Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?
- Thread starter John tower
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The first 300 year after the ascension of Jesus the church held the belief of free will (and probably held it as a whole until the reformation) ...
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OK, your all arguing again, some saying "your following this teacher or that teacher." Ect ect...
Well, what does "the Bible" "truly say on the matter", cause that is all that matters...
Does the Bible "truly say" that God is truly in control, or more appropriately; that he directly, specifically, "controls every little thing", or all things...? or just some things...? (yet is still "in control" of all things, yet does not have "to control every little thing", to be "in control", or control all things)...?
What does the Bible truly say on this matter...?
Or does it (the Bible now) say that God is, yes, "in control" of all things, but, does not have to be in control, or directly "control" "every little thing", to be in "overall control" of all things...?
What does the Bible truly say on this matter...?
Oh, and where I use the word "things" we can also say "people" as in some people, or all people, ect...
God Bless!
Well, what does "the Bible" "truly say on the matter", cause that is all that matters...
Does the Bible "truly say" that God is truly in control, or more appropriately; that he directly, specifically, "controls every little thing", or all things...? or just some things...? (yet is still "in control" of all things, yet does not have "to control every little thing", to be "in control", or control all things)...?
What does the Bible truly say on this matter...?
Or does it (the Bible now) say that God is, yes, "in control" of all things, but, does not have to be in control, or directly "control" "every little thing", to be in "overall control" of all things...?
What does the Bible truly say on this matter...?
Oh, and where I use the word "things" we can also say "people" as in some people, or all people, ect...
God Bless!
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John will quote from Eph 1 again ....
What I find weird is that John says there is no need for interpretation, but still he interprets verses the way he likes it. When it doesn't suit his doctrine, then he interprets it to do. Like when the bible says that Jesus died for all men, he interprets it to mean some men.
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I see, so there is no way to resolve it then...?John will quote from Eph 1 again ....
What I find weird is that John says there is no need for interpretation, but still he interprets verses the way he likes it. When it doesn't suit his doctrine, then he interprets it to do. Like when the bible says that Jesus died for all men, he interprets it to mean some men.
God Bless!
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!
Could care less about calvin : everything I teach I get straight from the bible : If you check all my posts you will see I never ever quote calvin , only the bible : so stop making false accusations against me : This is flaming !
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Eph 1(11): Him who works all things after the counsel of his own will ! This is the exact quote :I am not interpreting it in any way : so don't make false accusations : this is close to flaming !
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Your while post was just all babbling in your own reasonings : not a single scripture in the whole post : I don't listen to the private reasonings of men but God's word : Rom 8(23): We were deliberately given fallible bodies subject to sinning and falling for our deliberate educational process by God : If we don't make mistakes , we cannot learn : though they are not really mistakes but deliberately ordained by God for our education , otherwise God would not have put us in fallible bodies !
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Romans 8:23 says this:
Romans 8:23 NASB And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
What you said is almost entirely your interpretation/explanation of that verse, or in your own words, "babbling in your own reasonings", not a direct statement of what that Scripture actually says.
Just sayin'...
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- Mar 4, 2005
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Not true.
I referred to several Scriptures; I just didn't give the references, except Psalm 8, which you clearly missed. But just to save you the trouble of looking them up;
Proverbs 3:34; Proverbs 8:13; Isaiah 16:6; Isaiah 25:11; Luke 1:51; Romans 1:30; 1 Corinthians 5:6; James 4:6.
That should be enough to begin with.
Isaiah 14:12-13; Revelation 12:7-9
Proverbs 16:18
Genesis 1:26-27
Psalms 8:4-5
Matthew 26:28; Mark 10:45; Luke 19:10; John 3:16; Romans 5:6-8; Ephesians 1:7-8; 2 Corinthians 5:19; Colossians 1:20-22.
Exodus 17:9; Joshua 3:12; Joshua 24:15; Joshua 24:22; 1 Kings 18:21.
And many other examples of people making choices.
No Scripture for this, it is not Scriptural.
John 12:31.
Psalms 10:16; Psalms 24:7-10; Psalms 47:7; John 1:49; Revelation 15:3; Revelation 17:14.
Read Genesis 3, that is clearly not what happened. God is omnipotent and knows everything.
Deuteronomy 1:32-36.
Genesis 2:7.
He gave Adam a command - he did not force him to keep it.
Yet i have quoted many Scriptures - God's word - in my previous posts and you haven't replied to them.
Eg;
Ooops, no Scripture.
