The Death of Jesus Christ and Judas

Alpha.Omega

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"When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table. And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!”" - Luke 22:14-22

Here we have the account of the institution of the Lord's Supper as recorded by the Luke, by the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.

Firstly, it is well known to all, that the Lord's Supper as instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ, was to proclaim His death, with the bread and wine representing His body and blood on the cross. Also important is the words that the blood shed by Jesus was for the remission of sins, and according to this account, was done for ALL OF THE TWELVE. The YOU is in the plural number in the Greek. Further, we read Jesus say, "behold the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table", which is clear that Judas would have taken of both the bread and wine. The words of Jesus that were spoken of His pending sacrifice on the cross, was addressed to ALL His disciples. This conclusively PROVES beyond any doubt, that Jesus' death was for Judas also, as His blood was shed for HIM.

Secondly, There is no doubt that Judas was present at the Lord's Supper, and did take part in it, which is even acknowledged by Reformed commentators.

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over" (John Gill)

"By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table." (Matthew Henry)

Thirdly, the timing of the institution of the Lord's Supper by Jesus is very important. He did NOT wait for Judas to have left the room, which was not much later, and then break the bread and give the cup, but did so with him still in the room. IF, as some wrongly suppose, that Jesus never died for anyone who ends up in hell, as we know that Judas has sadly done (Acts 1:25), He would most certainly have waited for Judas to leave, and then say, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you", which is for the forgiveness of sins. The FACT that Jesus did what He did, was to show CLEARLY to all, that His Amazing Love for Judas was so Great, that He still includes him in His death on the cross.
 

JLB777

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"When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves; for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table. And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!”" - Luke 22:14-22

Here we have the account of the institution of the Lord's Supper as recorded by the Luke, by the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit.

Firstly, it is well known to all, that the Lord's Supper as instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ, was to proclaim His death, with the bread and wine representing His body and blood on the cross. Also important is the words that the blood shed by Jesus was for the remission of sins, and according to this account, was done for ALL OF THE TWELVE. The YOU is in the plural number in the Greek. Further, we read Jesus say, "behold the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table", which is clear that Judas would have taken of both the bread and wine. The words of Jesus that were spoken of His pending sacrifice on the cross, was addressed to ALL His disciples. This conclusively PROVES beyond any doubt, that Jesus' death was for Judas also, as His blood was shed for HIM.

Secondly, There is no doubt that Judas was present at the Lord's Supper, and did take part in it, which is even acknowledged by Reformed commentators.

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over" (John Gill)

"By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table." (Matthew Henry)

Thirdly, the timing of the institution of the Lord's Supper by Jesus is very important. He did NOT wait for Judas to have left the room, which was not much later, and then break the bread and give the cup, but did so with him still in the room. IF, as some wrongly suppose, that Jesus never died for anyone who ends up in hell, as we know that Judas has sadly done (Acts 1:25), He would most certainly have waited for Judas to leave, and then say, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you", which is for the forgiveness of sins. The FACT that Jesus did what He did, was to show CLEARLY to all, that His Amazing Love for Judas was so Great, that He still includes him in His death on the cross.

Judas was one of His sheep, then became lost.


Lost = Sinner in need of repentance.



JLB
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Judas was one of His sheep, then became lost.
Lost = Sinner in need of repentance.

JLB
The scriptures had to be fulfilled......I believe Jesus already knew when He picked Judas what He was going to do....

Psalm 41:9
Even my friend in whom I trusted, one who ate my bread, has raised his heel against me.

Luke 22:
1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and scribes were looking for a way to put Jesus to death; for they feared the people.
3 Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to discuss with the chief priests and temple officers how he might betray Jesus to them


John 13:2
And supper being come, the devil already having put it into the heart of Judas of Simon, Iscariot, that he may deliver him up,

It appears to me that Jesus is talking about the Jewish Rulers in Luke 22:2 here in Revelation. Interesting

Reve 2:9
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Reve 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Judas was one of His sheep, then became lost.


Lost = Sinner in need of repentance.



JLB

This is not Biblically correct. There is not evidence in the NT that Judas was ever saved. In fact, the words of Jesus Himself says that he was not

"Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not every one of you.”" (John 13:10, see also 15:3)

can you give a NT reference to say that Judas was saved?
 
