The Sabbath-day Law Can Be Violated

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

Certainly it appears that Abraham tithed, I agree with that.

But we still need to know what commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham obeyed.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Do you think Abraham had the entire law of Moses?

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

klutedavid said:
Certainly it appears that Abraham tithed, I agree with that....

When you answer my question, I will continue with yours.

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
That's a great "tradition" [found nowhere in scripture btw] you have there, but it sounds a lot like what Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about. Nullfying God's commandments to keep your "traditions". [Unless you have a command somewhere to do that in the place of God's actual commandment, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB?]

Not a tradition, the first day resurrection is bolted into the scripture, and that is what we celebrate. Of course, the first day celebration does not break any commandment, anyone who says it breaks a commandment is a liar!

A person might respond and say, "Commandment? We don't need no stinking commandment ..." to 'celebrate' the Resurrection on the first day that is ...

We gather together on the first day not to rest from work. We gather together to celebrate and remember, what Jesus has done for us.

Fine, fine, but what about what the Bible commands to do to celebrate the resurrection? You know, "Baptism"? Romans 6, etc?

A person might respond and say, "I am already baptized [immersed] in water ..."

Fine, fine, but what about that the Baptism was to be representative of the burial of the old man of sin and the ways of sin [1 John 3:4 KJB] which is transgression of God's law? And to arise in newness of life to obey God in all His Commandments?

A person might respond and say, "But I do keep Christ's commandments ..."

Aye, and there's the rub. John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB. One lawgiver.

All this is irrelevant to gathering together on the day the Lord rose, the first day.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

That is what you call a proof text, the disciples did gather on the first day to break bread!

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
When you answer my question, I will continue with yours.

Yes.

Kaon · May 7, 2018

Marco70 said:
Could I ratify what you stated:

If you love God, You will not build any graven/unwholesome images in your mind(in addition to what you stated)

If you love God you will not look at a woman with lust in your eye(Commandment ratified, sermon on the mount)
If you love God, you will not get angry with your brother(commandment ratified, sermon on the mount)
If you love God you will not have impure thoughts/lust(tenth commandment)

If you love God you will love your enemies, those who hate, malign and slander you.(Jesus taught who we must love)

I wonder how many Christians pass those tests to prove they love God with all their heart, body, soul, mind and strength

This is in addition to the 10 commandments.

Marco70 · May 7, 2018

Kaon said:
This is in addition to the 10 commandments.

What is?

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

klutedavid said:
...

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

That is what you call a proof text, the disciples did gather on the first day to break bread!

As they did on many days of the week:

Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 5:42 KJB - And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Indeed, and not only in Acts, yes even in the Gospels and elsewhere, the Christians [even as did the Jews] met daily, none of which eliminates obedience to God in His 4th Commandment:

Jesus met in the temple "daily" [and not only there, also synagogue, and in nature], even especially in his last week from Sunday to Tuesday, especially: John 11:55, 21:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 14:49; Luke 19:47, 22:53; John 18:20; see additionally [in this order, read carefully], Matthew 21:10; Mark 11:11; John 12:12,13; Matthew 21:12,13,17; Mark 11:12,15,16,17,19; Matthew 26:2; Mark 14:1; Matthew 21:18,23; Mark 11:20,27; Matthew 23:37,38,39 [Parallel to Luke 13:31,32,33,34,35]

And does any know why this "daily"? Understand this text - Psalms 77:13

Also, Jesus met with the Disciples the 2nd day of the week here, since he spent a great deal of time with the two Disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the first day [see Luke 24:21, "...beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done"], it came to be evening [which begins the next day, when the sun sets at even, Mark 1:32; Leviticus 23:32; Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, etc ], and then they sat down to dinner, and as Jesus vanished before them, they ran back to Jerusalem at night and then Jesus met with them again, all together [thus no longer the 'first [day] of the week', but rather the second [day] of the week]:

Luke 24:29 KJB - But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

Luke 24:30 KJB - And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

Luke 24:33 KJB - And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

Luke 24:36 KJB - And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Jesus also stayed for 40 days after His resurrection, His first ascension and return:

Acts 1:3 KJB - To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Thus, since Jesus ascended for the Second time, this time from the Mount of Olives, he was there with them exactly 10 days before Pentecost [first [day] of the week], which means, we see again that Jesus was with them not merely upon the first [day] of the week.

Nothing which negates the necessity of obeying God in the 4th Commandment.

