Salvation is by grace alone

1stcenturylady · Mar 2, 2018

quietbloke said:
We did nothing to merit God's favor. Jesus did it all. We have to have faith in Him and His sacrifice upon the cross for our sin. When we repent of our sin and turn to God through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and abide in Him and He in us we are born again by the Spirit of God and adopted into His family. Our good works cannot save us but good works will follow our faith in Jesus Christ. Our merit is through the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for us. Our righteousness is in Him. We did nothing to merit God's favor. It is all of grace. All He requires is faith and everything else will follow.

Exactly!

rocknanchor · May 5, 2018

quietbloke said:
We did nothing to merit God's favor. Jesus did it all. We have to have faith in Him and His sacrifice upon the cross for our sin. When we repent of our sin and turn to God through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and abide in Him and He in us we are born again by the Spirit of God and adopted into His family. Our good works cannot save us but good works will follow our faith in Jesus Christ. Our merit is through the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for us. Our righteousness is in Him. We did nothing to merit God's favor. It is all of grace. All He requires is faith and everything else will follow.

Right, The world cannot fathom the glory of worthless humanity reaping the store, and from what I can tell, the popular sentiment of a lot of Christians is to bypass a babe’s carnality and respond accordingly.

When Christ died for the ungodly to be received as a gift, it was an unmerited gift because in that point of a Christian’s life, they are not equipped and are in no condition to do “good works” aside from willingly being cared for, being as carnal babes in Christ, including the care of discipleship (1 Corinthians 3:1).

If I say ‘salvation is always to be earned’, that should receive an instant rejection.

If I say ‘salvation is effortless, always’, this too should fail, shouldn’t it?

For neither can lay claim to perfect salvation. If this much is agreed, why isn’t the chronological order where they are to be applied agreed; Milk for the carnal, meat for the spiritual?

I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

Jesus (John 4:32)

Thanks be to God for producing in us from babes to maturity the two-fold fruit of the gift of salvation, transferring deliverance as well as the Spirit to us. But some faltering still results in some Christians over the full course of “no longer being as children”. After receiving the gift freely, mistakenly letting faith alone sustain oneself thereafter, I would say that does not constitute good works.

The Gift (Holy Spirit) produces (we can’t do it) the fruit of your faith, good works.

“. .a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.”

James 2:24

Once Christ is received and spiritual oversight (shepherding) remains worthy of his hire to lead babes to safety, these two seem to proceed from salvation and relate.

‘You must be born again.’

‘But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness’

(John 3:7, Matthew 6:33)

The concern then for attaining righteousness sprung from salvation may then be seen in renewal and bearing of fruit.

quietbloke · May 5, 2018

rocknanchor said:
Right, The world cannot fathom the glory of worthless humanity reaping the store, and from what I can tell, the popular sentiment of a lot of Christians is to bypass a babe’s carnality and respond accordingly.

When Christ died for the ungodly to be received as a gift, it was an unmerited gift because in that point of a Christian’s life, they are not equipped and are in no condition to do “good works” aside from willingly being cared for, being as carnal babes in Christ, including the care of discipleship (1 Corinthians 3:1).

If I say ‘salvation is always to be earned’, that should receive an instant rejection.

If I say ‘salvation is effortless, always’, this too should fail, shouldn’t it?

For neither can lay claim to perfect salvation. If this much is agreed, why isn’t the chronological order where they are to be applied agreed; Milk for the carnal, meat for the spiritual?

I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

Jesus (John 4:32)

Thanks be to God for producing in us from babes to maturity the two-fold fruit of the gift of salvation, transferring deliverance as well as the Spirit to us. But some faltering still results in some Christians over the full course of “no longer being as children”. After receiving the gift freely, mistakenly letting faith alone sustain oneself thereafter, I would say that does not constitute good works.

The Gift (Holy Spirit) produces (we can’t do it) the fruit of your faith, good works.

“. .a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.”

James 2:24

Once Christ is received and spiritual oversight (shepherding) remains worthy of his hire to lead babes to safety, these two seem to proceed from salvation and relate.

‘You must be born again.’

‘But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness’

(John 3:7, Matthew 6:33)

The concern then for attaining righteousness sprung from salvation may then be seen in renewal and bearing of fruit.

Amen to that dear 'rock' Good works will always follow true faith in Christ Jesus!

com7fy8 · May 5, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
This is true for the entire world. But God isn't saving the entire world? If we are saved, what did we do and are we doing that the world is not doing?

Even in Strong's Concordance and Lexicon, grace is "favor," not UNMERITED favor.

But it is unmerited, and if you want to get technical, Mr. Strong also does not say MERITED favor.

Jesus merited the favor, for us, on the cross. We did not do this. The way we have been in sin, we could not die right for our own sins, we could not please and satisfy God enough in how we might die for our own selves. We would have been boasting how great our sacrifice is, or crying about dying, screaming, fighting, denying that we deserve to die. But Jesus died right, "a sweet-smelling aroma" (in Ephesians 5:2).

