OLD COVENANT SHADOWS POINTING TO THE NEW

LoveGodsWord

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Hi Doug, some comments below for your consideration.

LoveGodsWord said:
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
This interpretation denies the promise of the New Covenant. I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Doug you say that the statement that says...
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

denies the NEW COVENANT? How does this statement deny the NEW COVENANANT?

Do you believe that we are saved while CONTINUING in a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

I would say that if you believe that we can still be saved while living in SIN denies the Gospel. In the end days we are told...

2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5 [1], This know also, that in the LAST DAYS perilous times shall come.
[2], For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3], Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,[4], Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5], HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF; FROM SUCH TURN AWAY .

these are those who believe a counterfeit Gospel. The counterfeit Gospel is one that DENIES the POWER OF GOD to save a SINNER from their SINS. This is NOT the true Gospel. The true Gospel is one that SAVED the SINNER from their SINS as it is written..

ROMANS 1:16 [16], FOR I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST; IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

links to..

1 PETER 1:3-7 [3], Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [4], To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you, [5], WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD THROUGH FAITH READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST DAYS. [6], Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations: [7], That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found to praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

what is this power that can save us from sin?

2 PETER 1:2-4 [2], Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, [3], ACCORDING TO HIS DIVINE POWER HAS GIVEN TO US ALL THINGS THAT PERTAIN TO LIFE AND GODLINESS, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue: [4], WHEREBY ARE GIVEN UNTO US EXCEEDING GREAT AND PRECIOUS PROMISES; THAT BY THESE YOU MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DEVINE NATURE, HAVING ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION IN THE WORLD THROUGH LUST.

God's POWER is his WORD. This is the same WORD that was in the BEGINNING with God and all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. This is the same WORD that said let their be light and there was light.

CREATION to be made new FROM SIN by FAITH through the POWER of God's WORD.

So in the last days there will be two clases of people. Those who have a FORM OF GODLINESS but deny God's POWER to save them from SIN and another class of people that BELIEVE in the GOSPEL that gives them POWER to SAVE them from TEMPTATION TO SIN and makes them a PARTAKER of the DIVINE NATURE TO LIVE A LIFE OF GODLINESS. The POWER of GOD is to DELIEVER God's people from the TEMPTATION to SIN so they can live a life of GODLINESS. The Good news of the GOSPEL is freedom and SALVATION from SIN... not to sin. Those who CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die.

WHOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT TO SIN

HE WHO COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN. IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED (John 8:31-36).

OBEDIENCE to GOD's LAW by FAITH that works by LOVE is FREEDOM from the BONDAGE OF SIN...

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in BONDAGE to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

Jesus calls those who practice sin as the servants of sin SIN and those who commit SIN as being in BONDAGE to sin.

GALATIANS 4:1-5; 9 [1], Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; [2], But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. [3], Even so we, when we were children, were in BONDAGE under the elements of the world: [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons....

[9], But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in BONDAGE?

HEBREWS 2:14-15 [14], For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to BONDAGE.

Paul calls those who are in sin subject to BONDAGE..

2 PETER 2:19 [19], While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in BONDAGE.

Jesus, Paul and Peter all relate SIN to being in BONDAGE or being a SERVANT to sin..

ROMANS 6:17-23 [17], But God be thanked, that you were the SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTINE THAT WAS DELIEVERED TO YOU. [18], BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, you became the SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. [19], I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity to iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness to holiness. [20], For when you were the SERVANTS OF SIN, you were free from righteousness. [21], What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22], But now being made FREE FROM SIN, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus explains that SIN starts in the mind (thoughts and feelings) before they become action..

MATTHEW 5:20-22 [20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22], But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment..

and again..

MATTHEW 5:27-28 [27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: [28], But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

.................

CONCLUSION: He that commits SIN is a SERVANT OF SIN and is in BONDAGE TO SIN and SIN originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings).

.................

SALVATION IS FREEDOM FROM SIN AND THE BONDAGE OF SIN

JOHN 8:34-36 [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

ROMANS 6:17-18 [17], But God be thanked, that you were the SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTINE THAT WAS DELIEVERED TO YOU. [18], BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, you became the SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

.................

