So.....was Paul wrong as quoted in 1 Corinthians 15:51?

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Piper is wrong.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall
[1]the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear
[2] the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And
[3] he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verse 33 goes with verse 32, seeing the earlier events will let you know the second coming is near.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
That means all the things he described would happen in the one specific generation, the same generation that sees the abomination of desolation during the tribulation will also see Christ return. Any attempt to cut the second coming from the other things described is to alter the verse and change what Christ said. People alter the verse to force AD70 into the discourse when it was not part of it.
Since 1, 2 and 3 have not literally happened the second coming has not yet happened. How do we reconcile vss. 29-31 with vs. 34? The Greek word αυτη/aute, translated "this" in vs. 34 can also be translated "that." "that generation, which sees all the signs. shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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This was a question asked of John Piper....here:
"In the New Testament we find repeated evidence of people whom we would call inspired who evidently believed — and sometimes claimed — that Jesus would come back soon, even during the writer’s own lifetime. Examples would be 1 Peter 4:7;Matthew 24:34; 26:64; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17; and1 Corinthians 15:51. How can we still consider them authoritative while discarding modern-day messengers whose prophecies don’t materialize? I am a bit uneasy that at some stage our kids will tell us that Paul was wrong about1 Corinthians 15:51 and so he’s not to be taken seriously. Do you have any suggestions as to how to deal with this tension?”~Jesus Said He’d Return Soon, So Where Is He?

I disagree with Piper's answer....which was (the "coming" mentioned in these passages in Matthew are NOT about His second coming):

"First, sometimes the events that are expected soon are not the very coming of Jesus, but things leading up to the coming of Jesus. Here’s an example: Matthew 24:33, “So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” Next verse, and this is the problem verse for a lot of people: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).


Now, notice carefully the phrase, “all these things” that are going to take place within a generation, does not include the actual coming of the Lord, because in the previous verse it says, “When you see all these things,” the very phrase of verse 34 used in verse 33, “You know that he is near,” not already here. The fact that these things will happen within a generation, these preparations for his coming, does not mean that his coming would happen in a generation".~John Piper
Well, we might start with the fact that the phrase “second coming” is extra Biblical. Does not exist in the NT.
 
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ewq1938

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Well, we might start with the fact that the phrase “second coming” is extra Biblical. Does not exist in the NT.


It's biblical.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Both denote a coming after the first coming, a second coming.
 
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corinth77777

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This was a question asked of John Piper....here:
"In the New Testament we find repeated evidence of people whom we would call inspired who evidently believed — and sometimes claimed — that Jesus would come back soon, even during the writer’s own lifetime. Examples would be 1 Peter 4:7;Matthew 24:34; 26:64; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17; and1 Corinthians 15:51. How can we still consider them authoritative while discarding modern-day messengers whose prophecies don’t materialize? I am a bit uneasy that at some stage our kids will tell us that Paul was wrong about1 Corinthians 15:51 and so he’s not to be taken seriously. Do you have any suggestions as to how to deal with this tension?”~Jesus Said He’d Return Soon, So Where Is He?

I disagree with Piper's answer....which was (the "coming" mentioned in these passages in Matthew are NOT about His second coming):

"First, sometimes the events that are expected soon are not the very coming of Jesus, but things leading up to the coming of Jesus. Here’s an example: Matthew 24:33, “So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” Next verse, and this is the problem verse for a lot of people: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).


Now, notice carefully the phrase, “all these things” that are going to take place within a generation, does not include the actual coming of the Lord, because in the previous verse it says, “When you see all these things,” the very phrase of verse 34 used in verse 33, “You know that he is near,” not already here. The fact that these things will happen within a generation, these preparations for his coming, does not mean that his coming would happen in a generation".~John Piper

"but do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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It's biblical.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Both denote a coming after the first coming, a second coming.
Nope sorry, the phrase does not exist in the Bible.
Hebrews 9:28 is not the Greek word for coming but this word:
3708. horaó
Strong's Concordance
horaó: to see, perceive, attend to
Original Word: ὁράω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horaó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-ah'-o)
Short Definition: I see, look upon, experience
Definition: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.
HELPS Word-studies
3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

[The aorist form (eidon), is discussed at 1492 /eídō, "see." The future tense, and middle-passive form, are discussed under 3700 /optánomai, "see."]

