The Death of Jesus Christ and Judas

Alpha.Omega · May 2, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Judas left with the dipping of a piece of bread (sop), so Judas was not present with the wine (blood) and bread - body .
Satan entered into Judas right at the timing of the sop. And Satan drives Judas away from Christ to betray Him.

Luke 22, Satan enters Judas before the last supper, so from here on Judas is under the influence of Satan.

Luke 22 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Plot to Kill Jesus
22 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people.

3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude.

In John this giving of a piece of bread was not the wording Christ gave to the 11 disciples about it being His body broken for them. Judas departs immediately after having received this piece of bread, at the instigation of Peter 's request, the body-bread, blood-wine ceremony seemingly occurred later on after Judas had already departed. The commonality of this, the non solemnity is shown by the disciples response to Judas leaving the table. AND Judas did not come back to the table, the LORD commanded Judas to go immediately out and do this thing quickly.

John 12
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke.

25 Then, leaning back on Jesus’ breast, he said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him. 29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had said to him, “Buy those things we need for the feast,” or that he should give something to the poor.

30 Having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately. And it was night.

AND Judas was not present for all the teaching from John 14 and forward which Jesus taught to His disciples.

Look at Luke 22:21, and you will see that Judas was there and did take the Lord's Supper, which is also admitted to by John Gill and Matthew Henry.

Mountainmanbob · May 2, 2018

Alpha.Omega said:
Look at Luke 22:21, and you will see that Judas was there and did take the Lord's Supper, which is also admitted to by John Gill and Matthew Henry.

I would think that over the many years thousands and thousands of ones taking the Lord's Supper were still destined to go to hell? They were either deliberately playing a game or self-deceived? For it means nothing unless one is Born Again.

M-Bob

Alpha.Omega · May 2, 2018

Mountainmanbob said:
I would think that over the many years thousands and thousands of ones taking the Lord's Supper were still destined to go to hell? They were either deliberately playing a game or self-deceived? For it means nothing unless one is Born Again.

M-Bob

Sadly very true. I have suggest that Judas was ever saved, but point point out that he is not one of the "elect", and yet clearly Jesus did die for him. As we also read in 2 Peter 2:1, that Jesus "bought" by His blood, the false prophets and false teachers and other heretics, who reject the Salvation in Jesus, as did the Jews in Acts 13:46.

ewq1938 · May 2, 2018

JLB777 said:
Judas followed Jesus for over 3 years as a disciple, then was made an Apostle, and empowered to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, cast out devils, and cleanse the lepers, then he became a traitor.

I don't recall the bible saying he did any of those things. He was a disciple only to betray Christ.

sdowney717 · May 3, 2018

Alpha.Omega said:
Look at Luke 22:21, and you will see that Judas was there and did take the Lord's Supper, which is also admitted to by John Gill and Matthew Henry.

I see Jesus though is not speaking to Judas or of Judas, but only to and of the other 11 disciples.
Jesus is saying Judas did not receive Christ, so I don't see how Judas could have partaken of the blood and body ceremony, it seems Judas rejected Christ as God. In that Jesus said He was not speaking of Judas, then it can also be thought of that Jesus was not including Judas in any of His teaching about the New Covenant, and of course this is exactly what happened eventwise. And that would have included when He said those words about the New Covenant in His blood, Judas was excluded. Judas was not included in the New Covenant or Judas would not have been the traitor. Certainly, Judas was not born of God, Jesus called Judas a devil signifying Judas was of the devil, and not of God, so not saved.

So even though in Luke Jesus tells us the betrayers hand is with His own on the table, Jesus is not including Judas in the New Covenant promises, not speaking to Judas personally as a member of His body.
.
John 13
18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’

19 Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.

20 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”

JLB777 · May 4, 2018

ewq1938 said:
I don't recall the bible saying he did any of those things. He was a disciple only to betray Christ.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power overunclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

Sending Out the Twelve

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:1-8

Do you think during this time Judas was a believer or unbeliever.

JLB

Alpha.Omega · May 5, 2018

JLB777 said:
And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power overunclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

Sending Out the Twelve

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:1-8

Do you think during this time Judas was a believer or unbeliever.

JLB

Judas "believed" but was never born again. John 13:10

Micah888 · May 5, 2018

Alpha.Omega said:
Judas "believed" but was never born again. John 13:10

"Believed" as the demons believe. Christ called him a "devil" (demon).

Alpha.Omega · May 5, 2018

Micah888 said:
"Believed" as the demons believe. Christ called him a "devil" (demon).

I am sure that up until the time that Judas betrayed Jesus, before "satan entered him" (Luke 22:3, etc), Judas was indeed one of the Twelve. When Jesus sent them out to drive out the demons, etc, no doubt Judas was also involved. He would have been like the others. In fact Jesus said to all of the Twelve, "Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said...Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward." (Mark 9:35, 41). Where the YOU would have also included Judas, as Jesus spoke these words to "the Twelve"

Mountainmanbob · May 5, 2018

JLB777 said:
Do you think during this time Judas was a believer or unbeliever.