CONCLUSION: In the last days there will be two clases of people. Those who have a FORM OF GODLINESS but deny God's POWER to save them from SIN and another class of people that BELIEVE in the GOSPEL that gives them POWER to SAVE them from TEMPTATION TO SIN and makes them a PARTAKER of the DIVINE NATURE TO LIVE A LIFE OF GODLINESS. The POWER of GOD is to DELIEVER God's people from the TEMPTATION to SIN so they can live a life of GODLINESS. The Good news of the GOSPEL is freedom and SALVATION from SIN... not to sin. Those who CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will die.

BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN means to be OBEDIENT TO GOD'S LAW which is RIGHTOUESNESS BY FAITH in God's WORD that works by LOVE by walking in God's SPIRIT. Salvation is from the BONDAGE and SLAVERY of SIN. WE are now the servants of RIGHTOUESSNESS.

ROMANS 5:21[21], That as sin has reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

ROMANS 6:16 [16] Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

................

The statement is correct; Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There is no verse in the New Testament telling us to keep the Sabbath.

Why would there need to be if God had already given it to his people 4000 years earlier and everyone was already keeping God's 4th Commandment? Jesus does however teach us how to correctly obey the 4th Commandment SABBATH.

There is not one scripture in the ENTIRE BIBLE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandments is now ABOLISHED and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.

The only verses people use to advocate the keeping of the weekly Sabbath are ones where it is kept by example. For instance they say Jesus kept the Sabbath we should too. Paul kept the Sabbath we should too.

Actually that is not true Doug for example we read in God's WORD in the NEW TESTAMENT..

1. Jesus taught that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. Jesus taught that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. Jesus taught that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. Jesus taught that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. Jesus taught that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7. Jesus taught that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

8.
Paul warns us that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

9. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter taught there is 10 Commandments including the Sabbath and not 9 commandments and if you break one of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12).

10. Timothy teaches thatALL SCRIPTURE (OLD AND NEW Testament) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

.................

CONCLUSION; There is not one scripture in all of God's WORD that says God's 4th Commandment is ABOLISHED. Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENET scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6)

God's Word disagrees with you.

That is the final rest. But we must find our Sabbath rest in Christ now while on this earth.
4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

There is NO scriputre in all of God's WORD that Jesus is a SABBATH already shown in post # 82 linked CLICK ME.

Also see post # 97 linked CLICK ME.

Also you may have missed it in the earlier posts...

You quote HEBREWS 4:9 which is specifically referring to God's SABBATH rest..

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

HEBREW RESTED [intensive from H7673] RESTED H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v. to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The above HEBREW meaning is the base root of Sabbatismos from the GREEK word used in Hebrews 4:9 which is referring right back to the origin of God's Sabbath in Genesis 2 and God's 4th Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11.

The meraning here is the REST that comes specifically from BELIEVING and OBEYING Gods WORD' from God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. This is the SABBATH rest according to the commandment.

HEBREWS 4:9
[9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

The GREEK Word used here is different.

STRONGS GREEK/HEBERW REST meaning of Hebrews 4:9;
G4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos (sab-ba-tiz-mos') n.
1. a “sabbatism.”
2. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven).

[from a derivative of G4521] σάββατον sabbaton (saɓ'-ɓa-ton) n.
1. the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath).
2. a day of weekly repose from secular avocations.
3. the observance or institution itself.
4. (by extension) a week, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths.
5. likewise the plural in all the above applications.

[of Hebrew origin (H7676)]
שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e.
1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.
2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.

[intensive from H7673]
H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v.
to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}
[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

.................

CONCLUSION
; HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 talking about not entering into GOD'S SABBATH REST because of UNBELIEF and SIN. HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 are also referencing the SHADOWS Children of ISRAEL in the Wilderness and God's people today in reference to the promised land of a NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH when Jesus returns for those who remain faithful BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

.................

This laboring to enter His rest is our striving to not depend on ourselves for anything. We don't depend on our lawkeeping or our own goodness for eternal life. We don't depend on our lawkeeping or our own goodness for His blessings.

We are not saved by what we do but by our faith in God's WORD. If God's WORD says let us labor then we should BELIEVE GOD'S WORD he will give us power as the scripture says..

HEBEREWS 4:11 [11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
On another note, you say that we can't earn salvation by keeping the law. So how can you say that we will lose salvation by not keeping the law? Sounds to me like you are saying we can only keep salvation by earning it with our lawkeeping. Good night. Bedtime.
RIGHTEOUSNESS is by FAITH in all those who BELIEVE God's WORD this is the POWER of GOD unto salvation in all those who BELIEVE

See previous post # 101 already answered linked CLICK ME.

