Hostility between LDS and mainstream Christians

mmksparbud · May 4, 2018

Well---I had 2 more young men come pounding on my door----I had had a very bad day having to fight with a TV company who took close to $900 out of my checking account leaving me with nothing, that was going to pay for my husbands ashes!---Absolutely not the right time to pound on my door, esp. when there is a sign that says no soliciting that everyone ignores!!! Again, trying to tell me they do not believe that God was a man before He became God!!---"You haven't got to that one yet?" "Well I'm not about to believe in other non-scriptural theories such as we lived before we were born, either" "but we don't teach that!"---Just how long does it take to get to what they actual believe? I'm afraid I was not at my best and spoke my mind--They tried to tell me to read the BOM and the Pearl-- told them I already did---Well---read it again--No thanks once was more than enough--never again! I'll stick to the bible---Well, we believe in the bible--yes--as long as it does not conflict with JS---they finally left. I'm usually much nicer, but I just couldn't hold back today!
I don't think there will be any more coming any time soon. Sorry--but very bad timing!!

mmksparbud · May 4, 2018

He is the way said:
If you believe that God has existed throughout all eternity then there is no beginning. However the Bible states that there is a beginning. The Bible just does not state what the beginning is of.

Good grief--Genesis is talking about the creation of this world---In the distant past--God created the heavens and the earth---He set the earth and this galaxy in motion--what's so vague about it? He created the earth---it was void, rocks with water--then He filled it--It certainly isn't talking about Him! Don't see what's so confusing about it.

Eloy Craft · May 4, 2018

Jane_Doe said:
f you would like to understand LDS beliefs here, the first thing which needs to be talked about is that LDS don't believe living forever is what makes God God. Rather God is defined by His perfect will, justice, mercy, love, etc. It's not about living forever (though LDS certainly do believe God has always existed). Does that make sense?

Hi Miss Doe. I just want to say thanks for the links explaining Mormon beliefs in a frank sincere manner. Like this one.Becoming Like God Kudos, to ya :oldthumbsup:

Rescued One · May 4, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
I grew up in Mesa Az. Not more than a couple of miles from the Temple. My Mormon friends would tell me that they were taught that going to heaven for them meant making their own world and that's what the God of this world did. Is that not being taught anymore? This was back in the 70's.

Some Mormons try to say it isn't. However, they are trying to be obedient enough to become Gods, and eternal life according to them is the kind of life God has. If it was taught for decades, then people are told it isn't true, then either truth changes or lies were being taught.

“[A] man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.”
Doctrines of the Gospel, Student Manual, 1986, Chapter 10, p. 29; also see Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1955, v. 2, p. 48

"We educate ourselves in the secular field and in the spiritual field so that we may one day create worlds, people and govern them."
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], p. 386

What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds.
“Lesson 29: Exaltation,” Young Women Manual 2, 1993, p. 110

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who have not been married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted."
Gospel Fundamentals (2001), p. 201
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/31129_eng.pdf

Doctrine and Covenants 76:94-95
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

Doctrine and Covenants 88
And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

Doctrine and Covenants 93
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

Eloy Craft · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Some Mormons try to say it isn't. However, they are trying to be obedient enough to become Gods, and eternal life according to them is the kind of life God has. If it was taught for decades, then people are told it isn't true, then either truth changes or lies were being taught.

“[A] man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.”
Doctrines of the Gospel, Student Manual, 1986, Chapter 10, p. 29; also see Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1955, v. 2, p. 48

"We educate ourselves in the secular field and in the spiritual field so that we may one day create worlds, people and govern them."
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], p. 386

What blessings await those who live worthy of exaltation? (Godhood, having all things subject to them, having angels subject to them, having all power, living with Jesus.) Point out that just as Jesus Christ was promised all that the Father has, we can also receive all power and dominion, becoming creators of other spirits and other worlds.
“Lesson 29: Exaltation,” Young Women Manual 2, 1993, p. 110

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who have not been married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted."
Gospel Fundamentals (2001), p. 201
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/31129_eng.pdf

Doctrine and Covenants 76:94-95
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

Doctrine and Covenants 88
And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

Doctrine and Covenants 93
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

Phoebe Ann, thank you ! I thought maybe I was barking up the wrong tree. I feel grounded again in regards of Mormon teaching. Thanks for the link too! Christ's choicest blessings to you.

Rescued One · May 4, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
Phoebe Ann, thank you ! I thought maybe I was barking up the wrong tree. I feel grounded again in regards of Mormon teaching. Thanks for the link too! Christ's choicest blessings to you.

You're welcome. God bless.

