
This leads to all kinds of problems.
Doctrinal errors such as the one in this thread where people say we are not eternally saved unless we perform something or don't sin or something else they say we have to do.
Best thing to do is have gratitude that you are forgiven.

Those who don't know that they are secure in Christ will always have doubts about God's love for them.
Those who know they are forgiven much, love much. Luke 7:40-50

You guys like to say that you know you are secure in Christ because of your obedience.
I know I am secure in Christ because of Jesus' obedience.

Doug Melven · May 13, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
1 Corinthians 14:24
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:"

.This is talking about an unbeliever, check the context.

LoveofTruth said:
Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers"

So by our lives we can show the gainsayers that they are wrong.

LoveofTruth said:
Acts 18:28
For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ."

Not referring to believers being convinced of anything.

LoveofTruth said:
James 2:9
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

This is the purpose of the law, to expose sin. Nothing here about the Spirit convicting believers of sin.

LoveofTruth said:
Jude 1:15
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him

I don't see anything here about the Spirit convicting believers of sin.

LoveofTruth said:
Ephesians 5:13
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

This is why unbelievers don't like the light.

LoveofTruth said:
John 8:46
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?"

Not sure why you included this verse. Of course Jesus was sinless.

LoveofTruth said:
2 Corinthians 12 - 20. For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 21. And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. “

Where does this verse say anything about the Spirit convicting the believers of sin? I just see Paul being sad.

LoveofTruth said:
Revelation 2 - 1. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; ...4. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

Jesus talking to a church and if they didn't repent they wouldn't be a church anymore.
Not losing there salvation.
Like I said before and will say again, there are no verses that say the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin.
There are 3 things that will convict us of sin.
Our conscience, we see this in John 8 where the Pharisees were convicted by there own conscience.
The law convicts of sin. John 5:45
Then we have the Accuser of the brethren.

The Holy Spirit is a Comforter to believers.
A convicter to unbelievers.

Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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Christ builds His church from within us

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