GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

1stcenturylady · May 1, 2018

listed said:
Jesus isn't and never claimed to give the ten commandments.

Whose backside did Moses see then seeing as the Father and Holy Spirit are both invisible? All three were there. At that time Jesus was the Word of God.

You can't separate them, they are one. All three planned the redemption of man. And the 10C kept the Hebrews safe until Jesus could come in the flesh. Then the redemption commandments were revealed which Jesus preached. To believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another. Even here you cannot separate them. These are thought of Jesus' commandments, but still by the Father also.

Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father also.

1 John 2:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Marco70 · May 1, 2018

The7thColporteur · May 1, 2018

listed said:
Please explain John 1:17 and Galatians 3:19.

Jesus was the one that came down upon the mount Sinai, with ten thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands of angels:

John 1:17 KJB - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:19 KJB - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Consider:

Jesus is called an "angel" [messenger - all through scripture, see also Malachi 3:1; Galatians 4:14, etc, even "archangel"; Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25 KJB, etc, the highest messenger of the Father], dealing with office, not nature.

Deuteronomy 33:2 KJB - And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

God in awesome majesty came, and said that if anything approached the mountain, it would die, for God Himself was going to give the standards of the eternal Kingdom, from the very foundation of His eternal throne:

Exodus 24:10 KJB - And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Exodus 24:11 KJB - And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

[A covenant meal, upon a mountain, eating and drinking with Jesus.]

The Ten Commandments are not transitory, and are never stated as such, nor implied in scripture to be so, but are eternal, permanent, immutable, even as "...it is written."

Psalms 45:6 [see also Hebrews 1:8 KJB] - Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre.

The Ten Commandments were cut from this crystal blue sapphire throne of God [Exodus 24:10,12 [Hebrew: "tables of the Stone"; definite article ["häeven"], question then becomes, What stone? The very blue sapphire stone of the Throne of God in the very same context], and Exodus 28:28,31,37, 31:18, 32:16 "And the tables [were] the work of God, and the writing [was] the writing of God, graven upon the tables." and Exodus 39:21-22,31; Numbers 15:38-41; Ezekiel 1:22,26, 10:1]

Even the Legends of the Jews, by Louis Ginzberg, picked up on this,

"...Moses departed from the heavens with the two tables on which the Ten Commandments were engraved, and just the words of it are by nature Divine, so too are the tables on which they are engraved. These were created by God's own hand in the dusk of the first Sabbath at the close of the creation, and were made of a sapphire-like stone...." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 3, page 258 - http://archive.org/stream/legendsoft...ut/3lotj10.txt

"...state that the sapphire employed for the tables was taken from the throne of Glory..." - Legends of the Jews, Volume 6; page 49 [see also page 59] - http://books.google.com/books?ei=UWH...#search_anchor

Also according to the Targum,

"...Then it was said to Moses: 83 "Ascend to the firmament and I will give you two tables of stone, 84 hewn from the sapphire of the throne of My glory, 85 gleaming like fine gold, arranged in lines 86 and written by My finger. 87 Engraved on them are the Ten Words, 88 refined more than silver that has been refined seven times seven [ways] -- that is the sum total of the principles..." - The Aramiac Bible, the Targums; by Phillip Alexander, page 89-90 [especially see Note 85] - http://books.google.com/books?id=hDw...page&q&f=false

This is why the Jews placed the blue ribband around their garments to remind them of the Law:

Numbers 15:38 KJB - Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Numbers 15:39 KJB - And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Numbers 15:40 KJB - That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.

Again, it is written:

Psalms 111:7 KJB - The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure.

God carved the Ten Commandments with his own Finger ["...written with the finger of God." Exodus 31:18 KJB; "...written with the finger of God..." Deuteronomy 9:10 KJB], the very work of His own hands [Exodus 32:16 KJB].

Psalms 111:8 KJB - They stand fast for ever and ever, [and are] done in truth and uprightness.

Psalms 111:10 KJB - The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

God directly spoke the Ten Commandments aloud to all, from Heaven [Deuteronomy 4:12,15,33,36, 5:4,22,23,24,26, 9:10, 10:4, KJB etc]:

Psalms 89:34 KJB - My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

God reveals the Truth:

Psalms 119:142 - Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.

Psalms 119:151 - Thou [art] near, O LORD; and all thy commandments [are] truth.