As far as the verse you quoted in John. The text along with all the other texts about the coming of the Lord stand on their own without any extra Biblical alterations needed. There is no need to alter the texts by placing the word “second” before the word coming.
Just leave the coming of the Lord, the Day of the Lord alone and let people figure out what events those days when the Lord comes are referring on their own. That phrase highjacks every reference to the coming of the Lord and does not allow Gods saints develope a scriptural understanding of prophecy that was to be fulfilled after most of the NT was written.
 
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ewq1938

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Nope sorry, the phrase does not exist in the Bible..

Don't need the exact phrase because the meaning is very biblical as I have already proven. How many comings of Christ do you think there are??
 
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Philip_B

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John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also.​

The notion of eschatology was deeply rooted in the ancient culture, Jews, Samaritans and so it was only natural that it would also be part of the Christian experience, and is not insignificant in the Creed of the Council of Constantinople.

And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)​

It is also clear that many of the earliest Christians had a view of eschatology that was very immanent, as reflected in a number of the Pauline Epistles and no doubt also in the difficult passages like Mark 13 and the synoptic equivalents.

There is no doubt that this immanent quality of the early church eschatology helped infuse a sense of urgency to the message of the Gospel. One of the things that has perhaps changed for us is our thinking about time. For the ancients there was a sense in which time had a beginning, a duration and an end. For us we have history, the present moment and the future. We see things in relation to the present moment everything on the timeline stretching infinitely back and forward.

In a sense each of us has a moment of eschatology in our own passing, when all that is temporal for us collides with all that is eternal. For many also the sacrament of Baptism in also eschatological, in that it too represent the meeting of time and eternity, born the the water, born from above. So to in the Eucharist as we break the bread of life and know that Christ is there, in the midst of us.

So I believe, not that Paul was wrong, but that we have rethought our eschatology.
 
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Randy777

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I would state that Rev 11 is a sign that cant be mistaken. 1260 days of testimony in Jerusalem by two witnesses as I read. The resurrection Jesus spoke is on the last day and is the resurrection of us all -from the ends of the heavens.

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
 
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Randy777

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This was a question asked of John Piper....here:
"In the New Testament we find repeated evidence of people whom we would call inspired who evidently believed — and sometimes claimed — that Jesus would come back soon, even during the writer’s own lifetime. Examples would be 1 Peter 4:7;Matthew 24:34; 26:64; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17; and1 Corinthians 15:51. How can we still consider them authoritative while discarding modern-day messengers whose prophecies don’t materialize? I am a bit uneasy that at some stage our kids will tell us that Paul was wrong about1 Corinthians 15:51 and so he’s not to be taken seriously. Do you have any suggestions as to how to deal with this tension?”~Jesus Said He’d Return Soon, So Where Is He?

I disagree with Piper's answer....which was (the "coming" mentioned in these passages in Matthew are NOT about His second coming):

"First, sometimes the events that are expected soon are not the very coming of Jesus, but things leading up to the coming of Jesus. Here’s an example: Matthew 24:33, “So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” Next verse, and this is the problem verse for a lot of people: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).


Now, notice carefully the phrase, “all these things” that are going to take place within a generation, does not include the actual coming of the Lord, because in the previous verse it says, “When you see all these things,” the very phrase of verse 34 used in verse 33, “You know that he is near,” not already here. The fact that these things will happen within a generation, these preparations for his coming, does not mean that his coming would happen in a generation".~John Piper
At the sounding of the 7th trump (last trump) the kingdom of this world shall become the kingdom of God and His Christ. It is of note that the beast (angel of the abyss) is released from imprisonment at the sounding of the 5th trump.
 