.......................

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Doug Melven

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denies the NEW COVENANT? How does this statement deny the NEW COVENANANT?
Didn't say that.
I said it denies this clause of the New Covenant.
For I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
That is the main clause of the New Covenant.

The is not one scripture in the ENTIRE BIBLE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandments is now ABOLISHED and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 10 Commandments were part of the Old Covenant.
In Jeremiah 31 God says He is going to make a New Covenant, not like the Old Covenant which people broke.
But people insist on the fact that the New Covenant is like the Old Covenant.
Similarities
We can break it.
We have to keep the law, including the Sabbath and the dietary requirements.

If we don't keep the law we break the Covenant.
For these people the only difference is
We don't have to make blood sacrifices or keep the feasts. Some even argue about the feasts.
Everything else is the same.

I am not saying we should go live in sin.
Sin will cost you more than you want to pay.
Sin will take you farther than you want to go.
Sin will keep you longer than you want to stay.

What I am saying is we don't need to go down that hard road.
God has provided Jesus Christ, a much better way.
We don't have to eat pig's food, we get to eat from the King's table.

8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi Doug,

You responded to a quote I made earlier...
LoveGodsWord said:
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
This interpretation denies the promise of the New Covenant. I will be merciful to there unrighteousness and there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
This was responded to in post # 101 linked showing that the Gospel is salvation is from SIN not in SIN. Saying that those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN does NOT deny the new COVENANT promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated in HEBREWS 8:10-12. The NEW COVENANT promise of faith to walk in God's SPRIT is to live a life of GODLINESS through LOVE and OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (ROMANS 13:8-10)

HEBREWS 8:12 [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

is conditional on v10-11...

HEBREWS 8:10-11 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WERITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least to the greatest.

v 12, is written; God being merciful to THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. WHO'S UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? Those who have his LAW written in thier hearts to walk after him to live in a life of GODLINESS (2 PETER 1:2-4). This is not a reference to those who do not have God's LAW written on their hearts who are living a life on KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN. Those who CONTINUE to live a LIFE of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL DIE because they have rejected God's GIFT of salvation...

ROMANS 8:13 [13], For if you live after the flesh <G4561; SINFUL human nature>, YOU SHALL DIE: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

ROMANS 6:23 [23], FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

.............

Now notice HEBREWS 8:11 again and what John says...

HEBREWS 8:11 [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, from the least to the greatest.

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], A

nd hereby we do know that we KNOW HIM, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I KNOW HIM, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Lets now continue in John as he describes who God's people are and the children of the devil...

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, neither KNOWS HIM.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

This all links into God's promises...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27], And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS, AND DO THEM.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

John describes God's people in REVELATION..

REVELATION 12:17 [17], And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

REVELATION 14:12 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

REVELATION 22:14 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

....................

CONCLUSION: Those who CONTINUE in SIN do not KNOW God and have NOT BEEN BORN again under the NEW COVENANT PROMISE. (HEBREWS 8:10-13). If you are not BORN again under the NEW COVENANT promise and freed from SIN to live a live of Godliness you will NOT see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN (JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:9). THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN KNOW UNREPENTANT SIN WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD because they do not KNOW him and have not been BORN again.

Hope this is all helpful...

LoveGodsWord said:
The is not one scripture in the ENTIRE BIBLE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandments is now ABOLISHED and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 10 Commandments were part of the Old Covenant. In Jeremiah 31 God says He is going to make a New Covenant, not like the Old Covenant which people broke. But people insist on the fact that the New Covenant is like the Old Covenant. Similarities We can break it.
We have to keep the law, including the Sabbath and the dietary requirements.

If we don't keep the law we break the Covenant.
For these people the only difference is
We don't have to make blood sacrifices or keep the feasts. Some even argue about the feasts.
Everything else is the same.

I am not saying we should go live in sin.
Sin will cost you more than you want to pay.
Sin will take you farther than you want to go.
Sin will keep you longer than you want to stay.

What I am saying is we don't need to go down that hard road.
God has provided Jesus Christ, a much better way.
We don't have to eat pig's food, we get to eat from the King's table.

8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


Doug, none of what you have said here addresses what you are responding to which is there is not one scripture in the ENTIRE BIBLE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT that says God's 4th Commandments is now ABOLISHED and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.

It also does not address the scripturres in the OP which shows that the OLD COVENANT includes two sets of laws.