Consider:

Exodus 19:12 KJB - And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

Exodus 19:13 KJB - There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

Exodus 19:19 KJB - And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

Exodus 19:20 KJB - And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

Exodus 3:2 KJB - And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Acts 7:30 KJB - And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

Acts 7:35 KJB - This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

Moses received instruction privately about many other things after God spake aloud the ten commandments:

Deuteronomy 4:14 KJB - And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

Deuteronomy 6:1 KJB - Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

God's Ten Comamndments already existed before Mt. Sinai, thus, God gave further things through Moses because of "transgressions" [Galatians 3:19; 1 John 3:4 KJB] of that already existing Law of the Kingdom of Heaven/God. Thus the difference between that which went inside of the Ark, the Ten Commandments [written by God], and that which went outside to the side of the Ark, the book of the Law, written by the hand of Moses. God instructed Moses in all those things through angels that came to visit Moses, including the Son of the Father himself, the "Angel of the LORD".

Marco70 · May 1, 2018

The Pharisees

Growing up, I imagined the Pharisees as people with horns coming out of their heads, don't know why. Maybe I just thought they would be easy to spot a mile off. But in real life of course, things are not that simple. They fooled the people after all. They, and the teachers of the law dedicated their lives to teaching the people what they must do to attain heaven, and I am sure they endlessly quoted scripture to do it. The Pharisees would have known the letter of the then scriptures inside and out. They were highly intelligent/very learned people, who would have dressed immaculately. And they were sticklers for obeying the law, and insisting the people must if they wanted to attain heaven(or remain in a saved state we could say) They attended all the synagogue meetings, and would have strictly observed a seventh day Sabbath, they did good deeds that everyone could see, they tithed down to their last mint, dil and cumin. They would not have gotten drunk, used foul language, had affairs, nor smoked I imagine if smoking had then been invented. All this they did, and would endlessly have quoted scripture to the people. So why was Jesus so appalled at the Pharisees?
How can you say, ‘We are wise,
for we have the law of the Lord,’
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely? Jeremiah 8:8
The Pharisees turned the law into what heaven hinged on at its core, they used it falsely. What did King David ultimately rely on?

I trust in God's unfailing love forever and ever

Entirely different from trusting in obeying the law to attain Heaven. For David knew, no one could be truly righteous before God under the law:
Do not bring your servant into judgement, for NO ONE LIVING is righteous before you Psalms143:2
David loved God, and knew he was secure in God's love for him, because of that, he obeyed out of love for God, not because he thought he could have a truer righteousness by doing so.
Contrast that with the Pharisees. Heaven hinged on observing the law.

By their attitude they neglected what mattered most:
Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God Luke11:42

It was all about fully obeying the law to enter heaven, that was the bottom line, not God's unfailing love. And so they neglected the love of God, and ignored the greatest commandment of all. They probably told the people they taught what they did out of love for them, so they may have eternal life. Wolves in sheeps clothing. But what was the reality? As the Pharisees focused on the law, that was the bottom line, the people became crushed, downtrodden, oppressed and blind to the truth. They would have imagined the Pharisees had attained on the inside, what they showed on the outside. That would crush the people don't you think? for they, in humility and honesty would know they were not perfect on the inside. They would have been crushed by the teaching of the Pharisees, and become guilt ridden I imagine. But Jesus of course was not fooled. These people, who dedicated their lives to teaching others to fully obey the law to enter heaven, did not practice what they preached:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Matt23:2-4

Paul tells us Christ's law is fulfilled by carrying each others burdens(Gal2:6) The Pharisees failed abysmally to obey Christ's law. They did not carry peoples burdens, they crushed them with burdens they themselves did not even try to bear. So what were these people, who insisted you must fully obey the law to enter heaven/be in a saved state like on the inside?

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. Matt23:27&28
Were the Pharisees of Jesus day the only ones like this? Paul goes into detail about his life as a Pharisee in Rom ch7. He was just like the other Pharisees, full of everything unclean on the inside. He told Timothy he was the worst of sinners. Though outwardly, he would have faultlessly obeyed the law.
And so the people who dedicated their lives to teaching the law to the people and insisted they must fully obey it to attain heaven, did not practice what they preached, and were full of everything unclean on the inside. Would it be any different today?
So why did they like to portray themselves as such Holy people who fully obeyed the law(didn't commit sin) when they did not? Why be hypocrites? Why crush the people and show them no love at all by doing so? Why trample on them that way, and ignore the most important thing of all, love? Because They loved, and sought the praise of men more than the praise of God(John 12:43&John5:44)
It was like: Look at me, I live such a holy life, you need to attain to where I am at. Awful isn't it.
Do pharisees exist today? I would think so, you can find them in churches I imagine, possibly even on the internet

Marco70 · May 1, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father also.

