On Judging Others

mdamon0501 said:

Well, this is what I would say to that viewpoint. Do you believe the cannibal was in error? That God will punish him? Is it not in vain then to pursue after him?

Is this not the message throughout the Bible? That all men will be purified by fire and judged by God for the entirety of their lives? If so, then is not your condemnation of another putting you in danger of punishment? The Bible makes that point, and unfortunately the Chapter and Verse illudes my memory at the moment, but it makes the point that whatever you do to others will be out onto you. There is I believe a somber reminder of this in Isaiah, where the image is given of a character which stamped out all his enemies, and then when he turned to ask for help, found none willing to help.

There is also men in the Old Testament who don't get their own full stories, but who are called righteous before God because they treated their enemies with kindness and generosity.

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I am responding to to people who list the sins of others, under the mistaken assumption that their own crimes deserve no attention becasue they are converts, and the rest are headed for Hell. Instead scripture teaches us that we are all sinners and only by God's grace is our fate any different.

I understand deeply that believers have little clue as to how they should be acting in response to God's gracious gift of salvation from our deserved hell.

Matthew 7
In everything,
then, do to others
as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Enter through the narrow gate.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets” depend on these two commandments.

Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out,
or you will be consumed by each other.…

Matthew 19:19
honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.'"

James 2
8 If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

I treat _______ the same as I would wish to be treated by others, myself.

Danielwright2311 said:

Now a lot of people say Jesus said to judge , but he said to judge appearance not actions.

If we are to humble our self to all people like we are commanded, then we can not judge others at all as when we do we put our self above them and not under them.

No cherry picking here.

Paul was wrong as no one is righteous, all have sinned, and in that sin we can only put our self above each other or humble our self under each other.

Jesus said to humble your self, even to wash each others feet, how can I wash your feet when I am so called righteously judging you?

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John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge with right judgment.” ... ...

John 8:15 You people judge by outward appearances; I do not judge anyone.

Isaiah 11:3 He will take delight in obeying the LORD. He will not judge by mere
appearances, or make decisions on the basis of hearsay.

1 Samuel 16:7 People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart ...

Humans look at outward appearances, but the LORD looks into the heart ...

SkyWriting said:

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge with right judgment.” ... ...

John 8:15 You people judge by outward appearances; I do not judge anyone.

Isaiah 11:3 He will take delight in obeying the LORD. He will not judge by mere
appearances, or make decisions on the basis of hearsay.

1 Samuel 16:7 People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart ...

Humans look at outward appearances, but the LORD looks into the heart ...

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Thank you brother for further proving my point. God bless you and the truth.

SkyWriting said:

Instead scripture teaches us that we are all sinners and only by God's grace is our fate any different.

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Can you give me a verse or two that states everyone will continue to sin and be sinner After they are born again? Or something implying that the only difference between a worldly sinner and a "saved sinner" is there fate? Note: I see it as a stretch to use "All HAVE sinned and come Short" to also mean "All will continue to sin and come short"

RaymondG said:

Can you give me a verse or two that states everyone will continue to sin and be sinner After they are born again? Or something implying that the only difference between a worldly sinner and a "saved sinner" is there fate? Note: I see it as a stretch to use "All HAVE sinned and come Short" to also mean "All will continue to sin and come short"

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Exchanged now, changed upon death...

We have this hope.

1 John 1:8

And... sir, we all screw up, long after being saved...

Any human being... that isn’t Jesus and claims to not sin... when Jesus even equated sinful thought and desire with actual sin... is either turning a blind eye to themselves or making statements they ought not make.

Honesty and sincerity are two of the most important traits of following Jesus and sir... are you seriously going to stand before God and all and say you never screw up?

One of the elementary points of following Jesus is to admit failure! It’s called repentance... and anything shy of it won’t do!

Grip Docility said:

Exchanged now, changed upon death...

We have this hope.

1 John 1:8

And... sir, we all screw up, long after being saved...

Any human being... that isn’t Jesus and claims to not sin... when Jesus even equated sinful thought and desire with actual sin... is either turning a blind eye to themselves or making statements they ought not make.

Honesty and sincerity are two of the most important traits of following Jesus and sir... are you seriously going to stand before God and all and say you never screw up?

