Changing the Bible Sabbath by presumption alone ?

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Yes. That is already addressed here:

"... Jesus was not saying that the Priests were actually breaking God's Law. He was responding to pharisees about their misunderstanding of what it meant to break Sabbath. He was using their idea of 'violation', see verse 2.

Jesus said "guiltless", "... ye would not have condemned the guiltless." and that before he gave them their example [as he refers back to their original condemnation]. The pharisees had "condemned" based upon their tradition, not upon a Thus saith the LORD. Jesus then uses their definition of 'violation' and shows them from the scripture that their idea of violation is not actually transgression, thus absolutely innocent. ..."

Why then did Jesus refer to "the law" ["shows them from scripture", "have ye not read"; notice, given in the negative]? To show the Pharisees that their definition of "violation" ["not lawful" vs 2] was not actually "violation" ["guiltless" vs 7] since their traditions were negating the scriptures, commandments of God, and the disciples were doing nothing against scripture, though the Pharisees accused based upon their tradition, saying of men. Jesus did not go to "the law" to show that the Sabbath could be violated by His people, but went to the "it is written" to demonstrate the Pharisees error in judgment about what a "violation" on Sabbath was. The disciples were innocent, guiltless, and the Pharisees were the wrongfully informed accusers, and Jesus showed them this from the scripture. Their standard of judgment/accusation was not founded upon thus saith the Lord.

I have cited evidence, from vs 2 that Jesus was doing this.

... vs 5 is contextually linked to vs 2. ... as the Pharisees apriori about sabbath violation was in error ..." - The Sabbth-day Law Can Be Violated
Thus in so saying, my previous point is not negated, but further magnified. Jesus, in responding to the Pharisees, draws attention not merely to David, but all the way back to Genesis and Adam, the man, as Jesus had done on the occasion about the question on marriage:

Matthew 19:4 KJB - And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Mark 10:6 KJB - But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Again, that is a reference to Adam and Eve, just as in the Sabbath commandment. They are the twin institutions of Eden.

Since Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath [from Genesis], He ought to know how it is to be kept, apart from Pharisaical manglings. In a word, Jesus sets the precious Jewel of the 4th Commandment back into its proper setting.

Interesting. What kind of Sabbath-keeping church? Why the name, was it based in a scriptural text?

Friday at sunset until Saturday at sunset, and everyone knew the exact time.

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Why would the destruction of the Temple have anything to do with keeping Sabbath?

The Temple and the Levitical priesthood were integral to keeping the OC Sabbath according to the Law. Without the priesthood the commanded assembly; the holy convocation; is not possible (unless we all go to a Jewish temple or synagogue).

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
The Temple and the Levitical priesthood were integral to keeping the OC Sabbath according to the Law.

Not so. Consider Exodus 16, just on the surface:

Exodus 16:23 KJB - And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Exodus 16:28 KJB - And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Exodus 16:30 KJB - So the people rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath was already in existence, otherwise God could not ask them "How long ...", and at that point there was no 'tent' and no 'levitical priesthood', though there was already the greater Temple and a greater Priesthood.

However, beyond the surface, the camp itself was already the gathered peoples. They were already together.

Consider the Passover itself:

Exodus 12:16 KJB - And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

Which is what happened in Egypt. They were gathered together.

OldWiseGuy said:
... Without the priesthood the commanded assembly; the holy convocation; is not possible ...

As shown above, not so.

However, even still, Christians are taken for Levites, see Isaiah 66:21 KJB, and we as God's people as a whole and individually, are a "temple" unto the LORD.

OldWiseGuy said:
... (unless we all go to a Jewish temple or synagogue).

I have a "Temple", it is in Heaven. I am there by faith, and my name written there. Consider the Heavenly, not the earthly, and which Heavenly existed before the earthly.

I can also show you where the Temple was in Genesis 2-3, with Adam, and the greater priesthood.

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Not so. Consider Exodus 16, just on the surface:

Exodus 16:23 KJB - And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Exodus 16:28 KJB - And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Exodus 16:30 KJB - So the people rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath was already in existence, otherwise God could not ask them "How long ...", and at that point there was no 'tent' and no 'levitical priesthood', though there was already the greater Temple and a greater Priesthood.

However, beyond the surface, the camp itself was already the gathered peoples. They were already together.

Consider the Passover itself:

Exodus 12:16 KJB - And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

Which is what happened in Egypt. They were gathered together.

As shown above, not so.

However, even still, Christians are taken for Levites, see Isaiah 66:21 KJB, and we as God's people as a whole and individually, are a "temple" unto the LORD.

I have a "Temple", it is in Heaven. I am there by faith, and my name written there. Consider the Heavenly, not the earthly, and which Heavenly existed before the earthly.