Rescued One · May 4, 2018

Eloy Craft, The new Doctrines of the Gospel, Chapter 10, p. 46, has deleted the teaching that exalted persons will preside over kingdoms:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/32499_eng.pdf

Rescued One · May 4, 2018

Fairmormon, an apologetic site run by Mormons, says this:
Claims that Mormons hope for “their own planets” almost always aim to disrespect and marginalize, not to understand or clarify. The reality is that we seek eternal life, which we consider to be a life like that of our Father in Heaven. We consider our immediate task on Earth to learn to understand and obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, rather than speculate on what life might be like if we achieve exaltation. Specifics about the creation of worlds and the ability to govern them upon achieving eternal life are not clarified in Latter-day Saint scripture. Attempts to portray these concepts as simply wanting to “get our own planet” are a mockery of Latter-day Saint beliefs.
Mormonism and the nature of God/Deification of man/Gods of their own planets - FairMormon

I'm not here to disrespect or mock Mormons. I've never said what they hope for. I'm here to show their teachings.

Rescued One · May 4, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Well---I had 2 more young men come pounding on my door----I had had a very bad day..."

I'm sorry. They can't go inside to visit widows without another man present.

Eloy Craft · May 4, 2018

dzheremi said:
Mormons are in some sense making the same mistake (not discerning the correct meaning), but in the opposite direction

The opposite direction you sense is that Mormon theology believes human nature assumes divine nature. Historical Christianity believes that the Divine Nature (The Word of God)assumed human nature. In other words Mormon teaching is that a man can become God but God doesn't become a man. It isn't reasonable to believe that man created God which is what the first father that ascended to Godhood would have to do. For us God came down from heaven and became man, for Mormons man went up to heaven and became God.
We know this isn't what is revealed.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

John 8:23
He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.

John 3:31
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

Eloy Craft · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Eloy Craft, The new Doctrines of the Gospel, Chapter 10, p. 46, has deleted the teaching that exalted persons will preside over kingdoms:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/32499_eng.pdf

Thanks Phoebe. Very foreign to us that Divine Revelation contradicts it'self. Theophanies of the OT always confirm and added deeper meaning to what was revealed before.

twin.spin · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Eloy Craft, The new Doctrines of the Gospel, Chapter 10, p. 46, has deleted the teaching that exalted persons will preside over kingdoms:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/32499_eng.pdf

I have been having internet service problems lately ... on my screen after looking at the link, there is a p. 45 and p. 47 --- no p. 46.

P.46 (if there is one) is entirely white and appears to be at the end of chapter 12.

Is that the case with you?

Ironhold · May 4, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
The opposite direction you sense is that Mormon theology believes human nature assumes divine nature. Historical Christianity believes that the Divine Nature (The Word of God)assumed human nature. In other words Mormon teaching is that a man can become God but God doesn't become a man. It isn't reasonable to believe that man created God which is what the first father that ascended to Godhood would have to do. For us God came down from heaven and became man, for Mormons man went up to heaven and became God.
We know this isn't what is revealed.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 6:62
Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

John 8:23
He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.

John 3:31
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father

Everything in the LDS canon - including the Bible - that points to mankind's ability to become greater than what we are now.

It's not like the concept came from nowhere.

TerryWoodenpic · May 4, 2018

Catholic4Jesus said:
Apologies! I was supposed to say 'less than 1%'. the total 1% had a couple of other denominations mentioned in it. Hopefully Phoebe Ann and NYCGuy see this thread and chime in with their opinions and experiences

if you want to ensure that they are notified Write their name as @user name in full
Such as @Phoebe Ann they will then get an alert.

BigDaddy4 · May 4, 2018

He is the way said:
Paul knew we could be equal to God:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:14 - 15)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Neither of those scriptures back up your claim that Paul thought he could achieve godhood through progression. That's your religion talking, not Scripture.

He is the way · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
To whom was it said?

10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

First a Psalm to David:
(Old Testament | Psalms 82:1 - 8)

1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Second to the Jews:
(New Testament | John 10:31 - 35)

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Yes Jesus is the Savior and God of covenant God to the Jews:
(Old Testament | Exodus 6:7)

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

He is the way · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
God had no beginning. Man did.

We all existed prior to our earth life:

(Old Testament | Job 38:4 - 7)

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

He is the way · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
They are created beings, a species separate from man.

Not Biblical.

He is the way · May 4, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
There was a beginning, God is in it with His creatures. The actor can't be the act. If the act creates everything that is not the actor, then all things find their ultimate source of being IN that beginning.

Now if all that God created isn't all, but contains the God of this universe, and exists in a prior universe, and if that's what the author meant his readers to understand, Genesis would read "when God created" That wouldn't be mysterious at all and would be easily understood by any reader. But time didn't exist until it existed 'IN' the beginning.

Reference please.

He is the way · May 4, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Zero angels are brothers to humans, zero existed eternally, angels are a separate species.

Reference needed.

Hostility between LDS and mainstream Christians

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Myth only points, Truth happened!

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Myth only points, Truth happened!

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Myth only points, Truth happened!

Myth only points, Truth happened!

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

Member

Well-Known Member

It's a new season...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads