LDS The Father being a personage of spirit

"2 There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be."(The Godhead Lecture Fifth)Lectures on Faith

Fact is humans have a spirit and body.

The quote is plainly saying the Father is a Spirit alone by nature. The Lectures of Faith were removed from D&C because it contradicts the view that God the Father has a physical body.

"Audians the Anthropomorphites Audians, or “Anthropomorphites,” were a Gnostic sect that held to the teaching that God has a human form."

" late antique patristic statements on Valentinian gnosis.557 In other letters, Theodoret refers to his christological opponents as belonging to these heresies.558 The ... and hierarchy of the Audians were very close to that of Rabbula's church.562 The Audians developed into a heretical sect that depicted God in human form, ..."

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The Church Father Theodoret wrote on this heresy the following, as Chapter IX of his Ecclesiastical History (Book IV), titled "Of the heresy of the Audiani":

The illustrious emperor thus took heed of the apostolic decrees, but Audaeus, a Syrian alike in race and in speech, appeared at that time as an inventor of new decrees. He had long ago begun to incubate iniquities and now appeared in his true character. At first he understood in an absurd sense the passage "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." From want of apprehension of the meaning of the divine Scripture he understood the Divine Being to have a human form, and conjectured it to be enveloped in bodily parts; for Holy Scripture frequently describes the divine operations under the names of human parts, since by these means the providence of God is made more easily intelligible to minds incapable of perceiving any immaterial ideas. To this impiety Audaeus added others of a similar kind. By an eclectic process he adopted some of the Manichean doctrines of Manes and denied that the God of the universe is creator of either fire or darkness. But these and all similar errors are concealed by the adherents of his faction.

They allege that they are separated from the assemblies of the Church.
...
Other church fathers who wrote against it included Jerome[7] and Cyril of Alexandria, who encountered it among some Egyptian monks. Cyril composed a short refutation of their error, which he attributed to extreme ignorance.[8]

1. Epiphanius of Salamis, Panarion, Book III, Haer. 70, Chap. 9.
2. Jump up^ Theodoret, Chapter IX.—Of the heresy of the Audiani; in: Philip Schaff, The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series, Vol. 3, (NPNF2-03) Theodoret, Jerome, Gennadius, & Rufinus: Historical Writings, p. 114
3. Jump up^ Jerome, Epist. vi, Ad Pammachium, referred to in:
   
   James Joseph Fox (1907). "Anthropomorphism". In Herbermann, Charles. Catholic Encyclopedia. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
4. Jump up^ Cyril of Alexandria, Adv. Anthrop. in P.G., LXXVI, referred to in
   
   James Joseph Fox (1907). "Anthropomorphism". In Herbermann, Charles. Catholic Encyclopedia. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company.

"Audianism - Wikipedia

Audianism - Wikipedia


Gnostic Audians God - Google Search"human+form"&oq=Gnostic+Audians+God+"human+form"&gs_l=psy-ab.3...795905.799833.0.800123.2.2.0.0.0.0.353.516.0j1j0j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.izc0PM_HjRk

other sources related to God the Father having a body false teaching are:

NEW ADVENT: Search

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Epiphanius of Salamis

CHURCH FATHERS: Ecclesiastical History, Book I (Theodoret)

CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 57 (Jerome)

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Anthropomorphism

NEW ADVENT: Search

Gnostic Audians God - Google Search"human+form"+theodoret+epiphanius&oq=Gnostic+Audians+God+"human+form"+theodoret+epiphanius&gs_l=psy-ab.3...110794.123635.0.124368.21.21.0.0.0.0.309.2815.0j16j1j1.18.0..2..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..3.13.1946...33i21k1j33i160k1.0.OVCkjSJuT-I

I do not have time to look into this or coment at this time. Got to go.

Thanks all,
Daniel

A meaning of Formed in Isiah 43:10

Isaiah 45:18
The Lord created the heavens— he is the one who is God! He formed and made the earth— he made it firm and lasting. He did not make it a desolate waste, but a place for people to live. It is he who says, “I am the Lord, and there is no other god.

Isaiah 62:5
Like a young man taking a virgin as his bride, He who formed you will marry you. As a groom is delighted with his bride, So your God will delight in you.

Psalm 139:15 When my bones were being formed, carefully put together in my mother's womb, when I was growing there in secret, you knew that I was there—

Basically the word has a meaning of one who is born.

Isaiah 40:28 Don't you know? Haven't you heard? The Lord is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts.

Basically everlasting means He has no beginning or end.

Isaiah 41:14 The Lord says, “Small and weak as you are, Israel, don't be afraid; I will help you. I, the holy God of Israel, am the one who saves you.

Just a verse of encouragement.

Isaiah 43:13 I am God and always will be. No one can escape from my power; no one can change what I do.”

Isaiah 44:5 “One by one, people will say, ‘I am the Lord's.’ They will come to join the people of Israel. They each will mark the name of the Lord on their arms and call themselves one of God's people.”

Isaiah 45:6 I do this so that everyone from one end of the world to the other may know that I am the Lord and that there is no other god.

Isaiah 45:11 The Lord, the holy God of Israel, the one who shapes the future, says: “You have no right to question me about my children or to tell me what I ought to do!

Isaiah 45:18 The Lord created the heavens— he is the one who is God! He formed and made the earth— he made it firm and lasting. He did not make it a desolate waste, but a place for people to live. It is he who says, “I am the Lord, and there is no other god.

Isaiah 45:21 Come and present your case in court; let the defendants consult one another. Who predicted long ago what would happen? Was it not I, the Lord, the God who saves his people? There is no other god.

Isaiah 46:9 Remember what happened long ago; acknowledge that I alone am God and that there is no one else like me.