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Alpha.Omega

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The scriptures had to be fulfilled......I believe Jesus already knew when He picked Judas what He was going to do....

Psalm 41:9
Even my friend in whom I trusted, one who ate my bread, has raised his heel against me.

Luke 22:
1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and scribes were looking for a way to put Jesus to death; for they feared the people.
3 Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to discuss with the chief priests and temple officers how he might betray Jesus to them


John 13:2
And supper being come, the devil already having put it into the heart of Judas of Simon, Iscariot, that he may deliver him up,

It appears to me that Jesus is talking about the Jewish Rulers in Luke 22:2 here in Revelation. Interesting

Reve 2:9
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Reve 3:9
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie

Jesus had to know, because Jesus is Almighty God! But, God "used" Judas for His purposes, He did not make Judas betray Jesus in any way. This treachery Judas did of his own free will, from start to finish.
 
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Ken Rank

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Secondly, There is no doubt that Judas was present at the Lord's Supper, and did take part in it, which is even acknowledged by Reformed commentators.

Granted... but when Messiah sat down he didn't sit down at a communion table... he sat down at a Passover table. This was a Passover meal... the cups (and breaking of matzah i.e. unleavened bread) were part of a ceremony attached to the meal. He told the Exodus story as they still do today, but he probably used the pictures within the story to reveal depth to his purpose on earth. In other words, he likely showed how the Israelites in Egypt were like us in the world (or in sin) and how Moses being sent to deliver them was like Him being sent to deliver all of us. There is more, but the point is... the meal he sat at was an annual dinner complete with an order of service and the 4 cups drank at the dinner each held great significance. The 3rd cup, the Cup of Redemption, was the cup he said was his blood. This was a very Jewish dinner whether that fits into our Christian paradigms or not. :)

I will say this... I don't care if folks take communion every week BUT... when he held up that cup and said "do this" he help up a very specific cup at a very specific dinner and said "do this." Perhaps in addition to the weekly event... Christians might consider doing it when he did it as well? Just a thought... don't shoot me. :)
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Granted... but when Messiah sat down he didn't sit down at a communion table... he sat down at a Passover table. This was a Passover meal... the cups (and breaking of matzah i.e. unleavened bread) were part of a ceremony attached to the meal. He told the Exodus story as they still do today, but he probably used the pictures within the story to reveal depth to his purpose on earth. In other words, he likely showed how the Israelites in Egypt were like us in the world (or in sin) and how Moses being sent to deliver them was like Him being sent to deliver all of us. There is more, but the point is... the meal he sat at was an annual dinner complete with an order of service and the 4 cups drank at the dinner each held great significance. The 3rd cup, the Cup of Redemption, was the cup he said was his blood. This was a very Jewish dinner whether that fits into our Christian paradigms or not. :)

I will say this... I don't care if folks take communion every week BUT... when he held up that cup and said "do this" he help up a very specific cup at a very specific dinner and said "do this." Perhaps in addition to the weekly event... Christians might consider doing it when he did it as well? Just a thought... don't shoot me. :)

The "Lord's Supper" was part of the Passover Meal, but different because Jesus' Words of His "body and blood" were never part of what the Jews celebrated.
 
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JLB777

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The scriptures had to be fulfilled......I believe Jesus already knew when He picked Judas what He was going to do....

Psalm 41:9
Even my friend in whom I trusted, one who ate my bread, has raised his heel against me.

Yes. He knew.

Judas still had a free will to choose to betray the Lord.

Judas was destined to reign and rule with the other apostles, but chose to give in to temptation and became lost.



JLB
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Yes. He knew.

Judas still had a free will to choose to betray the Lord.

Judas was destined to reign and rule with the other apostles, but chose to give in to temptation and became lost.



JLB

Are you saying that Judas was "born again"?
 