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dqhall

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This was a question asked of John Piper....here:
"In the New Testament we find repeated evidence of people whom we would call inspired who evidently believed — and sometimes claimed — that Jesus would come back soon, even during the writer’s own lifetime. Examples would be 1 Peter 4:7;Matthew 24:34; 26:64; 1 Corinthians 10:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17; and1 Corinthians 15:51. How can we still consider them authoritative while discarding modern-day messengers whose prophecies don’t materialize? I am a bit uneasy that at some stage our kids will tell us that Paul was wrong about1 Corinthians 15:51 and so he’s not to be taken seriously. Do you have any suggestions as to how to deal with this tension?”~Jesus Said He’d Return Soon, So Where Is He?

I disagree with Piper's answer....which was (the "coming" mentioned in these passages in Matthew are NOT about His second coming):

"First, sometimes the events that are expected soon are not the very coming of Jesus, but things leading up to the coming of Jesus. Here’s an example: Matthew 24:33, “So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.” Next verse, and this is the problem verse for a lot of people: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34).


Now, notice carefully the phrase, “all these things” that are going to take place within a generation, does not include the actual coming of the Lord, because in the previous verse it says, “When you see all these things,” the very phrase of verse 34 used in verse 33, “You know that he is near,” not already here. The fact that these things will happen within a generation, these preparations for his coming, does not mean that his coming would happen in a generation".~John Piper
Jesus did not know the hour of the day of judgement and fulfillment of all these things:
Matthew 24:36 "But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

How does it disturb you that Peter or Paul did not know the day or the hour? If the the righteous dead sleep, they have not passed away, but await the coming of the Lord.
 
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Randy777

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Well, we might start with the fact that the phrase “second coming” is extra Biblical. Does not exist in the NT.
So the many language experts who translated our bibles didn't seek your expertise. Perhaps than you can give us the full translation of hebrews 9:28 as you read from the original language -not just eliminating the word second but the meaning of the whole verse please.

even the YLT has the word second
so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

It doesn't state he will come again and again and if He comes again that would be a 2nd time and the final time. The translations capture that meaning and understanding. And His coming again would complete the Fathers command in psalm 110:1 "until" and Jesus statement He would raise us up on the last day as that is His Fathers will.

Furthermore a 1st century resurrection is not a possible answer and the mount of olives has not been split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies as in Zech 14. That is still a future event. Those invading armies are destroyed by God not mankind. Just as Jesus stated in Rev 16:15-16 He comes like a thief and destroys the armies of the beast (visible and invisible)

The timing of the resurrection is at the end of tribulation as is Daniel 12:1 at that time...Jesus said he would send out His angels and Michael is a angel and commander of other angels He reports to His Lord and Our Lord for he is also a fellow servant with us of Jesus like the other angels.

As the mighty and awesome angel described in Rev testified to John
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."
 
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seeking.IAM

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Let's not be too tough on Paul. Every generation since the crucifixion has had those who thought Christ will return during their lifetime. There are even those here on CF who are counting the signs they think fulfill prophecy and have similar predictions. Paul was inspired, yes, but he also was human, a human with hope.
 
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Acts2:38

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The Kingdom has not yet come is Christ's point and my point in quoting him. We are still waiting for it.

Yes, I know that was your point. That's why I responded with scriptural evidence.

The kingdom did come already.
Colossians chpt 1
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

If the kingdom has not come yet, then please tell me to which kingdom are you translated into?

Revelation 1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

To which kingdom is John in, who states that he is brother and companion with the rest of the Christians?

Matthew 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

We all know Peter is dead now. Did Jesus lie to Peter?
Peter was the one to have the keys to the kingdom. What do you do with keys?
What was Peter doing in Acts 2 and Acts 10? Do you think Peter used the keys then? If not, when? After all Jesus promised Peter would do this.
Do you know the Greek word for church?

