SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

FreeGrace2 said:

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to my posts.

I've given you the 4 specific commands regarding the Holy Spirit many times, to show you HOW to be either IN fellowship, or OUT of fellowship. It seems you still don't understand these principles.

The indwelling Spirit WILL DEFINITELY influence a believer's heart to keep the commandments but ONLY WHEN the believer is filled with th Spirit an walking by the Spirit.

Consider what Paul compared the filling of the Spirit with: "do not be drunk with wine, which is excess, BUT, be filled with the Spirit".

Just as one can be influenced with wine, and suffer the consequences, so the believer can be filled (influenced) with the Spirit and bear fruit and keep the commandments.


Sorry, but none of this makes sense. And you haven't shown HOW "the logic is faulty".

The 4 commands regarding the Spirit are totally logical.


That's just an opinion expressed. Nothing in Scripture even hints this.

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justbyfaith said:

Most certainly, real salvation cannot EVER be lost.

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justbyfaith said:

Ezekiel 36:25-27 "hints at it" and also expressly teaches it.

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Ron Gurley said:

Do any of you in this group believe we believers can lose our salvation?

Please quote scripture to back your belief. Thank you!

I believe the true "born again from above" Christ-follower enjoys salvation that is ETERNALLY SECURE.

The true believing Christ-Follower is NOT spiritually JUDGED for his POSITION in Christ.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (not made) Son of God.

John 5:24...“Truly, truly, I say to you,
he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.(PAST COMPLETED AORIST TENSE!!)

Only the WORKS, in or out of the will of God, are judged by Jesus on His "bema seat" awards platform.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS

2 Corinthians 5: 1-15 (NIV) + 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV) + Romans 14:10b,12 (1-23)

10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ",
that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY, whether good or bad....

I HAVE BEEN saved from the PRISON of sin / death....SEE: Ephesians 8 for example..."born again from above"...redeemed

I AM BEING saved from the POWER of sin / death....SEE: 1 John 4-5..."overcome the world" ....and

I WILL BE saved from the PRESENCE of sin / death...SEE: New Heavens/Earth/Jerusalem in Revelations

Jesus taught and practiced FORGIVENESS OF SINS to believers...NOT loss of spiritual POSITION
Mark 11: 24-25
See ALSO: Luke 6: 36-38...Jesus: Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Jesus will never "..cast out " a true "sheep" ...believer.
John 6:35-40

Paul taught that: (NOTHING) ..."will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord...."
Romans 8: 35-39

John 10...Jesus the God-Man and God the Father hold you in His HAND...NOTHING can "snatch" you out!

The TRI-UNE God by Grace through Faith has saved the Souls and Spirits of all true believers:
1. shown uttermost LOVE...John 13:1
2. keeps us to Himself.....John 28:30
3. presents us faultless in heaven...Jude 24
4. makes intercession to maintain our saved relationship...Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1
5. places us into the Body of Christ / indwelt by God the Holy Spirit...1 Cor. 12:13
6. seals us until the day of redemption...Ephesians 4:30

NO ONE has EVER undone these spiritual works!

If GOOD WORKS do not follow salvation, then perhaps there was no true salvation in the first place!
James 2:22 says FAITH + WORKS go hand-in-hand!

Romans 7:23...the stuggle
but I see a different law in the members of my body,
waging war against the law of my mind
and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

REDEEMED and freed from the prison of sin!...Jesus paid the price and set us free to follow God's will!

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse FOR us...

Job 33:28
‘He has redeemed my soul from going to the pit, And my life shall see the light.’

1 Peter 1
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,
19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory,
so that your faith and hope are in God.


Theological Results of a Christan-follower's Salvation: completed Work of Jesus on the Cross cannot be UNDONE!

1 Peter 1:8-9
Ephesians 2:6-10
Romans 10:10

Substitution = "for" = in place of + for the benefit of + on behalf of
Matthew 20:28
Galatians 3:13
1 Peter 3:18
2 Corinthians 5:21

Atonement = "at-one-ment"= RECONCILIATION with God through the required SACRIFICE for SIN ...once ...FOR... all
Hebrews 7:27
Hebrews 9:26-28
Hebrews 10:10-14
1 Peter 3:18

Redemption - purchased out of the market place / pawn shop of sin and freed by paying a price
1 Corinthians 1:30
Hebrews 9:12
1 Timothy 2:5-6
Titus 2:11-14

Reconciliation - to change from the status of alienation to the status of family
2 Corinthians 5:19-21
Hebrews 2:17

Adoption - receiving new status by being taken from a family not your own into a new family...
from outsider to full privileges of "son"
Isaiah 62:2
Romans 8:12-17
Galatians 4:1-5