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Ken Rank

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The "Lord's Supper" was part of the Passover Meal, but different because Jesus' Words of His "body and blood" were never part of what the Jews celebrated.
I realize that, I just basically told you that. I said:

He told the Exodus story as they still do today, but he probably used the pictures within the story to reveal depth to his purpose on earth. In other words, he likely showed how the Israelites in Egypt were like us in the world (or in sin) and how Moses being sent to deliver them was like Him being sent to deliver all of us. There is more

I didn't take the time to relay it all because I figured you already knew it. So it was and wasn't exactly the same. He did hold up the same cups and did the same blessing over them that the Jewish people have been doing since long before his time... but also revealed depth to the picture behind them. That isn't "new" that is revealing what was always there.
 
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Being present for or partaking of the first “Lord’s supper“ does not save. The shed blood of Jesus saves those who accept him when called. Judas I. was not called, commissioned, nor saved.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Being present for or partaking of the first “Lord’s supper“ does not save. The shed blood of Jesus saves those who accept him when called. Judas I. was not called, commissioned, nor saved.

Jesus told Judas who was one of the 12, that He was to shed his blood for HIM also. And gave Judas the "cup of His blood". This can only mean that Jesus' death included Judas, as 2 Peter 2:1, says.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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The New Covenant:
Jesus shed His blood for those who accept Him. Judas I. did not. Jesus gave the Great Commission to 11 apostles.

so Luke's account of the Lord's Supper is wrong? It is clear, even admitted by Gill and Henry, that Judas actually took the bread and wine.
 
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Ken Rank

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Jesus told Judas who was one of the 12, that He was to shed his blood for HIM also. And gave Judas the "cup of His blood". This can only mean that Jesus' death included Judas, as 2 Peter 2:1, says.
Let's keep it in perspective... he didn't give him his literal blood... he gave him wine that was used to symbolize the blood he would shed for us. And when we do it, it is exactly what he said it was... a memorial, not a literal drinking of blood. Salvation does not come from a cup of wine... it comes as a gift from God in connection with a certain heart condition centered on God that we would have.
 
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Alpha.Omega

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Let's keep it in perspective... he didn't give him his literal blood... he gave him wine that was used to symbolize the blood he would shed for us. And when we do it, it is exactly what he said it was... a memorial, not a literal drinking of blood. Salvation does not come from a cup of wine... it comes as a gift from God in connection with a certain heart condition centered on God that we would have.

My point is in the words:

"And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood"

YOU including Judas, which can only mean that Judas is included in the sacrificial death of Jesus. This does not mean that Judas was saved by this, but that he was in that sacrifice on the cross. As it says in 2 Peter 2:1, where Jesus is said to have "bought" heretics, which fact they rejected.
 
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Ken Rank

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YOU including Judas, which can only mean that Judas is included in the sacrificial death of Jesus.

First of all, I didn't include anyone. I simply pointed put that your words were starting to sound like the cup of wine saves, it does not. Second, not "judging unto condemnation" means not deciding who's in and who's out. That is God's job, alone. We can learn from Judas, we can teach from his story, but we can't determine where he is because that is God's job to determine, not ours. Yeshua's death was "for all" and all includes Judas. Now whether or not he qualifies... repented... we don't know, God does... so let's not create more division in the body over a topic that isn't ours to determine anyway.
 
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Micah888

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The FACT that Jesus did what He did, was to show CLEARLY to all, that His Amazing Love for Judas was so Great, that He still includes him in His death on the cross.
True enough, even though it availed Judas nothing. So what you have done is disproved the idea that Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement).
 
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Alpha.Omega

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True enough, even though it availed Judas nothing. So what you have done is disproved the idea that Christ died only for the elect (Limited Atonement).

Which John Calvin himself also never believed. There are some who call themselves "Five Point Calvinists", and use T.U.L.I.P. for there theological position. However, as Calvin did not teach the "L", this is a false group!
 
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Micah888

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...but we can't determine where he is because that is God's job to determine, not ours.
Well since God has already determined where Judas is, and told us so, then there should be no question about Judas being in Hell. "Son of Perdition" means "Child of Damnation" and the same epithet is used for the Antichrist (the Man of Sin). And we know that the Devil, the Beast (the Antichrist), and the False Prophet will all be cast into the Lake of Fire.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12).

What did Jesus mean by "that the Scripture might be fulfilled"? There are several Scriptures which prophesy of the betrayal of Christ by Judas, and that he would be replaced from among the apostles.
 
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