In fact, every single 'first day of the week' test, is direct and solid evidence for the permanence of the 7th day the Sabbath as the culmination of the week itrself:

Additionally, further references in the Greek are [every single 'first [day] of the week' text, as each text clearly shows that the first day is simply a number, with no special association or designation, other than it is simply one day toward the culmination of the week, being the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God]:

Matthew 28:1(a) - oye de sabbatwn
Matthew 28:1(b) - eiV mian sabbatwn
Mark 16:2 - kai lian prwi ths mias sabbatwn
Mark 16:9 - anastas de prwi prwth sabbatou
Luke 24:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:1 - th de mia twn sabbatwn
John 20:19 - th mia twn sabbatwn
Acts 20:7 - en de th mia twn sabbatwn
1 Corinthians 16:2 - kata mian sabbatwn

That the Sabbath [of the Lord thy God], [being] the 7th day, is always the culmination of the week in God's Created order and is always referred to as such in all of scripture.

Therefore, every single “first [day] of the week” text upholds the 7th Day Sabbath, and is undeniable evidence of its continued existence and prominence.

Kaon · May 7, 2018

Marco70 said:
What is?

Marco70 said:
Could I ratify what you stated:

If you love God, You will not build any graven/unwholesome images in your mind(in addition to what you stated)

If you love God you will not look at a woman with lust in your eye(Commandment ratified, sermon on the mount)
If you love God, you will not get angry with your brother(commandment ratified, sermon on the mount)
If you love God you will not have impure thoughts/lust(tenth commandment)

If you love God you will love your enemies, those who hate, malign and slander you.(Jesus taught who we must love)

I wonder how many Christians pass those tests to prove they love God with all their heart, body, soul, mind and strength

All of this is in addition to the 10 commandments.

Christ did not change the Law of God - His Father; you were already supposed to refrain from lusting, and adultery was always intertwined with lust - that is how it begins.

Christ was teaching us how to view the law spiritually, and physically - not just as carnal entities.

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

klutedavid said:
Yes.

Not sure what you are specifically replying to. Could you please quote what you are replying to. Thank you.

Marco70 · May 7, 2018

Kaon said:
All of this is in addition to the 10 commandments.

Christ did not change the Law of God - His Father; you were already supposed to refrain from lusting, and adultery was always intertwined with lust - that is how it begins.

Christ was teaching us how to view the law spiritually, and physically - not just as carnal entities.

So you do not believe lust/impure thoughts breaks the tenth commandment?

If you build graven images in your mind, you do not break the second commandment?

You do not believe you can make something a god above your Father in heaven if you put it before God, whatever that thing may be?

Jesus ratified thou shalt not commit adultery. He explained the truth concerning it, as he did with Thou shalt not murder

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

klutedavid said:
Not a tradition ...

If it is not commanded, it is automatically "tradition". The first day was not made holy by simple proclamation of man, and it is not sanctified by majority of the population of earth. Only God can sanctify and make holy a day, and He did so to the 7th Day in Genesis, and to no other day of the week.

klutedavid said:
, the first day resurrection is bolted into the scripture, ...

Not the argument or difference between us, thus non-sequitur. We already agree about when Jesus was resurrected, and I can even give you the timeline from scripture if you would like, for the entire last week.

klutedavid said:
... and that is what we celebrate.

Not the issue. The issue is whether in so doing, that the actual commandment of God, in Exodus 20:8-11 is not obeyed.

We do not care if a person gets up early, goes to a church on Sunday and worships God. Seventh-day Adventists go to church many days of the week, fellowship, activities, outreach, bible study, choir, etc, etc. The issue is the 4th commandment.

klutedavid said:
... Of course, the first day celebration does not break any commandment ...

Who said it did?

klutedavid said:
..., anyone who says it breaks a commandment is a liar!...

You would have to show where anyone ever said such a thing.

The transgression is in not obeying the 4th commandment [Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]. Not that there is a tradition to gather on the first day of the week as well, as any other day.

Kaon · May 7, 2018

Marco70 said:
So you do not believe lust/impure thoughts breaks the tenth commandment?

If you build graven images in your mind, you do not break the second commandment?

You do not believe you can make something a god above your Father in heaven if you put it before God, whatever that thing may be?

Jesus ratified thou shalt not commit adultery. He explained the truth concerning it, as he did with Thou shalt not murder

I said it was in addition to the 10 commandments. Does that sound like I am conflicting the two?

You ratified my statments on the 10, but Christ does not contradict His Father. Anything He said agrees with the Most High God.