1. God's ETERNAL LAWS (10 Commandments) which are the KNOWLEDGE of SIN is and are repeated all through the NEW TESTAMENT and COVENANT and...

2. the MOSAIC SHADOW laws from the BOOK OF THE COVENANANT which are fulfilled or done away with in the NEW as they point to CHRIST and God's plan of salvation for mankind.

More detailed scriptures linked CLICK ME HERE.

None are elect and justified while CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

ROMANS 2:13 [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

Do we need more scripture?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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bugkiller

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No I will not I have responded to all your posts. But get some rest and we can talk latter if you like. Anyways nice talking to you maybe we can chat more latter. I have to take my wife out now anyway.

I will be back latter. bb for now.. :wave:
The record bears something quite different to this confession.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Hello Doug I cannot stay long have to pick my wife up shortly.

Your post was not ignored it was answered and I was sharing a different perspective on it. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are referencing God's people in the wilderness. They did not enter into God's rest as you have correctly stated because of their sins and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13).

The word rest used in Chapter 4's CONTEXT is the GOD's REST "From the foundation of the world"? 4v3 and the rest reference is a quote from GENESIS 2:1-3

HEBREWS 4:3 [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world (Genesis 2:1-3).

HEBREWS 4:4 [4],
For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
This says nothing about the sabbath.
links into...

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
This also says nothing about the sabbath.You are changing and adding words to the text in both cases above.
HEBREW RESTED [intensive from H7673] RESTED H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v. to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The above HEBREW meaning is the base root of Sabbatismos from the GREEK word used in Hebrews 4:9 which is referring right back to the origin of God's Sabbath in Genesis 2 and God's 4th Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11.

The meraning here is the REST that comes specifically from BELIEVING and OBEYING Gods WORD' from God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. This is the SABBATH rest according to the commandment.

HEBREWS 4:9
[9], There remains a SABBATH REST to the people of God.

The GREEk Word used here is different.

STRONGS GREEK/HEBERW REST meaning of Hebrews 4:9;
G4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos (sab-ba-tiz-mos') n.
1. a “sabbatism.”
2. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven).

[from a derivative of G4521] σάββατον sabbaton (saɓ'-ɓa-ton) n.
1. the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath).
2. a day of weekly repose from secular avocations.
3. the observance or institution itself.
4. (by extension) a week, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths.
5. likewise the plural in all the above applications.

[of Hebrew origin (H7676)]
שַׁבָּת shabbath (shab-bawth') n-e.
1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.
2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.

[intensive from H7673]
H7673 שָׁבַת shabath (shaw-ɓath') v.
to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}
[a primitive root] KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.
Shabbath is a noun.
Shabath is a verb. For the word sabath to be a reference to the sabbath there has to be additions to the word as in prefixes or suffixes. Therre is no indication of the sabbath anywhere in Genesis. God blessed the 7th day in Genesis. God did not have a periodic rest as the word sabbath intones when referenced to weekly.
.................

CONCLUSION
; HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 talking about not entering into GOD'S SABBATH REST because of UNBELIEF and SIN. HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4 are also referencing the SHADOWS Children of ISRAEL in the Wilderness and God's people today in reference to the promised land of a NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH when Jesus returns for those who remain faithful BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

NO WHERE in any of those chapters or in all of the Bible does it ever say Jesus is a Sabbath, only that the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY of the week and Jesus is the LORD of the SABBATH DAY that he created. The focus here is SIN and UNBELIEF and how those who did this did not enter into God's SABBATH rest. This is a warning for all of us today.
The word in Genesis is properly translated cease. God did in fact cease from His work of creating and did not return to it. To me this means no returning to work with a break (pause). This is not the meaning we generally give to rest. God did not pause and return. Shabath means - to cease, desist. These word must be defined too. In legal terms we have cease and desist which means - stop and not do again. This is the same intended meaning of Genesis 2.

Cease means - bring or come to an end.

Desist means - abstain.

bugkiller
 
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Doug Melven

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This was responded to in post # 101 linked showing that the Gospel is salvation is from SIN not in SIN.
This statement is inaccurate and leads to other problems.
We are not saved from sin or in sin.
We are saved from the penalty of sin.
Being free from sin not to sin is a side effect.
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our LORD. Romans 6:23
If we were saved from sin, as soon as someone becomes a believer they would stop sinning.
As we get to know Jesus Christ more and more we become more and more like Him and we sin less and less.
 