JLB

Apparently Judas was a non-believer who was faking it. Seen in many throughout the ages nothing new Under the Sun.

Not born again and not having a clue cuz it's not left up to me or you.

M-Bob

sdowney717 · May 5, 2018

Certainly we get a clue to understand that Judas was not saved by the words the Christ spoke about that man. What a terrible fate must Judas have fallen into.

Matthew 26:23-24 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
23 And he answered and said, dippeth his hand with me in the dish, he shall betray me.

24 Surely the Son of man goeth his way, as it is written of him: but woe be to that man, by whom the Son of man is betrayed: it had been good for that man, if he had never been born.

Woe to all hypocrites and all who betray Christ even today.

Job 8:12-14 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
12 Though it were in green and not cut down, yet shall it wither before any other herb.

13 So are the paths of all that forget God, and the hypocrite’s hope shall perish.

14 His confidence also shall be cut off, and his trust shall be as the house of a spider.

EmSw · May 5, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Certainly we get a clue to understand that Judas was not saved by the words the Christ spoke about that man. What a terrible fate must Judas have fallen into.

Matthew 26:23-24 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
23 And he answered and said, dippeth his hand with me in the dish, he shall betray me.

24 Surely the Son of man goeth his way, as it is written of him: but woe be to that man, by whom the Son of man is betrayed: it had been good for that man, if he had never been born.

Woe to all hypocrites and all who betray Christ even today.

Job 8:12-14 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
12 Though it were in green and not cut down, yet shall it wither before any other herb.

13 So are the paths of all that forget God, and the hypocrite’s hope shall perish.

14 His confidence also shall be cut off, and his trust shall be as the house of a spider.

But aren't you one of those who say hypocrites are saved as long they believe?

EmSw · May 6, 2018

Take for example someone who acknowledges as a matter of doctrine that charity is the product of faith but nevertheless leads a life of charity towards the neighbour. Even though the truth does not exist with him so far as doctrine is concerned, yet it does exist with him so far as life is concerned, and consequently he has the Lord's Church or kingdom within him.

Or, to take another example, someone who says that good works ought to be done for the sake of reward in heaven, as accords with the literal sense of the Word in Matthew 10:41, 42; 25:34-36, and elsewhere, and yet when performing good works he gives no thought at all to merit. He likewise is in the Lord's kingdom because the truth exists in him so far as life is concerned. This being what he is really like so far as life is concerned, he readily allows himself to be told that nobody is able to reach heaven on merit and that the works which a person regards as meritorious are not good.

So it is with every other example that could be taken. For the literal sense is such that in many places it seems to contradict itself, the reason being that it contains appearances of truth that are suited to those who are engrossed in external things, and therefore who are also filled with a love of worldly things as well as bodily pleasures.

Ron Gurley · May 16, 2018

Taking communion at the last supper then and today does not save.

Judas I. was not a commissioned apostle / disciple of Jesus because he was not a saved believer.

EmSw · May 16, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
Taking communion at the last supper then and today does not save.

Judas I. was not a commissioned apostle / disciple of Jesus because he was not a saved believer.

What do you contradict what the Bible says?

Matthew 10
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Luke 6
13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

A commission is the act of granting certain powers or the authority to carry out a particular task or duty.

Luke 9
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

The things people will do and say to justify their beliefs is amazing. Maybe you should done more research before making such a statement, Ron.

Eloy Craft · May 18, 2018

Remember how they reacted when Jesus said one of them is a betrayer? Only a couple of them knew themselves well enough to not wonder if it was them. What? who? Surely not I? I wouldn't do that! Pretty sure I wouldn't. One was brave enough to want to ask so he asked the one who could ask, to ask. I'm sure they were suspended between heaven and hell waiting for the answer. The contradiction in their hearts played out at the foot of the cross.

For Judas, self doubt came by way of Christ Crucified. At some point long before that he became doubtful of Jesus though, in spite of having been called by the Father, chosen by the Son, given gifts to serve the Elect, yet none of this guaranteed his election. "Lord Lord, didn't we prophecy in your name?" Judas handed Jesus over to sin in his heart before he handed him over to sinners. Jesus watched that process happen no doubt.

Election isn't primarily a vote. It's a person that re-presents a body. That can't be determined until the presentation is complete. Heaven doesn't point Judas out as one who re-presents the Body of Christ.

Whether or not Jesus died for His betrayer is no matter, His intention was to die for all, and His Sacrifice could save all because He wants all to be saved. He put Himself in place of Adam and Adam is all of us as one man.

God made man a self determined creature, so as it pertains to who re-presents the Body of Christ in the world, who are the Elect in heaven, isn't subject to observation unless by heaven. We know that the Elect are called, chosen and faithful and their salvation is certain, but, because our presentation of self is not complete, we can't re-present a Body that is hidden in eternity and the mystery of Divine Providence.

The Death of Jesus Christ and Judas

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