Lastly, did you know Jesus gave the first century people a time frame for the kingdom?

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

So unless there are 2,000 year old people walking about, the kingdom is here.
 
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Hawkins

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Lastly, did you know Jesus gave the first century people a time frame for the kingdom?

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

So unless there are 2,000 year old people walking about, the kingdom is here.

The rule set forth for a prophet is that a prophet will foresee what will happen soon, and for God to extend the same prophecy to very much far away (can be as far as the time of end). The same prophecy (short end by prophet and far end by God) can also be realized multiple times, either physically or spiritually.

Jesus also said that the kingdom of God is within us. And in a way He did return earth to cast a lightning on Paul (a classical way of how an OT prophet is called or summoned).

Moreover, "not tasting death" can be anything, not necessarily this life time. First He did return spiritually before John's death. Second, no where says that John ever tasted death. Enoch and Elijah are the two persons who never tasted death. "Tasting death" can have a very much specific meaning, in regards to the process of human death.
 
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mkgal1

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MKgal said:
His Kingdom had come
ewq1938 said:
Not according to Christ.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Isn't that said of us Christians as well (that we are to be "in this world, but not OF this world")? Are we on planet earth right now, though? So that must not be a literal meaning of "of this world"....right? To me....a good way to interpret that would be, "don't base your allegiance on worldly power or temporary things".​
 
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Acts2:38

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The rule set forth for a prophet is that a prophet will foresee what will happen soon, and for God to extend the same prophecy to very much far away (can be as far as the time of end). The same prophecy (short end by prophet and far end by God) can also be realized multiple times, either physically or spiritually.

Jesus also said that the kingdom of God is within us. And in a way He did return earth to cast a lightning on Paul (a classical way of how an OT prophet is called or summoned).

This wasn't a statement directed to JUST the apostles, but to the entire generation living at that time.

Luke 17 still has a future tense use of kingdom, see verse 20. Looking at the entire context instead of just one verse...
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Jesus says He must suffer first before the kingdom comes basically. He also states that it will not be physical (v.20) it is "within us". Basically anyone who is Christian, is in the kingdom. The church in Greek means...

ekklēsia - In terms of Christians, it means = a calling out;the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth;an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting.

God's chosen people are the "spiritual Israel" not the physical anymore. Hence the sayings, "there is neither jew nor greek, etc etc. The Christians are in the kingdom.

You not going to escape the fact that everything Acts 2 and after is present tense. I'm sorry but you cannot change context at your whim.

Moreover, "not tasting death" can be anything, not necessarily this life time. First He did return spiritually before John's death. Second, no where says that John ever tasted death. Enoch and Elijah are the two persons who never tasted death. "Tasting death" can have a very much specific meaning, in regards to the process of human death.

Mark 9:1, is blatantly physical death. Those people will not taste physical death until the kingdom comes, is whats being said.

So are there 2,000 year old people roaming the earth or not?
 
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mkgal1

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How many comings of Christ do you think there are??
What is often translated as "coming" in the Bible is "parousia" (God's presence). So....to answer your question: there's been many times throughout Scripture where God is manifest in a physical way. I think that's the problem.....common teaching has reduced it down to just His birth, His resurrection, and His future coming....leaving out the significance in between (like in this article):

------>Quoting from Fr. Stephen Freeman:

I grew up near the end of the world. It was a generally accepted notion that we were living in the “end times,” meaning that Christ would soon return. We were taught that believers would be “raptured” out of the terrible things that would unfold and be with Christ in heaven. We were also taught that the end of the world would come about in a terrible world-wide conflagration. We hid under desks in our schoolrooms, practicing for a nuclear war (desks are known to protect you from hydrogen bombs). The end of the world was soon, and only a push of the button away.