One of the elementary points of following Jesus is to admit failure! It’s called repentance... and anything shy of it won’t do!

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I like the Scripture thanks. Would your knowledge of this clear and simple verse seem to contradict the following?:
1 John 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Maybe the idea of being "saved" and "born again"(from above) are different.

And what about Jesus command to be Perfect......Is this the same as continuing to screw up?

Danielwright2311 said:

Now a lot of people say Jesus said to judge , but he said to judge appearance not actions.

If we are to humble our self to all people like we are commanded, then we can not judge others at all as when we do we put our self above them and not under them.

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No we don't.
I judge my own actions and i have to judge the actions of others too.
If I don't, how will I know who not to eat with?

I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.12What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?…

No cherry picking here.

Paul was wrong as no one is righteous, all have sinned, and in that sin we can only put our self above each other or humble our self under each other.

Jesus said to humble your self, even to wash each others feet, how can I wash your feet when I am so called righteously judging you?

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We humbly obey God, who says not to even eat with someone who's saying he's a
brother and then going around being a drunk... or sexually immoral... etc.
I can see the guy at work is bragging about his church attendance, yet he's a drunk.
My SEEING that, doesn't make me any more important in my own eyes.
Thus it has nothing to do with my own humility.
It's not "putting yourself above anyone' if you see someone's drunk.
How does that make me less humble?
Maybe you have different ideas of the word humble and the word judge.

RaymondG said:

Can you give me a verse or two that states everyone will continue to sin and be sinner After they are born again? Or something implying that the only difference between a worldly sinner and a "saved sinner" is there fate? Note: I see it as a stretch to use "All HAVE sinned and come Short" to also mean "All will continue to sin and come short"

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Your message is unpopular now-days, but it's Biblical

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin,
because God’s seed abides in him;
he cannot go on sinning,
because he has been born of God.
10By this the children of God and the children
of the devil can be distinguished:Anyone who
does not practice righteousness is not of God,
nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

This is Bible ^^^
But we don't love to read that part

sunlover1 said:

No we don't.
I judge my own actions and i have to judge the actions of others too.
If I don't, how will I know who not to eat with?

I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.12What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?…



We humbly obey God, who says not to even eat with someone who's saying he's a
brother and then going around being a drunk... or sexually immoral... etc.
I can see the guy at work is bragging about his church attendance, yet he's a drunk.
My SEEING that, doesn't make me any more important in my own eyes.
Thus it has nothing to do with my own humility.
It's not "putting yourself above anyone' if you see someone's drunk.
How does that make me less humble?
Maybe you have different ideas of the word humble and the word judge.

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Then I guess when Jesus walked and talked with sinners he was not following the bible right?

1.Mosses killed, Moses first killed a Egypt soldier, then by Exodus 32:27–28 killed 3000 men, then he and Aaron have killed two hundred and fifty men related with Korach


2.Noah was a drunk, he drank to get drunk


3.Lots daughters sleept with lot when he was drunk

ABRAHAM was too old.
Genesis 17:17, Genesis 25:7

JACOB lied.
Genesis 27:1-46

LEAH was ugly.
Genesis 29:16-18

JOSEPH was abused.
Genesis 37:22-28

MOSES had a stuttering problem.
Exodus 4:10

GIDEON was afraid.
Judges 6:1-40

SAMSON had long hair and was a womanizer.
Judges 16:17, Judges 16:5

RAHAB was a prostitute.
Joshua 2:1

JEREMIAH and TIMOTHY were too young.
Jeremiah 1:6

DAVID was an adulterer and a murderer.
2 Samuel 11:2-4, 2 Samuel 11:14-17

ELIJAH was suicidal.
1 Kings 19:4

ISAIAH preached naked.
Isaiah 20:2

JONAH ran from God.
Jonah 1:3

NAOMI was a widow.
Ruth 1:3

JOB went bankrupt.
Job 1:21

JOHN THE BAPTIST ate locusts.
Matthew 3:4

PETER denied Christ.
Mark 14:71

The DISCIPLES fell asleep while praying.
Matthew 26:40

MARTHA worried about everything.
Luke 10:40-42

MARY MAGDLENE was demon possessed.
Mark 16:9

The SAMARITAN WOMAN was divorced more than once.
John 4:17-18

ZACCHEUS was too small.
Luke 19:2-3

PAUL was a murderer and a blasphemer.
1Timothy 1:12-16

TIMOTHY had an ulcer.
1Timothy 5:23

and LAZARUS was dead!
John 11:1-57

sunlover1 said:

No we don't.
I judge my own actions and i have to judge the actions of others too.
If I don't, how will I know who not to eat with?