I can also show you where the Temple was in Genesis 2-3, with Adam, and the greater priesthood.

Where in the NT are gentile converts required to keep the Sabbath? It actually appears that God (through Paul) didn't require converts from the 'lost tribes' to once again keep the law.

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Where in the NT are gentile converts required to keep the Sabbath?

Consider [edited]:

"... Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Who is this talking about? It is talking about Jesus [see also Isaiah 46:13, 51:5,6,8 KJB, “my righteousness shall not be abolished”, Psalms 119:172, “all thy commandments are righteousness”, see also Isaiah 48:18 KJB]:

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 2:30 KJB - For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Acts 4:10 KJB - Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:12 KJB - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Jump briefly to the next verse in Isaiah 56, verse 8 KJB:

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Who is this talking about? It is Jesus Christ again, and those whom He gathers from two, to make one:

John 10:16 KJB - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus Himself, says that He is fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah 56:1,8 KJB, in John 10:16 KJB. Now, go back and let us read the context between them:

Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Even the Gentiles were to join themselves to this “Israel”, to the LORD [JEHOVAH Immanuel] Jesus and keep God's holy seventh day the sabbath in the Everlasting Covenant!

Matthew 10:25 KJB - It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Malachi 1:6 KJB - A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Luke 6:40 KJB - The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

See its fulfillment in the NT [“... the Gentiles are turned to God:” - Acts 15:19 KJB, “That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called ...” - Acts 15:17 KJB, not to cast away the Tabernacle of David, no, but to build it up, see Acts 15:16-17; Amos 9:11-12 KJB, for God had winked at the ignorance of all men in the past, but now commands all men everywhere to come to Him in repentance, and come into obedience to His Law, see Acts 17:30 KJB, see Acts 4:24, 14:15-16; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7; 2 Peter 2:21; Revelation 12:17; 14:12, 22:14 KJB]:

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

... It is the memorial of when the Father worked with the Son in Creation. It is the memorial of what the Father gave and the Son paid to redeem man. ...

As it was foretold [see its very context, even with Abram ...]:

Nehemiah 9:6 KJB - Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalms 146:6 KJB - Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:

[Remember, “thy Law is truth”, and “all thy commandments are truth”, and “truth” is eternal. Psalms 119:142,151,172 KJB]

Jews [in repentance], sheep:

Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Gentiles [in repentance], other sheep:

Acts 14:15 KJB - And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Acts 14:16 KJB - Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

All peoples [in repentance]:

Revelation 10:6 KJB - And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Again, in NT:

Acts 13:42 KJB - And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:43 KJB - Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Acts 13:44 KJB - And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Jews and Gentiles together!...

Acts 16:13 KJB - And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 18:4 KJB - And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Acts 18:11 KJB - And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

The Gentiles, turned unto God:

Acts 15:21 KJB - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 17:2 KJB - And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

[Paul was a follower of his Master, Jesus Christ, and wanted to be like his Master:

Luke 4:16 KJB - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.]

Acts 17:3 KJB - Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Acts 17:4 KJB - And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few. ..." - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Where in the NT are gentile converts required to keep the Sabbath? It actually appears that God (through Paul) didn't require converts from the 'lost tribes' to once again keep the law.

Consider also Acts 15, wherein the "repentant" ["turned unto God"] Gentiles were already keeping Sabbath:

Acts 15:14 KJB - Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Acts 15:16 KJB - After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Acts 15:17KJB - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Acts 15:18 KJB - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Acts 15:19 KJB - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:20 KJB - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:21KJB - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

See also John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, etc. It's all over the place. Consider also:

[Jesus is Israel part 1] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 2] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 3] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 4] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 5] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

BobRyan said:
BobRyan said: ↑
Matthew 5 "do not even think that I came to reduce or abolish the LAW"
Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH was MADE for mankind"

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles met in the synagogues for Gospel preaching. And it is not a "mystery" as to how they were keeping the Sabbath "every Sabbath".

Question for you - how many times is the term "Sabbath" used in the NT to refer to the Bible Sabbath of Exodus 20 -- but observed on a different day?

Answer: zero.

1. Many folks complain about the "mere quote" of the text as we see in your post.
2. The text is "irrefutable"
3. The text is very "old"

And so also do the many pro-Sunday groups in my signature line. You take a position that is very popular among Bible scholars.

I affirm you for doing so.

But as you may notice - the 99.9% postings here by those who oppose the Bible Sabbath is almost always against "the TEN" or any statement affirming "the TEN".

My question for you is where is the NT text saying that the scriptures telling us HOW to keep the Bible Sabbath have been deleted??.