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 4:17)

So, Jesus God's own beloved Son is well pleasing to our Father enough to satisfy Him to forgive any and all evil things which humans even of "the whole world" have committed.

And He has gained reconciliation, not only pardon.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" (in 1 Corinthians 5:19).

This says "the world" was being reconciled. But not all have obeyed this. God is ready, all is prepared, because of the merit of Jesus, but humans have refused, because of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). And I will offer > we humans all have been the same, in Satan's evil spirit of disobedience. None of us has made ourselves become meritorious and pleasing enough to get our own selves reconciled with God >

"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

So, God is to be "thanked"; it is by merit of God who has had mercy on us.

So, it is wise not to give glory and credit and worship and praise to your own human free will which is separate from God and in sin. Our own human wills do not have the merit and sufficiency to of our own selves do God's will. We need to be with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17) and how He has us succeeding > instead of bleeding and struggling, snuggling with Him (Romans 5:5, Jude 20-21).

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (in 2 Corinthians 12:9)

Our Apostle Paul says "God gave the increase" (in 1 Corinthians 3:6). Paul did the preaching to reach people, but God is the One produced the result, in us.

1stcenturylady · May 5, 2018

com7fy8 said:
But it is unmerited, and if you want to get technical, Mr. Strong also does not say MERITED favor.

Jesus merited the favor, for us, on the cross. We did not do this. The way we have been in sin, we could not die right for our own sins, we could not please and satisfy God enough in how we might die for our own selves. We would have been boasting how great our sacrifice is, or crying about dying, screaming, fighting, denying that we deserve to die. But Jesus died right, "a sweet-smelling aroma" (in Ephesians 5:2).

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 4:17)

So, Jesus God's own beloved Son is well pleasing to our Father enough to satisfy Him to forgive any and all evil things which humans even of "the whole world" have committed.

And He has gained reconciliation, not only pardon.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" (in 1 Corinthians 5:19).

This says "the world" was being reconciled. But not all have obeyed this. God is ready, all is prepared, because of the merit of Jesus, but humans have refused, because of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). And I will offer > we humans all have been the same, in Satan's evil spirit of disobedience. None of us has made ourselves become meritorious and pleasing enough to get our own selves reconciled with God >

"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

So, God is to be "thanked"; it is by merit of God who has had mercy on us.

So, it is wise not to give glory and credit and worship and praise to your own human free will which is separate from God and in sin. Our own human wills do not have the merit and sufficiency to of our own selves do God's will. We need to be with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17) and how He has us succeeding > instead of bleeding and struggling, snuggling with Him (Romans 5:5, Jude 20-21).

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (in 2 Corinthians 12:9)

Our Apostle Paul says "God gave the increase" (in 1 Corinthians 3:6). Paul did the preaching to reach people, but God is the One produced the result, in us.

Don't misunderstand what I mean about grace. It is Jesus who gives us the power of the Holy Spirit to be righteous, and not just covered up. Our sin is taken away - we no longer have the desire to sin if we have the Holy Spirit. Romans 6:2, Romans 8:1-9

Before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit on Feb. 9, 1977 I couldn't stop sinning. I tried and tried, and just couldn't. I repented and God filled me with a strength so powerful I never willfully sinned again. The baptism is real, and the reason 1 John 3:9 says a Christian cannot sin. It is all Him. And I love Him so much for it.

The Bible even tells us what grace is, and it isn't unmerited favor, as if you will always be weak but forgiven. That is an error. The Hebrew style of writing called doubling shows that grace is power.

33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

quietbloke · May 6, 2018

Grace will always be unmerited,when it comes to our merit. Jesus will always be the one who did what was necessary for us to receive merit through His grace. The basis for our salvation will always be the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. He calls us to repentence for our sin. We receive forgiveness through faith in Christ our Saviour and Lord. We go on to be baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

quietbloke said:
Grace will always be unmerited,when it comes to our merit. Jesus will always be the one who did what necessary for us to receive meit through His grace. The basis for our salvation will always be the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. He calls us to repentence for our sin. We receive forgiveness through faith in Christ our Saviour and Lord. We go to be baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit

Of course, it is not of ourselves. But what is the substance of grace? That is what I'm talking about. Not whether we deserve it or not.

rocknanchor · May 6, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Of course, it is not of ourselves. But what is the substance of grace? That is what I'm talking about. Not whether we deserve it or not.

I was giving this some thought last night, and without giving preference to the many will resort to saying there are times when scripture speaks of grace in terms of power and sometimes not and sometimes the conditions or lack thereof as we are customarily aware.

it remains in my thinking more closely resembling His presence of purpose if all resulting effects of power, virtue and providence were taken into account.

quietbloke · May 6, 2018

Grace will always be unmerited outside of Christ!

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

rocknanchor said:
I was giving this some thought last night, and without giving preference to the many will resort to saying there are times when scripture speaks of grace in terms of power and sometimes not and sometimes the conditions or lack thereof as we are customarily aware.

it remains in my thinking more closely resembling His presence of purpose if all resulting effects of power, virtue and providence were taken into account.