I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.12What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?…



We humbly obey God, who says not to even eat with someone who's saying he's a
brother and then going around being a drunk... or sexually immoral... etc.
I can see the guy at work is bragging about his church attendance, yet he's a drunk.
My SEEING that, doesn't make me any more important in my own eyes.
Thus it has nothing to do with my own humility.
It's not "putting yourself above anyone' if you see someone's drunk.
How does that make me less humble?
Maybe you have different ideas of the word humble and the word judge.

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Sorry, I forgot this

"As it is written, There is none righteous,
No, not one." Romans 3:10

Danielwright2311 said:

Sorry, I forgot this

"As it is written, There is none righteous,
No, not one." Romans 3:10

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Dont leave out the next verse:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If you take verse 10 to be literal and to prove that no one today can be righteous, We must also be able to use the next verse to say that you dont understand God and you yourself have never sought Him and never can/will.....Correct?

And if you dont understand God and never sought Him yourself, How are we to believe the things you have to say in the matter of this thread?

Or maybe this is not what verse 11 means....or what verse 10 truely means.....and therefore cannot be used singularly to prove points or to prove others wrong?

RaymondG said:

Dont leave out the next verse:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If you take verse 10 to be literal and to prove that no one today can be righteous, We must also be able to use the next verse to say that you dont understand God and you yourself have never sought Him and never can/will.....Correct?

And if you dont understand God and never sought Him yourself, How are we to believe the things you have to say in the matter of this thread?

Or maybe this is not what verse 11 means....or what verse 10 truely means.....and therefore cannot be used singularly to prove points or to prove others wrong?

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I only used that text to show how you are using your own beliefs against your self.

Jesus died for our sins, not for us to be righteous, but for the ones who can not be righteous.

The ones who need to be forgiven, if Jesus forgives all if asked by his death then you need to also.

If you judge others then you do not forgive.

Now to judge a event as bad is not the same thing... and you are doing your best to twist other scripture in this to make your point.

When you judge a event or bad situation you do this with good judgment, but never judge a man or people as this is Gods job not yours.

If you think your righteous then your wrong and your whole argument is not valid.

You say we must be righteous, I say Jesus died because we cant be.

You think you are righteous? If not, then don't tell others to be.

RaymondG said:

I like the Scripture thanks. Would your knowledge of this clear and simple verse seem to contradict the following?:
1 John 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Maybe the idea of being "saved" and "born again"(from above) are different.

And what about Jesus command to be Perfect......Is this the same as continuing to screw up?

Click to expand...

Where there is “no law” there is “no sin” (Romans 4:15).

Hidden in Christ... (Colossians 3:3) Forgiven by His Love and Saccrifice. (Ephesians 1;7)

Perfected in Mercy, Grace and Love... (1 John 4:18)

I know you screw up as well as I know I screw up. And... I know you and I like to put on daddy’s shoes that are 1,000,000 times too big for us and try be just like Him... because He is our whole world... but we can’t.

However... you and I are bound to one another by our Love for Him and though we disagree on points... we are graciously bound in brotherhood by His Love... (John 13:35)

In that way... I find Love is being perfected within us, by Him.

I want you to know that no matter what your fellow group of believers tell you... that when you do fall on broken knees in failure... that I assure you... His grace is sufficient... and you remember me! Remember me (a crazy man) that said his favorite quote from Paul... His power is perfected in weakness... and you remain His... even when you fall and scrape your knees. Daddy (Jesus) Loves to scoop you up and kiss those boo boos away!

How many times does He forgive? Count to infinity.

How far does he cast your sins away? How far is East from West?

And... when we get dumb... He shines on us with His faithfulness and grace... because He’s that WONDERFUL!!! <3

I Love you Brother and appreciate your devotion to Him...

All blessings in Him to you.