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bugkiller

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Hi Doug,

You responded to a quote I made earlier...

This was responded to in post # 101 linked showing that the Gospel is salvation is from SIN not in SIN. Saying that those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN does NOT deny the new COVENANT promise of JEREMIAH 31:31-34 repeated in HEBREWS 8:10-12. The NEW COVENANT promise of faith to walk in God's SPRIT is to live a life of GODLINESS through LOVE and OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (ROMANS 13:8-10)
When you demand keeping the law it most certainly does.

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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Doug I cannot stay long have to pick my wife up shortly.

Your post was not ignored it was answered and I was sharing a different perspective on it. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are referencing God's people in the wilderness. They did not enter into God's rest as you have correctly stated because of their sins and unbelief (Hebrews 3:10-13).

The word rest used in Chapter 4's CONTEXT is the GOD's REST "From the foundation of the world"? 4v3 and the rest reference is a quote from GENESIS 2:1-3

HEBREWS 4:3 [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world (Genesis 2:1-3).

HEBREWS 4:4 [4],
For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

This says nothing about the sabbath.

Saying that HEBREWS 4:3-4 is not talking about God's SABBATH REST has no truth in it whatsoever. We have already established from the scriptures you are quoting from it is discussing;

1. v3 GOD'S REST from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD
2. v4 For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Both scriptures you are quoting from is a direct reference from GENESIS 2:1-3..

GENESIS 2:1-3
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

v9 that you leave out...

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], There remains a SABBATH REST <REST G4521 Sabatismos; a keeping of a SABBATH> to the people of God.

Yep God's WORD is very clear it is talking about God's SABBATH rest :)

Seems God's WORD disagrees with you

LGW wrote: links into...
Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This also says nothing about the sabbath. You are changing and adding words to the text in both cases above.

Not at all. You have been shown from God's WORD alone that it is talking about God's SABBATH. GENESIS 2:1-3 is the ORIGIN of God's SABBATH and 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments.

Let's compare the scriptures for further clarity as you still seem to be confused...

ORIGIN OF THE SABBATH; GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT (EXODUS 20:8-11)

GENESIS 2:1-3
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, AND MADE IT HOLY <7th DAY>: because that in it he had RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORKS THAT GOD CREATED AND MADE.

Some points to note from the scriptures...

v1-3 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY
v2 God RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY
v3 God SET APART the SEVENTH DAY and made SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2 The SEVENTH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEK

links to...

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day; GENESIS 2:3)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY ? KEY v 11>
[11]
, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, AND RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, AND MADE IT HOLY. <DIRECT QUOTE FROM GENESIS 2:1-3>

Yep God's WORD is very clear and it is talking about God's SABBATH rest from CREATION and God's 4th Commandment :)

Seems God's WORD disagrees with you

Shabbath is a noun. Shabath is a verb. For the word sabath to be a reference to the sabbath there has to be additions to the word as in prefixes or suffixes. Therre is no indication of the sabbath anywhere in Genesis. God blessed the 7th day in Genesis. God did not have a periodic rest as the word sabbath intones when referenced to weekly.

Your quote above is in relation to multiple word definitions of REST and SABBATH I have written about from HEBREWS 4:9 as well as the GREEK WORDS for SABBATH and REST Sabbatismos and Sabbaton following their ORIGIN to the HEBREW root words for SABBATH and REST from Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11.

Out of all these different GREEK and HEBREW words and the scriptures associated to them you reference Shabbath and Shabath as the noun and verb meaning for reference of Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 use of REST and SABBATH. This was never the purpose for sharing these word meanings.

The purpose for sharing these words was to show that the ORIGIN of God's 4th Commandment (like the scripture posts in the above section of this post all these word meaning have their ORIGIN from GENESIS 2:1-3 AND THE HEBREW ROOT WORD IN REST (H7673) which is SHABATH (verb) which means; to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root]KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

On the other hand the HEBREW WORD for Sabbath in EXODUS 20:8-11 means the interval (noun) between SHABATH (interval of REST) or from one SABBATH to another (EVERY SEVENTH DAY)

You are trying to make a strawman argument from something I have never said. Your argument does not change the fact that the reference from GENESIS 2:1-3 connects directly to God's 4th COMMANDMENT from EXODUS 20:8-11 as shown above here and in the previous section of scripture in this post.