Isaiah 47:8 “Listen to this, you lover of pleasure, you that think you are safe and secure. You claim you are as great as God— that there is no one else like you. You thought that you would never be a widow or suffer the loss of your children.

God does not like it when others claim they will become a God.

Isaiah 47:10 “You felt sure of yourself in your evil; you thought that no one could see you. Your wisdom and knowledge led you astray, and you said to yourself, ‘I am God— there is no one else like me.’

Isaiah 48:17 [ The Lord's Plan for His People ] The holy God of Israel, the Lord who saves you, says: “I am the Lord your God, the one who wants to teach you for your own good and direct you in the way you should go.

Isaiah 49:26 I will make your oppressors kill each other; they will be drunk with murder and rage. Then all people will know that I am the Lord, the one who saves you and sets you free. They will know that I am Israel's powerful God.”

Isaiah 55:5 Now you will summon foreign nations; at one time they did not know you, but now they will come running to join you! I, the Lord your God, the holy God of Israel, will make all this happen; I will give you honor and glory.”

Isaiah 64:4 No one has ever seen or heard of a God like you, who does such deeds for those who put their hope in him.

verses I did not comment on, are simply there for encouragement.

"The "Panarion" furnishes very valuable information concerning the religious history of the fourth century, either because the author confines himself to transcribing documents preserved by him alone or because he writes down his personal observations. With regard to Hieracas (Haer., lxvii), he makes known a curious Egyptian sectby whom asceticism and intellectual work were equally esteemed. In connection with the Meletians of Egypt(Haer., lxviii), he has preserved important fragments of contemporary Egyptian history of this movement. With regard to Arianism (Haer., lxix), if he gives an apocryphal letter of Constantine, he transcribes two letters of Arius. He is the only one to give us any information concerning the Gothic sect of the Audians (Haer., lxx). He has made use of the lost report of the discussion between Photius (Haer., lxxi), and Basil of Ancyra. He has transcribed a very important letter from Bishop Marcellus of Ancyra (Haer., lxxii) to Pope Julius and fragments of the treatise of Acaius of Caesarea against Marcellus. With regard to the Semiarians (Haer., lxxiii), he gives in the Acts of the Council of Ancyra (358) a letter from Basil of Ancyra and one from George of Laodicea, and the stenographic text of a singular sermon of Melitius at the time of his installation at Antioch. In the chapter dealing with the Anomeans (Haer., lxxvi) he has preserved a monograph of Aëtius."CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Epiphanius of Salamis

I guess I have a few different themes in this thread.

The gnostic Audiani were the one's to teach that God the Father has a body and is not simply a spirit.

That only one eternal, self existing God exists everywhere.

It is my impression that LDS teach that God was once a man and now has a physical like body.

Chapter 5: The Grand Destiny of the Faithful
“As man now is, God once was:

“As God now is, man may be.”

is various places on the LDS official site:

Search"as+man+is+god"

How many generations of gods and planets are there?

Robert L. Millet (Professor, Brigham Young University)
Knowing what we know concerning God our Father — that he is a personal being; that he
has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as our own; that he is an exalted and glorified
being; that he was once a man and dwelt on an earth - and knowing that this knowledge
was had by many of the ancients, should we be surprised to find legends and myths
throughout the cultures of the earth concerning gods who have divine power but human
attributes and passions? (BYU Professor Robert L. Millet, “The Eternal Gospel,” Ensign,
July 1996, pg.53)

Google"Preach+My+Gospel"++"King+Follett+Discourse"&oq="Preach+My+Gospel"++"King+Follett+Discourse"&gs_l=psy-ab.12...669093.669093.0.670553.1.1.0.0.0.0.221.221.2-1.1.0....0...1.2.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.RGnMzhnEUvA

Search"King+Follett+Discourse"

Jane_Doe said:

*bump*

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I must sign off now.

Do you believe there are other gods in charge of other planets?

What is your understanding of the "King Follett Discourse"?

"2 There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be."(The Godhead Lecture Fifth)Lectures on Faith

Jane_Doe said:

Ok, for me to answer this, we got to cover first things first:
LDS believe that there is ONE God.
The Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons. They are all divine and God.
Again, there is ONE God.

Are you understanding that?

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I am taking you at your word that you personally believe there is one God.

But, you did not answer the questions:

Do you believe there are other gods in charge of other planets?

What is your understanding of the "King Follett Discourse"?

Do you believe that God the Father was once a human on some planet?

Sources that I linked to on the LDS official site indicate that God the Father was a human before He created our earth.

"“I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. … When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17)."Lesson 1: The Message of the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

"God is the Father of our spirits. We are literally His children, and He loves us. We lived as spirit children of our Father in Heaven before we were born on this earth. We were not, however, like our Heavenly Father, nor could we ever become like Him and enjoy all the blessings that He enjoys without the experience of living in mortality with a physical body.

....

The Creation

Under the direction of the Father, Jesus Christ created the earth as a place for us to live and gain experience. In order to progress and become like God, each of us had to obtain a body and be tested during a time of probation on the earth. While on the earth we are out of God’s physical presence. We do not remember our pre-Earth life. We must walk by faith rather than by sight.
"

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The Holy Ghost

The personage of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a personage of spirit and does not have a body of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). "4: How Do I Recognize and Understand the Spirit?

The person that I quoted in links in earlier posts is quoted as authoritative here:

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President Lorenzo Snow (1898–1901)

“There is no mortal man that is so much interested in the success of an elder when he is preaching the gospel as the Lord that sent him to preach to the people who are the Lord’s children” (The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow,comp. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 70)."1: What Is My Purpose as a Missionary?

All quotes in this posting are from Preach My Gospel: A Guide to Missionary Service

BigDaddy4 said:

Have they always been God?

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bump