"

No man hath seen God at anytime
1John 4:12

LoveGodsWord · May 1, 2018

listed said:
No what you've done is misapply Scripture.

Then prove it. Simply stating your words over God's does not make the scriptures dissappear. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

listed said:
The problem for a legalist is they require a statement similar to "Thou shalt not observe the 7th day sabbath."

Your false accusations and name calling only shows you have nothing from God's WORD to share and testifies against you.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

LoveGodsWord · May 1, 2018

listed said:
No where in the NT are we directed to follow the law.

We are ONLY saved by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast.

If your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS because you have rejected God's he GIFT of God's dear son (James 2:18; 20; 26; James 2:8-12). If your tree has no FRUIT then it will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matt 7:12-23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

Many do not know why God has given us GRACE and FAITH...

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

God's WORD disagrees with you. Salvation is FROM sin not in sin.

God's LAW (10 Commandments) are the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is (ROMANS 3:20) and it is why Jesus and the Apostles taught it in the NEW TESTAMENT.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT FOR God's LAW in the NEW TESTAMENT linked CLICK ME.

Seems like God's WORD disagrees with you.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

JLB777 · May 1, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Not at all your point and question was understood perfectly thanks and my response in not a cut and paste from the SDA church it is from my own time in God's WORD.

This question was answered with God's WORD in post # 337 (linked) and post # 338 (linked)

You have lied again, which is transgressing the 9th commandment.

You have failed to present any scriptures that instruct the Church as to how we are to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

There is not one scripture in all of God's word that commands us to gather to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

If there is, please post it for us to see.

JLB

EastCoastRemnant · May 1, 2018

listed said:
You should read the text very carefully. Sunday was commonly referred to as the Lord's Day by the end of the 1st century and as early as 50 AD. Scripture and historical records back this up.

Please provide said scripture... I could care less what was "commonly believed" I want to know what the Bible says... how about you?

LoveGodsWord · May 1, 2018

JLB777 said:
You have lied again, which is transgressing the 9th commandment. You have failed to present any scriptures that instruct the Church as to how we are to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

Hello JBL,

God's WORD is not a lie it is the truth and it does indeed disagree with your teaching.

I refer to you post # 370 linked (CLICK ME) with all the attached links with scripture proving your statement above in error.

If you disagree please respond to the posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with you. As said to others if you cannot respond to the scriptures that disagree with you it only shows your in error.

JLB777 said:
There is not one scripture in all of God's word that commands us to gather to worship Jesus on the Sabbath. If there is, please post it for us to see. JLB

God's WORD disagrees with you...

Now you already agreed there is no scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY.

Now if there is NO scripture that says God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLSIEHD and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY where is your argument?

Why would God need to give any of the 10 commandments again when they were already given to mankind 4000 years earlier and God's people already had them?

Scripture has already been provided to you answering your questions in relation to God's Sabbath in the NEW TESTAMENT. You have chosen to ignore it.

Building on the OLD TESTAMENT in the NEW TESTAMENT .....

In your view...

1. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. Jesus IS NOT OUR EXAMPLE who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that if break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7. Jesus DID NOT TEACH that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

8. Paul DID NOT WARN US that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

9. Paul DID NOT KEEP the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:14-15; 42-44; Acts 16:13; Acts 17-1-2; Acts 18:4-5)

10. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter DID NOT KEEP the Sabbath and taught there is 10 Commandments which includes the Sabbath and if you break anyone of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12; Romans 7:7; 3:20; 1 John 3:4).

Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENET scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6)

................

For me I choose to BELIEVE God's WORD and the teachings of Jesus, Paul, James, Peter and John who all disagree with your teaching.

If you disagree it is ok but if you wish the conversation to continue please respond to this post and the linked posts inside this post with the scriptures in them that disagree with your teaching. If you cannot it only shows you are in error .

................

What it all comes down to is that SIN is the breaking of any of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

EastCoastRemnant · May 1, 2018

JLB777 said:
There is not one scripture in all of God's word that commands us to gather to worship Jesus on the Sabbath.