Danielwright2311 said:

Then I guess when Jesus walked and talked with sinners he was not following the bible right?

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Wrong.
We're not to judge those "outside" the church.

2 Thess 3:6 tells us:
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life that is not in keeping with the tradition you received from us.

sunlover1 said:

Wrong.
We're not to judge those "outside" the church.

2 Thess 3:6 tells us:
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life that is not in keeping with the tradition you received from us.

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See? Jesus said to love your enemies, do good to them who hate you and use you, see how it contradicts?

I follow Jesus only sorry.

Danielwright2311 said:

See? Jesus said to love your enemies, do good to them who hate you and use you, see how it contradicts?

I follow Jesus only sorry.

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Ohhh
So.. you don't follow the rest of the Bible then?
See, I didn't know that!
No wonder we can't communicate on this.

Well, I don't see a contradiction because to me
love means telling the truth.
If i'm heading for hell by continuing in some kind
of drunkenness or sexual immorality etc.. I'd much
appreciate someone telling me the UNlovely truth
and saving my bee-hind from the hell fires, than to
tell me, "there there, you can't help it, it's an illness"

So to me, love is truth.
Truth sometimes seems unattractive. (heck yeah!)
But it's still the truth.

sunlover1 said:

Ohhh
So.. you don't follow the rest of the Bible then?
See, I didn't know that!
No wonder we can't communicate on this.

Well, I don't see a contradiction because to me
love means telling the truth.
If i'm heading for hell by continuing in some kind
of drunkenness or sexual immorality etc.. I'd much
appreciate someone telling me the UNlovely truth
and saving my bee-hind from the hell fires, than to
tell me, "there there, you can't help it, it's an illness"

So to me, love is truth.
Truth sometimes seems unattractive. (heck yeah!)
But it's still the truth.

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Telling you about your ways is not judgment, it is leading you away from error, but guess what? Jesus died for our sins so you cant go to hell if you believe in Jesus, he said so him self.

But you don't believe that Jesus will save you unless you are perfect and you can not be perfect and you are not perfect.

If you was perfect you would not argue with me about this, see? I'm not perfect either.

How am I to follow what you say and believe when you deny Jesus words and teachings?

So how are you going to hell if your saved? you cant, its impossible, Jesus died for your sins of drunkenness or sexual immorality and he will deliver you from them if you believe.

ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS, NOTHING ELSE.

Danielwright2311 said:

Telling you about your ways is not judgment, it is leading you away from error, but guess what? Jesus died for our sins so you cant go to hell if you believe in Jesus, he said so him self.

But you don't believe that Jesus will save you unless you are perfect and you can not be perfect and you are not perfect.

If you was perfect you would not argue with me about this, see? I'm not perfect either.

How am I to follow what you say and believe when you deny Jesus words and teachings?

So how are you going to hell if your saved? you cant, its impossible, Jesus died for your sins of drunkenness or sexual immorality and he will deliver you from them if you believe.

ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS, NOTHING ELSE.

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We don't communicate well.
I don't care to mess with all of the assumptions and
etc.
Thank you.

Danielwright2311 said:

Jesus died for our sins so you cant go to hell if you believe in Jesus, he said so him self.

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Danielwright2311 said:

and he will deliver you from them if you believe.

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"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
You have to do more than just believe....
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

You can believe in Jesus and believe you know Him. But this does not mean that he will know you in the end.

"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Danielwright2311 said:

How am I to follow what you say and believe when you deny Jesus words and teachings?

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Very true.....Read these Words from Jesus:
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. "

I didnt say it...Jesus did... Now lets read your words:

Danielwright2311 said:

But you don't believe that Jesus will save you unless you are perfect and you can not be perfect and you are not perfect.

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You state that What Jesus said to do, cannot be done. Now lets read your words again:

Danielwright2311 said:

How am I to follow what you say and believe when you deny Jesus words and teachings?

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RaymondG said:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
You have to do more than just believe....
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

You can believe in Jesus and believe you know Him. But this does not mean that he will know you in the end.

"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."



Very true.....Read these Words from Jesus:
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. "

I didnt say it...Jesus did... Now lets read your words:



You state that What Jesus said to do, cannot be done. Now lets read your words again:

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Then why don't you do what he says?