Where does the NT say that the Sabbath remains as long as we do not keep it "HOW" God said it is to kept in the actual Sabbath Commandment
-on the seventh day "The SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10
- a day of rest Ex 20:8-10
- a day of holy convocation Lev 23:3

Where is it that the NT says "ok all ten remain as long as you don't keep Sabbath the way God said to keep it in the actual commandment"???

In your case you insist that it goes right down to the very wording of the Commandment that has been "invisibly changed".

Changed from "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" into "any day you wish is THE Sabbath of the LORD" or "any way you wish is how to keep that 7th day Sabbath holy".

The burden of proof is on those who make such extreme assumptions.

You assume the salient point in your argument when you go to "Assume it is changed or details deleted and start over when reading the Jewish authors of the NT writing about God's Sabbath. So then if they still 'mean it' they must 'repeat it' ".

It would be like saying "find 'do not take God's name in vain' in the book of Titus and if you don't find it then it is up for changes" -- how in the world would inserts of that form be "merely assumed to be true"??.

Question for you: How many times is the term "Sabbath" used in the NT to refer to some day of the week that is NOT the 7th day??

Answer: zero.

The OT specification for observance of the Bible Sabbath spoken by God -
1. The SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) Ex 20:10
2. A day of rest - Exodus 20:8-11 - no secular activity Isaiah 8:13
3. A day of "holy convocation" Lev 23:3

Question for you: What NT text says Sabbath commandment must not be kept with the specifications directed by God in scripture? ( i.e. in the OT)

Answer: there is not one such text.

Not opposed to any Sabbath just not under the written law.

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Consider also Acts 15, wherein the "repentant" ["turned unto God"] Gentiles were already keeping Sabbath:

Acts 15:14 KJB - Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Acts 15:16 KJB - After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Acts 15:17KJB - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Acts 15:18 KJB - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Acts 15:19 KJB - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:20 KJB - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:21KJB - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

See also John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, etc. It's all over the place. Consider also:

[Jesus is Israel part 1] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 2] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 3] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 4] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

[Jesus is Israel part 5] - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

I need to see where the scripture says that Gentiles are under the law. I have a multitude of verses that say Gentiles are not under the law. I don't remember seeing one that said, Gentiles are under the law.

I also need to see in the scripture where it says, Gentiles are under the ten commandments.

There is also a difference between turning up to a synagogue to hear someone preach about Jesus. And being under the law and attending a synagogue on the Sabbath, which Jews tend to do.

The7thColporteur · May 8, 2018

klutedavid said:
I need to see where the scripture says that Gentiles are under the law. I have a multitude of verses that say Gentiles are not under the law. I don't remember seeing one that said, Gentiles are under the law.

I also need to see in the scripture where it says, Gentiles are under the ten commandments.

There is also a difference between turning up to a synagogue to hear someone preach about Jesus. And being under the law and attending a synagogue on the Sabbath, which Jews tend to do.

"Under the law":

Romans 3:19 KJB - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Jesus preached about Jesus in Luke 4:16-18 KJB. Paul did the same. Which of the two weren't keeping sabbath? How is preaching the Gospel on Sabbath, somehow not equal to keeping it?

klutedavid · May 8, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
"Under the law":

Romans 3:19 KJB - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Jesus preached about Jesus in Luke 4:16-18 KJB. Paul did the same. Which of the two weren't keeping sabbath? How is preaching the Gospel on Sabbath, somehow not equal to keeping it?

Those UNDER the written law were the Jews!

You know which nation was under the law, stop trying to put Gentiles under the law.

Your verse (Romans 3:19) simply states that the law speaks directly to those under the law, i.e., the Jews. The rest of the world becomes guilty as a consequence of Israel's failure.

You need to provide the array of verses that directly state that Gentiles are UNDER the law!

The7thColporteur · May 8, 2018

klutedavid said:
Those UNDER the written law were the Jews!

You know which nation was under the law, stop trying to put Gentiles under the law.

Your verse (Romans 3:19) simply states that the law speaks directly to those under the law, i.e., the Jews. The rest of the world becomes guilty as a consequence of Israel's failure.

You need to provide the array of verses that directly state that Gentiles are UNDER the law!

Israel the peoples were to be a Light to the Gentiles, as in Deuteronomy 4 KJB, etc.

All creation is under law/order of God. The rain, wind, sun, moon & stars, the galaxies, the microbes, the beasts, etc., etc.

Therefore, let me try a broader approach:

Acts 17:26 KJB - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Does God set "bounds" for all nations "of their habitation"? Yes/No?

Acts 17:30 KJB - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Does God require all "nations" to repent? Yes/No?

Isaiah 60:3 KJB - And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Isaiah 60:5 KJB - Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Acts 11:18 KJB - When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 15:17 KJB - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Are the nations to come to "thy light"?

Matthew 12:18 KJB - Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

When did Jesus "shew judgment to the Gentiles"?