Not only do the scripture ORIGINS trace back to GENESIS 2:1-3 and the creation week for God's 4th Commandment Sabbath so do the GREEK and HEBREW word meanings show the ORIGIN of SABBATH is the REST found in GENESIS 2.

God's WORD once again disagrees with you.

The word in Genesis is properly translated cease.

No it doesn't. Your only part quoting the HEBREW word meaning of H7673 which is; STRONGS HEBREW DICTIONARY; REST (H7673) which is SHABATH (verb) which means; to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root]KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, KEEP SABBATH, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

God did in fact cease from His work of creating and did not return to it. To me this means no returning to work with a break (pause). This is not the meaning we generally give to rest. God did not pause and return.

GENESIS 2:1-3
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And on the SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3, And God blessed the SEVENTH DAY, AND MADE IT HOLY <7th DAY>: because that in it he had RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORKS THAT GOD CREATED AND MADE.

God ceased from the WORK he made at creation. God SET ASIDE AND BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK making EVERY SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY that no WORK is to be carried out. This is the ORIGIN of God's 4th COMMANDMENT * EXODUS 20:8-11. It is the SEVENTH DAY not everyday that God SET APART, BLESSED and MADE HOLY. Hence the Hebrew word in EXODUS 20:8-11 for SABBATH is SHABATH (H7676) the interval of rest every SEVENTH DAY.

Once again seems God's WORD disagrees with you my friend.

Hope this helps..
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The record bears something quite different to this confession. bugkiller

Then prove it. So far you have only shared your own words over God's WORD. Only God'd WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This statement is inaccurate and leads to other problems. We are not saved from sin or in sin. We are saved from the penalty of sin. Being free from sin not to sin is a side effect. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our LORD. Romans 6:23 If we were saved from sin, as soon as someone becomes a believer they would stop sinning. As we get to know Jesus Christ more and more we become more and more like Him and we sin less and less.

Hello Doug,

We are indeed saved from the penalty of SIN I have never said anything different.

God's WORD teaches as shown in the previous posts that SALVATION is from SIN. Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTENT SIN will not ENTER THE KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN have not accepted the GIFT of GOD'S dear son if they are still in their SINS because they have not repented from them. Therefore if they have NOT accepted the GIFT of God's dear son the WAGES of SIN is death (Romans 6:23)

Please feel free to respond to all the posts and scriptures in them that disagree with you if you like. Simply stating your words over God's does not make the scriptures disappear.


.
 
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We asked for your discussion on some specifics concerning the topic. We get a by and refusal. why? You just want us to say something to argue about. Do as we have asked and you will get.

bugkiller
Seems simple enough to me.
 
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bugkiller

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Hi Doug, some comments below for your consideration.


Doug you say that the statement that says...


denies the NEW COVENANT? How does this statement deny the NEW COVENANANT?
It is not the statement by itself. It is the definition of the words. Your claim is not keeping the national law given to Israel is sin. This is not true even by your 1 John3:4 partial quote. There is no word only in that verse. Your idea means that Abraham kept the law which came 430 after him. This is not only impossible, but Moses says no in Deut 5:3.
Do you believe that we are saved while CONTINUING in a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?
NO and the problem is what you are calling sin. Since the Christian is not obligated to that covenant, we can not violate it. Thus there is no sin in not keeping the 4th commandment you do not keep yourself.
I would say that if you believe that we can still be saved while living in SIN denies the Gospel. In the end days we are told...
I would say you do not understand I Jn 1:9.
2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5 [1], This know also, that in the LAST DAYS perilous times shall come.
[2], For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3], Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,[4], Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5], HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF; FROM SUCH TURN AWAY .
If you have not noticed we have not turn to you. I would also say you are talking about yourself with these verses.
these are those who believe a counterfeit Gospel. The counterfeit Gospel is one that DENIES the POWER OF GOD to save a SINNER from their SINS. This is NOT the true Gospel. The true Gospel is one that SAVED the SINNER from their SINS as it is written..
Yes you preach a counterfeit gospel of law. The law is not good news or the Good News.
ROMANS 1:16 [16], FOR I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST; IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
If you are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, why are you trying to push the law on people?

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Why would there need to be if God had already given it to his people 4000 years earlier and everyone was already keeping God's 4th Commandment? Jesus does however teach us how to correctly obey the 4th Commandment SABBATH.
Because the new covenant is exactly that. If it is not in the new covenant requirements, it is not a requirement of the new covenant the Christians is under the jurisdiction of.

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