This is the result of God's grace.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

quietbloke said:
Grace will always be unmerited outside of Christ!

Did you read my post to you?

quietbloke · May 6, 2018

Which post is that?

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

quietbloke said:
Which post is that?

27

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

rocknanchor said:
I was giving this some thought last night, and without giving preference to the many will resort to saying there are times when scripture speaks of grace in terms of power and sometimes not and sometimes the conditions or lack thereof as we are customarily aware.

it remains in my thinking more closely resembling His presence of purpose if all resulting effects of power, virtue and providence were taken into account.

The reason why this is important is because "unmerited favor" has left many including Augustine to believe our sins are just covered, but remain. That is not why Jesus came. He came to TAKE AWAY our sin, not just cover it up while we keep on sinning. No. The power of grace is that is takes away the DESIRE TO SIN. SIN IS DEAD. That is why 1 John 3:9 is true.

quietbloke · May 6, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
27

Yes I did and that is why I said that grace can only be merited in Christ

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

quietbloke said:
Yes I did and that is why I said that grace can only be merited in Christ

But is it a cover up of sin, or the power not to sin.

quietbloke · May 6, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
But is it a cover up of sin, or the power not to sin.

Grace sets us free from sin

rocknanchor · May 6, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
The reason why this is important is because "unmerited favor" has left many including Augustine to believe our sins are just covered, but remain. That is not why Jesus came. He came to TAKE AWAY our sin, not just cover it up while we keep on sinning. No. The power of grace is that is takes away the DESIRE TO SIN. SIN IS DEAD. That is why 1 John 3:9 is true.

Of course, those who are not familiar need guidance, "if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us" But in becoming a Christian, sin no longer has power over our lives. We have sin that is now controllable.

Thought I would just point that out

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

rocknanchor said:
Of course, those who are not familiar need guidance, "if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us" But in becoming a Christian, sin no longer has power over our lives. We have sin that is now controllable.

Thought I would just point that out

@rocknanchor and @quietbloke ,

I'm not sure if you have ever heard of the Hebrew styles of writing. The one I pointed out earlier that connected "great grace" with "great power" is one style, called doubling or parallelism. It is the saying of the same thing using different words for clarity. 1 John 1 is the contrasting style using opposites every other thought. When they put numbers to those thoughts they did it perfectly showing the contrast of light verses darkness. The darkness is the unsaved.

Before we begin, 1 John 1:8 is directly followed by 1 John 1:9. 8 is not saved, 9 is how they may become saved.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Do you see that those who confess their sin are completely cleansed of all unrighteousness? Are they still a sinner? Of course not. Now look at this Hebrew style in 5-10 altogether.

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

A Greek style would have lumped all the red together as one thought, and all the blue together as the contrasting thought.

The same style is found in 1 John 3 contrasting the thoughts of Jesus and of the devil. (The numbering is not perfect.)

5 And you know t4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. That He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Of course, we still have free will. But the main desire put in us is to love God and man. And to hate sin. He has given us all the tools needed to be righteous, but we must steadily walk in the Spirit and not quench the Spirit. That is why there are warnings all throughout the NT by the apostles. But as we overcome each temptation, we become stronger and learn to resist the devil more and more.

1stcenturylady · May 6, 2018

com7fy8 said:
But it is unmerited, and if you want to get technical, Mr. Strong also does not say MERITED favor.

Jesus merited the favor, for us, on the cross. We did not do this. The way we have been in sin, we could not die right for our own sins, we could not please and satisfy God enough in how we might die for our own selves. We would have been boasting how great our sacrifice is, or crying about dying, screaming, fighting, denying that we deserve to die. But Jesus died right, "a sweet-smelling aroma" (in Ephesians 5:2).

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 4:17)

So, Jesus God's own beloved Son is well pleasing to our Father enough to satisfy Him to forgive any and all evil things which humans even of "the whole world" have committed.

And He has gained reconciliation, not only pardon.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" (in 1 Corinthians 5:19).

This says "the world" was being reconciled. But not all have obeyed this. God is ready, all is prepared, because of the merit of Jesus, but humans have refused, because of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). And I will offer > we humans all have been the same, in Satan's evil spirit of disobedience. None of us has made ourselves become meritorious and pleasing enough to get our own selves reconciled with God >

"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

So, God is to be "thanked"; it is by merit of God who has had mercy on us.

So, it is wise not to give glory and credit and worship and praise to your own human free will which is separate from God and in sin. Our own human wills do not have the merit and sufficiency to of our own selves do God's will. We need to be with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17) and how He has us succeeding > instead of bleeding and struggling, snuggling with Him (Romans 5:5, Jude 20-21).

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (in 2 Corinthians 12:9)

Our Apostle Paul says "God gave the increase" (in 1 Corinthians 3:6). Paul did the preaching to reach people, but God is the One produced the result, in us.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Is Jesus full of unmerited favor, or power?

Salvation is by grace alone

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