Acts 13:42 KJB - And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Were the Jews to stop keeping Sabbath as the unconverted Gentiles did not keep God's Law? Or rather were the Gentiles to believe the Gospel, repent and begin keeping God's Law and be joined to the Tree, grafted into Israel [Christ Jesus], thus keep Sabbath as the books of Acts shows, as Amos shows, as Isaiah shows, etc? There was to be one fold, in harmony.

Mark 2:27 KJB. Adam, the man. All humanity in him. Jesus Christ, the second/last Adam. All saved humanity in him.

Now read Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, and know that the word "man", is Adam.

OldWiseGuy · May 8, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
John 10:16 KJB - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

But weren't these "other sheep" actually the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Jesus was "sent only"?

And during their captivity by the Assyrians and their dispersion were they required to keep the Sabbath?

And were the ten commandments part of the law that Paul revealed are now changed (Hebrews 7 and 8). We understand the new fullness of (most) of the ten commandments under the NC, but what is the new understanding of the Sabbath, or does it alone remain unchanged? Must we attend a meeting on that day to be taught the law by the Jews?

The way I understand it the Sabbath is to be kept holy by us, not made holy by us. The Sabbath is holy time and should be regarded as such , but how do we do that today. The command is to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

Under the law certain physical requirements were to be met. What are those requirements today. I recognize and respect the 4th of July as a national memorial, but I don't set off fireworks or hang banners to prove that I'm a loyal American. I just observe and respect that day as a memorial. The same with the Sabbath. I recognize it as holy time, the memorial of creation, and a full day of rest if I choose to rest. I do keep it in the sense that I don't do my customary 'servile' job. It's a day off from work and an opportunity to be refreshed from the usual chores. It's a 'delightful' day, as God has said.

BobRyan · May 8, 2018

klutedavid said:
Not opposed to any Sabbath just not under the written law.

Is "do not take God's name in vain" written in your opinion??

Is James teaching doctrinal error in your opinion?
James' text has some interesting "quote marks" what is he quoting in your POV -- scripture?

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

BobRyan · May 8, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
But weren't these "other sheep" actually the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Jesus was "sent only"?

Jesus was mocking the disciples when he said that because he had just traveled all the way to syrophoenicia for the express purpose of healing a gentile (In addition to the other gentiles he ministered to).

As John says regarding Jesus' interview with Nicodemus "God so Loved the WORLD" -- not "just the Jews"

Thus Jesus teaches "the Sabbath was made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 -- speaking to the "making of both"

BobRyan · May 8, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
The same with the Sabbath. I recognize it as holy time, the memorial of creation, and a full day of rest if I choose to rest.

And you recognize God's name as a name not to be taken in vain -- if you choose to do that?

BobRyan · May 8, 2018

klutedavid said:
Those UNDER the written law were the Jews!

No text says that -

What the Bible says is that it is a sin to take God's name in vain - even if you are not a JEW.
What the Bible says is that the LAW condemns ALL the World "not just JEWs" read Romans 3:19-21

BobRyan · May 8, 2018

klutedavid said:
I need to see where the scripture says that Gentiles are under the law. .

So then you did no did not read Romans 3?(this must be about the 50th time it was mentioned)

Romans 3:19-21,23 for example

Micah888 · May 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
Question for you: What NT text says Sabbath commandment must not be kept with the specifications directed by God in scripture?

When the question of the application of the Law of Moses (the Old Covenant) came up, the Holy Spirit did NOT include sabbath-keeping for the Church.

ACTS 15
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Furthermore, Christians were told that sabbaths, new moons, holy days, etc. were all "shadows". The reality is Christ. Which means that Christ is the Christian's Sabbath, and we are urged to enter into the eternal sabbath rest of God by faith (Heb 4).

Finally "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) is mentioned in Scripture for a very good reason. It was "the morrow after the sabbath", the first day of the week, on which Christ arose from the dead, was worshiped, and on which day Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper. So the Lord's Day is equivalent to the Jewish sabbath in that it has been set aside by God for rest, worship, and good works.

OldWiseGuy · May 8, 2018

Micah888 said:
Finally "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) is mentioned in Scripture for a very good reason. It was "the morrow after the sabbath", the first day of the week, on which Christ arose from the dead, was worshiped, and on which day Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper. So the Lord's Day is equivalent to the Jewish sabbath in that it has been set aside by God for rest, worship, and good works.

The "Lord's Day" in Rev 1:10 is the end time Day of the Lord, not a new Sabbath.

OldWiseGuy · May 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
And you recognize God's name as a name not to be taken in vain -- if you choose to do that?

I take my 'marriage' vows very seriously.

Changing the Bible Sabbath by presumption alone ?

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Similar threads