In my teen years, there was a small publishing boom in evangelical circles as Hal Lindsey launched his Late, Great, Planet Earth , complete with maps of the troop movements for the Battle of Armegeddon. It seemed so real. An end-time cottage industry, particularly strong in America, continues to feed off such false interpretations of Scripture and, more seriously, a complete absence of true Christian eschatology. Virtually nothing in Christian theology is more essential than the End. But the End is not at all what modern popularists think or say.

In the Scriptures, time is not rightly seen as a linear reality. Modern popular Christianity essentially secularizes the world, positing a naturalist view of cause and effect and historical flow. The occasional disruptions that are matters of Divine intervention do not change the nature of this secularized view. In conversations with non-believers, such modern views of Scripture present no challenge or suggestion that the world is other than a modern person imagines, with the sole exception of a God who exists somewhere and has rules.

This naturalist/secularized view of time and creation has no place for sacraments. Actions such as Baptism and Eucharist are minimized and marginalized. A Baptism that does something, or a Eucharist in which bread and wine actually change, disturbs the fixed order of the secularized world. Sacraments become needless complications that make the evangelical project more difficult. It is far easier to say to converts, “We simply do this because Jesus told us to,” or “We only do this in order to remember Him,” than to suggest that an entire worldview is false. If the world is sacrament and symbol (in the strong sense), then the secular/naturalist view of things is profoundly wrong and the task of Christian evangelism includes the radical re-education of the world.

The place of the End in classical Christianity can only be understood from a fully sacramental viewpoint. The End is not a conclusion of the historical process, a product of things that have come before. It is not what history has been adding up to. As such, the “End” is not a description of a point in time. Its full revelation at some point is almost its least important aspect.

So. What is the End? In Christian terms, the End is Christ Himself. We can also say that the End is another word for the manifestation of the Kingdom of God. Christ Himself is described in the Revelation as the “Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.” This is an eternal description, not an appellation for certain points in time. Christ describes the End as “the Kingdom of God coming in power” (Mark 9:1). As Christ goes about His ministry, proclaiming the coming of the Kingdom, the End is present in His every word and action.

The clearest proclamation of this reality is recorded in Luke’s gospel:

So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.” Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Lk. 4:16-21)

The passage from Isaiah is a prophecy of a cosmic Jubilee Year, the coming of the Kingdom of God. In OT Law, after seven cycles of Sabbath Years, the fiftieth year comes as the crown. All debts are canceled, all land reverts to its original owner. It is a liberation that is a shadow of a greater liberation to come. It is that greater liberation, the actual coming of the Kingdom of God, that Christ references in His statement that “this Scripture is fulfilled.”

What we see in the course of Christ’s ministry is summed up in his message to John the Baptist:

Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them.”

All that Christ does happens because He Himself is the content of the sacrament of the Kingdom. Wherever He goes, the End is fulfilled.

This is the very same reality that the Church proclaims in its sacramental and mystical life. The Divine Liturgy is not an act of remembrance, but the coming of the Kingdom of God into our midst. There we eat the true supper at the End of all things. (St. John Chrysostom’s liturgy actually refers to the Second Coming in the past tense!)

This is at the very heart and nature of the gospel. We do not proclaim something that will happen. We proclaim something that has happened and that is now among us. When the Church lives rightly, according to Christ’s commandments, it lives in the eschaton, the End of all things. It is in that light that we forgive our enemies, give to those who ask of us, and return good for evil done to us. We can do this because we have been Baptized into the End of all things. We are already dead, “and our life is hid with Christ in God.” (Col. 3:3)

The great and abiding temptation for Christianity is to temporize the gospel. When the world sinks into the mundane, the normal, and the ordinary, the gospel becomes a banality, a religious teaching that does little more than moralize or threaten. The wonder that is the Kingdom of God breaking forth in the midst of things is dismissed and exchanged for that which will be, sometime later in the chronos. The subtle message is, “Not now, not here.”~Full article here: The End of Time Is Probably Not What You Think - Glory to God for All Things
 
