Why God Ordains Sin In Your Life

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According to the most wise, holy, and just counsel of God's will, he has seen fit to ordain and permit his own children to get caught up in sin.

We were all once totally dead in sin and God saved us out of it. But also Christians, at times, fall back into patterns of sin or sins persist in their lives that are not easily overcome. Why does God ordain this?

Westminster say:
"The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave, for a season, his own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends. (WCF 5.5)​

According to the WCF, God permits his children to get caught up in sin to discipline them and also to show them the hidden depths of their sin in order to humble them and draw them to a closer dependence upon himself.

John Owen say:

“God says, ‘Here is one, if he could be rid of this lust, I should never hear from him again. Let him wrestle with this, or he is lost.’”
Owen says the same thing. What fickle creatures we are. There are some sins, afflictions, and needs in our life that, if God were to take them away, we would never talk to God again! He wisely leaves them in place until we learn a more constant dependence upon him.

Does the Bible teach that God ordains sin for these purposes? Yep. I'll just leave the prooftexts here - 2 Chronicles 32:25-31; Deuteronomy 8:2-5; Luke 22:31-32; 2 Samuel 24:1, 2 Samuel 24:25; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9; Psalms 73; Psalms 77; Mark 14:66-72; John 21:15-19

This does not mean that we should allow sin to reign in our bodies or that we have some license to continue in sin. God commands that we repent of all sin and take sin very seriously. But those of us who have sojourned in sin and been brought out of it may look back and see how God used it to humble us and draw us to a closer dependence upon him.
 
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Doug Melven

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I normally advocate against the burning of books. But, if that book that you got those quotes form John Owen and WCF were in my possession I would have kindling.
You should have looked at the first couple chapters of Judges.
God tells them they are to conquer the land. But they don't despite His willingness to help them do it.
Then He finally tells them that He will not conquer the aliens living there. But He will use them to test them.hat they
It was not His will that they not conquer the land.

It is His will that we live victorious lives.
He does use the results of our disobedience to make us more like Him.
But He is never the author of that trouble. James 1:13
He never leaves us to our own devices like WCF says. Hebrews 13:5
And don't forget 1 Corinthians 10:13
There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man, BUT GOD IS FAITHFUL WHO WILL NOT SUFFER YOU TO BE TEMPTED ABOVE THAT YOU ARE ABLE but will with the temptation also make the way pf escape that you may be able to bear it.
 
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Doug Melven

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Does God's "ordination" of sin necessarily mean that He is its Author?

The WCF also says: "God from all eternity did by the most and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass..." Westminster Confession - Of God's Eternal Decree - Chapt 3
Here is the rest of that quote:
yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

I wouldn't put to much stock in the WCF if I were you.
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.

This is Unscriptural.
 
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St_Worm2

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What is unscriptural about it? For instance:

Ephesians 1
4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He lavished on us

Also, what is the definition of God's "ordination" (as you understand it, I mean)?

Thanks!

--David
 
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sunlover1

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According to the most wise, holy, and just counsel of God's will, he has seen fit to ordain and permit his own children to get caught up in sin.
Gotta agree with Doug, burn the book.
What the heck!
LOL
God says "DO NOT SIN"
your book is cray cray

Can you really imagine telling your baby
"DONT TOUCH SNAKES, they'll hurt you"
And then putting him in a room so filled
with snakes that he can't help but touch
one .. he has no choice?

Yeah well our God isn't a liar or a nut either
It would look like this:
God, "Say no to sin"
God, "Here, go sin now"

Some things should just be obvious.
smh
lol
 
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1213

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....God permits his children to get caught up in sin to discipline them ...

But can that be true, when Bible tells this?

….Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
 
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Doug Melven

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What is unscriptural about it? For instance:

Ephesians 1
4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He lavished on us

Also, what is the definition of God's "ordination" (as you understand it, I mean)?

Thanks!

--David
You only looked at the first half of that quote.
Did you see the part where the WCF says that God ordained some men and angels to everlasting destruction?
God did not create man for destruction. Or angels for that matter.
Once they fell, then they were fit for destruction.

Also if you look at the verse you quoted, you will see that it was that we should be holy and blameless.
This is not talking about individual election.
 
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bling

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According to the most wise, holy, and just counsel of God's will, he has seen fit to ordain and permit his own children to get caught up in sin.

We were all once totally dead in sin and God saved us out of it. But also Christians, at times, fall back into patterns of sin or sins persist in their lives that are not easily overcome. Why does God ordain this?

Westminster say:
"The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave, for a season, his own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends. (WCF 5.5)​

According to the WCF, God permits his children to get caught up in sin to discipline them and also to show them the hidden depths of their sin in order to humble them and draw them to a closer dependence upon himself.

John Owen say:

“God says, ‘Here is one, if he could be rid of this lust, I should never hear from him again. Let him wrestle with this, or he is lost.’”
Owen says the same thing. What fickle creatures we are. There are some sins, afflictions, and needs in our life that, if God were to take them away, we would never talk to God again! He wisely leaves them in place until we learn a more constant dependence upon him.

Does the Bible teach that God ordains sin for these purposes? Yep. I'll just leave the prooftexts here - 2 Chronicles 32:25-31; Deuteronomy 8:2-5; Luke 22:31-32; 2 Samuel 24:1, 2 Samuel 24:25; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9; Psalms 73; Psalms 77; Mark 14:66-72; John 21:15-19

This does not mean that we should allow sin to reign in our bodies or that we have some license to continue in sin. God commands that we repent of all sin and take sin very seriously. But those of us who have sojourned in sin and been brought out of it may look back and see how God used it to humble us and draw us to a closer dependence upon him.
They both seem to miss the purpose of sin.

As far as I see and have seen, all mature adults will sin do sin and need to sin to help them fulfill their earthly objective.

The human earthly objective requires the obtaining of Godly type Love which is way beyond man ability to learn, deserve, develop, pay for and it can not be made instinctive to man since that is a robotic type love (carnal) and God cannot just force it on man like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.
The only way I see to obtain this Godly type Love is through what Jesus has taught us "...he that is forgiven much Loves much..." so if you realize you have been forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin you will automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (a Godly type Love). So to be "forgiveness" you must first sin.
 
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sunlover1

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They both seem to miss the purpose of sin.

As far as I see and have seen, all mature adults will sin do sin and need to sin to help them fulfill their earthly objective.

The human earthly objective requires the obtaining of Godly type Love which is way beyond man ability to learn, deserve, develop, pay for and it can not be made instinctive to man since that is a robotic type love (carnal) and God cannot just force it on man like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.
The only way I see to obtain this Godly type Love is through what Jesus has taught us "...he that is forgiven much Loves much..." so if you realize you have been forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin you will automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (a Godly type Love). So to be "forgiveness" you must first sin.
We can't "learn" to be loving. (As i understand it)
A child of the devil can't love.
A child of God can't hate.
The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannotgo on sinning, because he has been born ofGod. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…
 
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bling

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We can't "learn" to be loving. (As i understand it)
A child of the devil can't love.
A child of God can't hate.
The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannotgo on sinning, because he has been born ofGod. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.…
I can agree with most of this, but a Christian can quench the indwelling holy Spirit and go about doing his own thing (sinning). Hopefully he comes back after realizing where he has gotten to.
 
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