Did the eternal Word of God die at the cross?

Radagast said:

That's so unorthodox as to potentially make you ineligible to post here.

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Sure, that’s what they said to Jesus up on the Temple Mount.

Jesus flat out warned Mary not to hug him when she realized that she was speaking to the resurrected Jesus. She would have fallen right through him!

Jesus appears and vanishes right before people’s eyes. He appears in locked rooms!

You would be the one to report Jesus to the moderators for his unorthodox spiritualism wouldn’t you?

Colter said:

Jesus flat out warned Mary not to hug him when she realized that she was speaking to the resurrected Jesus. She would have fallen right through him!

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C'mon You rejected the wounds on His resurrected body as imbellishment but this is factual? Colter there is some faith in the written Word left in you.

Eloy Craft said:

C'mon You rejected the wounds on His resurrected body as imbellishment but this is factual? Colter there is some faith in the written Word left in you.

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Men are imperfect, it doesn’t bother me that the Bible has errors, it’s to be expected.

BTW, before Jesus came down from heaven, what sort of body did he have?

What purpose would a human body have upon returning to heaven?

Lazarus still had his grave-cloths when he was resurrected from the dead. We can assume that Lazarus would eventually die again.

When Jesus left the tomb, his grave-cloths lay on the table where his mortal body once lay. He is now wearing a white covering of some sort.

I was just in the tomb a few weeks ago during Easter.

Jesus ressurected himself from the dead.

The garden tomb.

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Radagast said:

That's so unorthodox as to potentially make you ineligible to post here.

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Colter is a believer in the Urantia Book religion.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Colter is a believer in the Urantia Book religion.

-CryptoLutheran

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Revelation, the Urantia Book isn’t a religion, it doesn’t claim to be a religion. Pope Francis is familiar with it, which may explain a few things!

Colter said:

Jesus flat out warned Mary not to hug him when she realized that she was speaking to the resurrected Jesus. She would have fallen right through him!

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Actually, no. A better translation of what Jesus said (μή μου ἅπτου) would be "Stop clinging to Me" (NASB).

Christians believe in the resurrection of the body. And, as I said, Jesus ate and drank after his Resurrection (Luke 24:43, Acts of the Apostles 10:41), and the disciples touched his scars (John 20:19-29).

Why do you list yourself as "Christian" if you don't believe these things?

Radagast said:

Actually, no. A better translation of what Jesus said (μή μου ἅπτου) would be "Stop clinging to Me" (NASB).

Christians believe in the resurrection of the body. And, as I said, Jesus ate and drank after his Resurrection (Luke 24:43, Acts of the Apostles 10:41), and the disciples touched his scars (John 20:19-29).

Why do you list yourself as "Christian" if you don't believe these things?

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Why do you pass yourself off as the judge of what a Christian is?

I believe Jesus resurrected himself from the dead. Some Christians think his father resurrected him.

The Son of God is an eternal being, he didn't die, he will never die, his temporary mortal tabernacle died. Jesus has no need for a mortal body in heaven. Why would an eternal being eat food? He returned in a "likeness" of his former human form and fraternized with his apostles and other believers before retuning to his rightful place.

I don't believe in a 30+ year old, floating space man temp God.

Man is dividing into three parts:
1. Body (Sarx)
2. Soul (psyche)
3. Spirit (pneuma)

The Body/Soul mysterious combo is mortal and “houses” Spirit which is immortal.

At death, the mortal returns to “dust”, waiting Resurrection.
The Immortal Spirit returns to God who gave it for Judgment.
Eccl. 12

Luke 23:46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.(Body/Soul combo bled to death)

Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die (Body/Soul combo) once and after this comes judgment (of Spirit)

After the resurrection, Jesus began to appear and disappear. Did his body die each time it vanished ? Did it come alive again each time he reappeared?

What form was the Son of God before he came down from heaven???

food4thought said:

Interesting take... not sure I agree, but I'll have to think on that for a bit.

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I'm just going to elaborate on this one paragraph which you 'may' disagree with. And just so you know, you have my permission to disagree with anything I say. We're all seeking the truth.