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mkgal1

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Here is a list of what I could find of the instances where "coming" is the interpretation in Scripture (and the original word):


Matthew 24:3

sign of thy coming

parousia

N-GSF

Matthew 24:27

coming of the Son

parousia

N-NSF

Matthew 24:37

coming of the Son

parousia

N-NSF

Matthew 24:39

coming of the Son

parousia

N-NSF

1 Corinthians 15:23

Christ’s at his coming

parousia

N-DSF

1 Corinthians 16:17

glad of the coming of Stephanas

parousia

N-DSF

2 Corinthians 7:6

by the coming of Titus

parousia

N-DSF

2 Corinthians 7:7

not by his coming only

parousia

N-DSF

2 Corinthians 10:10

his bodily presence

parousia

N-NSF

Philippians 1:26

my coming to you again

parousias

N-GSF

Philippians 2:12

in my presence

parousia

N-DSF

1 Thessalonians 2:19

Christ at his coming

parousia

N-DSF

1 Thessalonians 3:13

at the coming of our Lord Jesus

parousia

N-DSF

1 Thessalonians 4:15

remain unto the coming of the Lord

parousian

N-ASF

1 Thessalonians 5:23

unto the coming of our Lord

parousia

N-DSF

2 Thessalonians 2:1

the coming of our Lord

parousias

N-GSF

2 Thessalonians 2:8

brightness of his coming

parousias

N-GSF

2 Thessalonians 2:9

whose coming is after …

parousia

N-NSF

James 5:7

unto the coming of the Lord

parousias

N-GSF

James 5:8

the coming of the Lord draweth nigh

parousia

N-NSF

2 Peter 1:16

the power and coming of our Lord

parousian

N-ASF

2 Peter 3:4

the promise of his coming

parousias

N-GSF

2 Peter 3:12

hasting unto the coming of the day

parousian

N-ASF

1 John 2:28

before him at his coming

parousia

N-DSF
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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So the many language experts who translated our bibles didn't seek your expertise. Perhaps than you can give us the full translation of hebrews 9:28 as you read from the original language -not just eliminating the word second but the meaning of the whole verse please.

even the YLT has the word second
so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

It doesn't state he will come again and again and if He comes again that would be a 2nd time and the final time. The translations capture that meaning and understanding. And His coming again would complete the Fathers command in psalm 110:1 "until" and Jesus statement He would raise us up on the last day as that is His Fathers will.

Furthermore a 1st century resurrection is not a possible answer and the mount of olives has not been split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies as in Zech 14. That is still a future event. Those invading armies are destroyed by God not mankind. Just as Jesus stated in Rev 16:15-16 He comes like a thief and destroys the armies of the beast (visible and invisible)

The timing of the resurrection is at the end of tribulation as is Daniel 12:1 at that time...Jesus said he would send out His angels and Michael is a angel and commander of other angels He reports to His Lord and Our Lord for he is also a fellow servant with us of Jesus like the other angels.

As the mighty and awesome angel described in Rev testified to John
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."
I said that is not the Greek word for coming. It is an extra Biblical phrase......that does in fact put and extra Biblical interpritation on the Biblical doctrine of the coming of the Lord.
 
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Hawkins

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This wasn't a statement directed to JUST the apostles, but to the entire generation living at that time.

Mark 9:1, is blatantly physical death. Those people will not taste physical death until the kingdom comes, is whats being said.

So are there 2,000 year old people roaming the earth or not?

No. You are confused. First you need to admit that it's prophecy. Second you need to admit that you are not a professional to interpret a prophecy. Then everything else is simply possible.

The term "tasting death" is never a complete equivalent to physical death. Or else Jesus can plainly say that "you won't die till then" instead of using the term "tasting death".

Moreover, "generation" can well be another prophetic term. It's never an intention for a prophet to introduce confusion. It's the typical behavior of a prophecy which is always like a puzzle to humans, as a key indication that it's a prophecy.
 
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