Where does it say that the Lord, who IS love, 1 John 4:8, IS light, with no darkness in him, 1 John 1:5 IS perfect, Matthew 5:48, and who saw that everything he had made was very good, Genesis 1:31, deliberately made man fallible, capable of sinning and able to fall? Why would he do that - just so that he could show us how good he was by saving us? Scripture?
So we make mistakes, sin and get punished by God - except that they were not really mistakes or our fault, but something that he dreamed up to teach us?
So God punishes and corrects us for something which was his doing in the first place? Scripture?
Jesus said that even human fathers, who are not perfect, would not give their sons a snake when they asked for a fish, or a stone if they asked for bread. Even sinful people know how to do what's best for their children - how much more so does God who IS perfect? Luke 11:11-13; Matthew 5:48.
He didn't.
Though you'd rather blame God for sin than admit that man had a choice.
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Romans 8(22): says he deliberately made us subject to vanity : I don't blame God : I credit him : you have the whole wrong mindset : Isaiah 55(8&9) : God's true elect understand these things easily : unfortunately you don't appear to be one of his elect : So I will stop trying to beat a dead horse , so to speak , and leave time for God to open your eyes if he is so inclined , and stop talking to you for now : Only God can give the increase, not me .
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I like to raise the questions: Why is this thread this long and why did the OP feel it was this important to fight for "bound" will?
Because a "bound will" is what scripture explicitly describes.
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Nonsense. I've been saved for years. Jesus is my Saviour, my Lord and my friend.
Oh, you mean that I'm not a Christian because I don't read the Scriptures the same way that you do?
You realise that it's against forum rules to question someone's salvation, or to state that they are not a Christian?
And you're going to stop talking to me? That's convenient; it means you won't have to comment on, or explain, the many Scriptures I have posted to illustrate my points/statements.
Thankfully, it also means I won't have to spend an hour or two looking up Scriptures, only to find that you ignore them and just write your favourite proof text. Which, incidentally, you've got wrong;
Romans 8:22
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Nothing there at all about vanity.
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Then, as one of God's elect, John, you should be able to tell me the difference between God, the Son, and God the Father (the true Father) then...?
That is, If you truly understand these things as one of God's elect that is...?
I'm not going to spell it out for you, cause if you are truly one of God's elect, you should be able to know, and should know and understand it, (what I mean by this) and be able to explain it to us (all) yourself...
God Bless!
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@John tower, and I'm not telling you either, for God's true elect have this knowledge (and more) in them, and full well know what I'm talking about...
God Bless!
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Even if, EVEN IF if it turns out in the end, that we find out we (none, or any of us) really "did not" have a choice, or made no choices, in anything, (in the end, or in the grand scheme of things)... we still have to proceed, and must think like, and/or in a/the way of us, having and making choices in things... cause there just is no other choice, or way to go about it...
Even if we do not have or make choices, we have no choice but to proceed and live like and think like we do have and make choices... Even if it turns out (in the end) that we may not have, cause there is just simply no other (choice) or way to go about it...
Because, even if it turns out this way (no choice) with God and us, God is not going to show us, or let us see in on, or peer in on, or peek in on, how that (not really having a choice or making our own decisions) is that way...
So, we to proceed and think like and as if we do have choice, cause there is no other choice..
We'll find out in the end if we really did or not, but not until then...
Right now, we cannot know... And, because we "cannot know", (and really never will know, in this life) (but in the next only) we must proceed as if we do have a choice and proceed and think from there, cause there is just simply no other choice to go about as if we do (a) choice...
God Bless!
Even if we do not have or make choices, we have no choice but to proceed and live like and think like we do have and make choices... Even if it turns out (in the end) that we may not have, cause there is just simply no other (choice) or way to go about it...
Because, even if it turns out this way (no choice) with God and us, God is not going to show us, or let us see in on, or peer in on, or peek in on, how that (not really having a choice or making our own decisions) is that way...
So, we to proceed and think like and as if we do have choice, cause there is no other choice..
We'll find out in the end if we really did or not, but not until then...
Right now, we cannot know... And, because we "cannot know", (and really never will know, in this life) (but in the next only) we must proceed as if we do have a choice and proceed and think from there, cause there is just simply no other choice to go about as if we do (a) choice...
God Bless!
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However, if absolutely "none of us" really had, nor made "any choices at all", then God is the only guilty one and the rest of us are completely innocent... And, we all, each and every one of us, all "deserve" (even) to "all be saved"... (or get another, second (or first) chance, or life, in the afterlife)...
And, I just don't know whether I believe that or not...
Do you @John tower...?
God Bless!
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