If there is, please post it for us to see.
JLB

Here it is, although I'm doubtful you'll acknowledge it...

Acts 13:44
And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Have you wondered why the apostles waited a whole week to teach those desiring knowledge? This passage was clear instruction to the church that the seventh day Sabbath was for the purpose of gathering for teaching, fellowship and worship. Oh sure, you'll say "where does it say to worship?" Line upon line, precept upon precept.....

Jeremiah 7:2
Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord.

Jeremiah 26:2
Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lord's house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

Hearing the word of God is synonymous with worship. I can give more examples if you need....

EastCoastRemnant · May 1, 2018

listed said:
Two passages stand in the way of his thinking - John 1:17 and Galatians 3:19.

This the second time you've quoted Galatians 3:19... if the law was added because of transgression, when did transgression begin? How did Cain know it was wrong to kill? How did Joseph know it was wrong to commit adultery? Why was God angry with the Israelites in Exodus 16 before they even got to Sinai saying "how long will you transgress the Sabbath?" Do you think God is that impatient because they forgot something just told to them? Or was it because it was something they had forgotten/failed to do for years under Egyptian slavery? Why was Pharaoh so upset because Moses taught them to rest? What day do you suppose they were told to rest on? That's why God was getting impatient with them by the time the manna came.

The7thColporteur · May 1, 2018

Marco70 said:
No man hath seen God at anytime
1John 4:12

If you would like, I could show you many texts, wherein God was seen.

I will cite from my personal study on Michael the Archangel

Michael is Jesus, the Uncreated and Eternal Son of the Father, as practically all the reformers taught, including Luther, Melanchthon, Geneva Bible, etc., which may be seen here, all the way back to Melito of Sardis - [Link] & [Link]

citing section 09-C:

“...but surely, as it is written, “No man has seen God...”, Right?”

Here are the texts:

Exodus 33:20 KJB - And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 Timothy 6:16 KJB - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 John 4:12 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:20 KJB - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

When considering such texts, the immediate context and the whole King James Bible context should be considered more carefully, for instance:

John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Please notice that John 1:18's KJB reference to “God” is speaking of the person of “the Father”, and yet even so, the text explicitly states that “the only begotten Son” is the person who appeared and “declared” God, the Father, and those who accepted Christ Jesus, have seen the character of God, the Father. John, even repeats this in John 6:46 KJB:

John 6:46 KJB - Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Please notice, that even John 6:46 KJB is not all 'exclusive' of men having seen God, the Father, but explicitly gives the exception [“save he”] by saying, “save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.” All in Christ Jesus, have indeed seen the Father, meaning His character, for Jesus said:

Matthew 11:27 KJB - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 14:7 KJB - If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:8 KJB - Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Hebrews 1:1 KJB - God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

For instance, in Exodus 33:20 KJB, the context reveals that Moses was not allowed to see the “face” of God in the fullness of His Glory, as in Exodus 33:23 KJB, so God hid Moses in the cleft of a rock, and passed by him, placing His hand over him, and Moses saw the back parts of God.

It is those who are not in Christ Jesus that have not seen God, the Father, since they have rejected His character in the person of His Son:

John 5:37 KJB - And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 5:43 KJB - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

3 John 1:11 KJB - Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Various persons of the Old Testament [Genesis to Malachi] and of the New Testament [Matthew to Revelation] have seen and heard God, especially the Son, but even a few prophets have seen and heard the Father [in vision], and some have seen and heard the Holy Spirit in various manifestations of His presence. There are many, many texts to be listed upon request.

Marco70 · May 2, 2018

Beware of people on the internet who claim much knowledge concerning Trinity. As one man said:
Those who believe they have trinity all worked out show how little they understand of the subject. Well put I thought.