Propitiation - appease or satisfy a God angry with sin and be reconciled with Him
Mark 3:29
Mark 14:21
Romans 1:18
Ephesians 5:6
Romans 3:21-26.
1 John 2:1-2
Justification - "just-if -i -had never sinned"~ = forgiveness of sins?
legal term : not guilty, acquitted, no sentence, no condemnation, law has been perfectly been satisfied, fine paid.
Luke 24:47
Acts 10:43
1 John 2:12
Acts 13:39
Romans 3:21-26
Romans 5:1,9
Romans 10:10
1 Corinthians 6:11
Galatians 2:16-17
Galatians 3:11,24
Titus 3:7
James 2:21-26.
1 John 1:8-10

Santified / Sanctification: - "to set apart" : the goats become sheep and then slowly become "saintly"/"holy"/ Christ-like, more complete and mature
John 17:19
Acts 26:18
1 Corinthians 1:2
1 Corinthians 6:11
Hebrews 10:10-14


1. POSITION changes at salvation ...from outsider to full "son" of God
Hebrews 10:10-14
1 Corinthians 6:11
2. PRACTICE changes, and there is spiritual growth toward maturity as followers imitate the model of perfection
1 Peter 1:6-7, 13-16
3. PRESENCE and POWER of sin in the believer's life disappears totally in time eternal
Revelations: 21-22

for atonement... Hebrew 3725...kippur...atonement (only in 8 OT books?)

Exodus 29:36
“Each day you shall offer a bull as a sin offering for atonement, and you shall purify the altar when you make atonement for it, and you shall anoint it to consecrate it.

the atonement. ...Greek 2643....katallage...adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

Romans 5:11 (KJV)
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT.

Romans 5:11 (NASB)
And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the RECONCILIATION.

for "substitution"

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died FOR our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the just (Jesus) FOR the unjust (mankind),
so that He might bring us to God, (reconciliation/salvation)
having been put to death in the flesh,(unjust bloody death)
but made alive in the spirit;(resurrection, appearances, ascension)

Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Colossians 1
19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of DEITY) to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

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FreeGrace2 said:

If it really does, then Jesus was wrong in John 10:28, the verse that skewers your claim that faith must continue.

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justbyfaith said:

How do you know what their motives are?

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justbyfaith said:

How so? Please elaborate so I can see your point of view more clearly.

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justbyfaith said:

And it is not only my claim, but the claim of the scriptures, that faith must continue.

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justbyfaith said:

Anytime anyone leaves something out of a quote, it is always good to go back to the original quote and see what they left out; because that is something that they cannot answer. They are defeated in that argument. i.e. post #2659 and #2641.

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FreeGrace2 said:

If one is trying to make a point, it would be helpful to add some actual specifics, you know, some context to explain their claim.

How would anyone understand what you're trying to point out by just going back to the 2 posts you note?

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FreeGrace2 said:

I said this:
"If it really does, then Jesus was wrong in John 10:28, the verse that skewers your claim that faith must continue."

I've done it many times and am glad to do it again. I do want you to understand.

Your claim is that faith must continue in order to never perish.

Jesus taught the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life in one statement in John 10:28.

The CAUSE of having eternal life is Jesus Himself, as the Giver of eternal life by the phrase, "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing, by the phrase, "and they (recipients of eternal life) shall never perish".

Your claim inserts a condition on recipients for never perishing, but Jesus did NO SUCH THING.

So, your claim is skewered by John 10:28. Or refuted, if that word is more clear.

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Gr8Grace said:

Oh, I don't know..................Because they TELL US!

By their fruits you will know them.....our doctrines are our fruit. Unbelievers give to the poor.Unbelievers love. Unbelievers have hope. Unbelievers give lip service to Jesus. Unbelievers believe that if they act pretty close to how Jesus acted that they are good to go with salvation.

By their DOCTRINES/FRUIT we will know them. Because they can fool us with their works/deeds/lifestyle/behavior.

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justbyfaith said:

Someone can have all their doctrines biblically sound, but if they don't have a relationship with Jesus it won't avail for them. Likewise if someone has relationship but is off on doctrine, that will correct in time, and in the meantime they are known of God. 2 Corinthians 8:1-3, John 5:39-40.

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justbyfaith said:

Because there is something missing in the latter post (#2659) that is not missing in the former (#2641). All they have to do is look and see what is not missing in the original post (#2641).

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justbyfaith said:

re #2670:

Hebrews 3:14 teaches us that we simply are not partakers of Christ (i.e. not saved) unless we hold the beginning of our confidence STEDFAST TO THE END.

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