"My view today is that the spirit is the 'animating life force' for the flesh and the soul is the 'motivating life force' as to what the flesh will do. Essentially the soul is the brain at work or functioning. And the failure of orthodoxy is that a 'living soul' means a dichotomous living human being, which I don't. Adam was only a 'living soul' as long as he was led of the spirit of God in him. But when the 'lust of his flesh and the lust of his eyes and the pride in his soul' caused him to bite the forbidden, his soul underwent the death sentence and began to die. As scripture says "sin when it becomes mature causes death" physically, on the installment plan."

The spirit is what gives animating life to the body.
ECC 12:7 and the dust/body returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

His spirit is what Jesus surrendered to the Father's hands on the cross which caused him to breath his last breath before he died.
It's what returned to the dead maiden Jesus resurrected in Luke 8:55.
LUK 8:54 But taking her by the hand he called, saying, "Child, arise."
55 And her spirit returned, and she got up at once;

And it is also confirmed by James;
JAM 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,
Hope that helps things a little bit.

I also quote the verse in 1 John in that paragraph because of its correlation to the temptation of Eve and Adam.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world.

When Eve was tempted she fell to all three of the above.
GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

When Jesus was tempted of the devil he overcame those same three roots. Every sin has at least one of those three roots at its source.

"Turn these stones into bread"........................lust of the flesh.
"Showed him the kingdoms of the world".......lust of the eyes.
"If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself
down: for it is written, He shall give his
angels charge concerning thee:"......................pride of life.

Hope this helped a bit with understanding my POV in that paragraph.

Particularly that last sentence; I believe the immediate death they suffered was spiritual death, separation of the soul from God.

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"The "day" Adam and Eve were to die on, had nothing to do with a death in a 24 hour period of time from the bite, in scripture."

Before I explain my POV on my "last sentence" above. Can you tell me why you believe they died spiritually? And back your belief with a verse too if you would.

Thanks for the response, Hillsage.

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Thank you for still responding with grace concerning that which you say you don't understand or even agree with.

1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.

4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.

5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.

6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.

11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

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Colter said:

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

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Bad translation. The negated present imperative here (μή μου ἅπτου) means stop holding on to me.

Radagast said:

Bad translation. The negated present imperative here (μή μου ἅπτου) means stop holding on to me.

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The Anchor Bible and Word commentaries agree.

Radagast said:

Bad translation. The negated present imperative here (μή μου ἅπτου) means stop holding on to me.

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You assume that Jesus was speaking Greek to Mary and not his native tongue Aramaic. Your presumption is based on the Aramaic translation into Greek, translated into English.

Also, following your logic, the first thing the Loving Lord said to Mary, who has just now recognized the resurrected Jesus is akin to "gosh Mary, stop being so clingy"!

I like the more common sense explanation for Jesus' cautionary statement from the outset, bearing in mind how Mary quite naturally would want to give Jesus a great big squishy hug; "touch me not"! She didn't!

Going forward in the other reports of those who Jesus would "suddenly appear" before, did he tell them "touch me not", "don't be so clingy"???

You guys spend too much time in the retrospective world on iconographic explanations for human behavior! The common place men who became followers of Jesus weren't following a wild eyed freak! He was natural.

I will translate into contemporary phraseology:

Mary: "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! Jesus, its you" !!!!

Jesus: "Yes, BUT DONT TOUCH ME!!!! OK?"

Mary: "OK,OK!!!!.....holy COW! ....tears....."

Jesus: "Now go tell the boys you saw me!"

Colter said:

You assume that Jesus was speaking Greek to Mary and not his native tongue Aramaic.

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I'm saying that John used the Greek words that best represented the Aramaic conversation, and that we can take the inspired words of Scripture seriously.

Colter said:

bearing in mind how Mary quite naturally would want to give Jesus a great big squishy hug

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That is natural, although she was more likely to be holding on to Jesus' feet (see also John 12:3). And after doing that for a while, Jesus told her to stop.

We can't just make up things which disagree with the words of Scripture.