Marco70 · May 2, 2018

And you do not need to endlessly quote the word to bring scripture in contradiction with scripture, rather bring it into alignment:

Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Ex24:9-11

No man hath seen God at anytime 1John 4:12

That they may know you(the Father) the only true(true) God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John 17:3

Marco70 · May 2, 2018

In the real world, in Trinitarian churches(including sda churches) roughly 90% of people who attend them will happily accept anyone as a Christian who solely refers to Christ as the Son of God, not God himself. And in those churches, roughly 50% of people solely refer to Christ as the Son of God, not God himself. And why would they believe differently? Ministers don't stand in the pulpit and tell their flock outright and plainly anything else. They certainly do not tell their flock you must believe Christ is God to be saved(or hardly any do)
The internet however, is very different. People with 'head knowledge', who believe they know much, will demand of you, what vey few ministers in Trintarian churches would

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know
1Cor8:2

The7thColporteur · May 2, 2018

Marco70 said:
...That they may know you(the Father) the only true(true) God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John 17:3

Was Jesus [John 1:1; Hebrews 1:8-12 KJB], when he took upon himself humanity [Philippians 2:5-6 KJB], an atheist, or perhaps a polytheist? did He ever seek His own glory [John 8:50 KJB]? did He always honour His Father [Exodus 20:12 KJB]?

Marco70 · May 2, 2018

Perhaps, the experts, could tell us, if we refer to Christ as the one true God. Who is THE God of the one true omnipotent God? Only God, Christ, Paul and Peter all state God is THE God of Christ. I have read the bible many times and never read of a God who is THE God of the one true omnipotent God. Hopefully someone who is knowledgable can give me the answer

Marco70 · May 2, 2018

Its interesting, that initially Ellen G White did not believe Christ was God himself. But, was persuaded to change her mind by those around her. Thought I would mention that as some sda brethren are participating in this thread

The7thColporteur · May 2, 2018

Marco70 said:
Perhaps, the experts, could tell us, if we refer to Christ as the one true God. Who is THE God of the one true omnipotent God? Only God, Christ, Paul and Peter all state God is THE God of Christ. I have read the bible many times and never read of a God who is THE God of the one true omnipotent God. Hopefully someone who is knowledgable can give me the answer

JEHOVAH Elohiym [1 name] [3 persons], Godhead. Genesis 1:1 KJB, In the beginning "God" [Elohiym, true plural, 3+]. Then see that the Father sends the Son [John 12:49 KJB], and then the Son sends the Holy Ghost/Spirit from the Father [John 15:26, 16:7 KJB], for when we ask anything in Jesus' name according to the will of God, Jesus will do it [John 14:14 KJB].

Jesus, in Philippians 2:5-6 KJB took upon himself the "form of a servant".

John 13:16 KJB - Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Of Father and the Son; and the Holy Ghost [who inspired David to write the Psalm; and Paul to use the Psalm in Hebrews 1; and Moses to write Genesis 1:1; John to write John 1:1-3, 1 John 1:1-3; see also Matthew 22:43; Acts 1:16; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Timothy 3:16 KJB]:

John 1:1 KJB - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 KJB - The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Again, in Hebrews, speaking of the Father and of the Son, by whom all the worlds were made at command, speaking, direction of the Father:

Hebrews 1:1 KJB - God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hebrews 1:2 KJB - Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Again, Hebrews demonstrates that the eternal Father spake and the eternal Son, obedient to and honouring His Father, "made" all things.

Again, notice, Father, Son [the hand of the Father] and Holy Ghost [aka, the Finger of God; Exodus 8:19, 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10; Matthew 12:28; Luke 11:20 KJB]:

Acts 7:49 KJB - Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

Acts 7:50 KJB - Hath not my hand made all these things?

Isaiah 66:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Isaiah 66:2 KJB - For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Isaiah 64:8 KJB - But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Job 12:9 KJB - Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?

Job 12:10 KJB - In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

Colossians 1:17 KJB - And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Acts 7:51 KJB - Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Again:

Colossians 1:15 KJB - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus is the visible God. JEHOVAH E/Immanuel, JEHOVAH Jesus, JEHOVAH manifested in the flesh, even God manifest in the flesh of mankind.

Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Colossians 1:17 KJB - And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Colossians 1:18 KJB - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:19 KJB - For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Genesis 1:1 KJB - In the beginning God [Elohiym; 3 persons] created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:2 KJB - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:3 KJB - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Genesis 1:7 KJB - And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Psalms 45:6 KJB - Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Hebrews 1:8 KJB - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jesus said:

Jesus, is JEHOVAH E/Immanuel, the person of the Son. Thus the NT "Lord" [κυριος] is a quote from the OT LORD [יהוה]. This was already shown to you here - [1] This is why it is written:

John 8:21 KJB - Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

John 8:24 KJB - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Philippians 2:11 KJB - And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [a reference to Himself as יהוה JEHOVAH the Son], to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3 KJB - Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord [a reference to Himself as יהוה JEHOVAH the Son], but by the Holy Ghost.

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