That means in addition to not physically commiting adultery, you also need to refrain from lust or you have already done it in your heart - which rules your actions.

Marco70 · May 7, 2018

Kaon said:
I said it was in addition to the 10 commandments. Does that sound like I am conflicting the two?

You ratified my statments on the 10, but Christ does not contradict His Father. Anything He said agrees with the Most High God.

That means in addition to not physically commiting adultery, you also need to refrain from lust or you have already done it in your heart - which rules your actions.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
Rom 7:7

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
Not sure what you are specifically replying to. Could you please quote what you are replying to. Thank you.

Do you tithe as Abraham [and those before and after him] did? Yes/No?

Kaon · May 7, 2018

Marco70 said:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
Rom 7:7

Paul said that, but God didn't create us ignorant of His Law. It was written on our hearts before Moses was given the 10 commands by God. There were plenty of Hebrews who were righteous and followers of God's law before it was written and given.

Christ came to help the sick; not everyone needed to be told over, and over, and over and over and then again by a Messiah to get God's word. That is just a consequence of His mercy that He strove with us so much.

Marco70 · May 7, 2018

Kaon said:
Paul said that, but God didn't create us ignorant of His Law. It was written on our hearts before Moses was given the 10 commands by God. There were plenty of Hebrews who were righteous and followers of God's law before it was written and given.

.

In your view, was Paul wrong?

Specific to the NC is the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer(Jeremiah ch31)

Do not bring your servant into judgement, for NO ONE living is righteous before you
Psalms 143:2

yeshuaslavejeff · May 7, 2018

Marco70 said:
Do not bring your servant into judgement, for NO ONE living is righteous before you
Psalms 143:2

Who does Yahweh and/or Yahshua say in Scripture is righteous, and how are they righteous ? (including if you like : "blameless", "holy"(set apart), "born again", "IN UNION WITH JESUS" (hint:all through the NT) )

The7thColporteur · May 7, 2018

klutedavid said:
Certainly it appears that Abraham tithed, I agree with that.

But we still need to know what commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham obeyed.

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Do you think Abraham had the entire law of Moses?

What do you mean the "entire law of moses"? I would need to know that, before I can more fully address the question, and could you give a detail or two about what 'law, commandment, etc' you might be looking for specifically?

However, I can say that Abraham had the Ten Commandments of God, and obeyed them, from verses already cited, along with the "friend" passages [as Abraham, so Moses, so the Disciples, so us as Christians]. Abraham had the law on Tithe, Clean/Unclean [since it also dealt with the sacrifices he would offer, which also gets into the knowledge of the blood and fat, etc, and he had knowledge of Noah, Abel, and of that which Adam had, etc], of the altar [not made of hewn stones], etc. He even knew of the priesthood, by Melchizedek.

Does this help answer your question?

klutedavid · May 7, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
If it is not commanded, it is automatically "tradition". The first day was not made holy by simple proclamation of man, and it is not sanctified by majority of the population of earth. Only God can sanctify and make holy a day, and He did so to the 7th Day in Genesis, and to no other day of the week.

Not the argument or difference between us, thus non-sequitur. We already agree about when Jesus was resurrected, and I can even give you the timeline from scripture if you would like, for the entire last week.

Not the issue. The issue is whether in so doing, that the actual commandment of God, in Exodus 20:8-11 is not obeyed.

We do not care if a person gets up early, goes to a church on Sunday and worships God. Seventh-day Adventists go to church many days of the week, fellowship, activities, outreach, bible study, choir, etc, etc. The issue is the 4th commandment.

Who said it did?

You would have to show where anyone ever said such a thing.

The transgression is in not obeying the 4th commandment [Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]. Not that there is a tradition to gather on the first day of the week as well, as any other day.

You may have missed that the Gentiles gathered on the first day to break bread. Where as the Jews and early after Jesus rose, gathered to break bread on multiple days, as well as the first day.

For the Jew it is a sin to disobey the Sabbath day!

The Gentile is not under the law, you will never be permitted to circumcise a Gentile. You may have not realized that since a Gentile is not circumcised, then that Gentile is not required to rest on the seventh day either.

Remove one marker (circumcision) and all the markers fall.

Marco70 · May 7, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Who does Yahweh and/or Yahshua say in Scripture is righteous, and how are they righteous ?

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Rom 3:19-22

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!’
Gal2:21

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ – the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
Phil3:9

The Sabbath-day Law Can Be Violated

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads