Where Is Heaven?

dreadnought said:

People say that heaven is a place (people say a lot of things), but Jesus said that “the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:20 KJV).”

So how do you find it? Try this:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

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Heaven is where God is and God is on earth as well which means it can start here if we let it. If we pursue God's kingdom it will be partly realized here in this life.
The real fulfilment of God's kingdom is in the world to come though. Heaven is where Christ is and to be precise it's first and foremost at the right hand of the father.

Basically heaven is where God's throne is and where he resides and reigns forever.

Alpha.Omega said:

The Bible speaks of a New Heaven and New Earth, and that the old Heaven and Earth "passed away", Revelation 21

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Which ought to be read in the context of the entire narrative of Scripture. St. John in his Apocalypse echoes the words of the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah ch. 65) which speaks of the wolf and lamb laying together, and the lion eating straw like an ox. We also have Genesis 1:31 where God declares that all which He made was "exceedingly good", and Acts 3:21 which speaks of the apokatastasis panton--that Christ is seated in the heavens at the right hand of the Father until the "restoration of all things". Further, St. Paul in Romans 8 speaks of the whole of creation groaning in anticipation for the resurrection of the dead (Romans 8:18-25).

The closest we have in Scripture to the idea of something like a total annihilation of the universe is in 2 Peter 3:10-13, but this passage does not exist in a vacuum, it must be read in light of the entire biblical narrative. Is the point of 2 Peter 3:10-13 that God is going to utterly annihilate every subatomic particle from the cosmos? Or is it saying that the Day is coming when God's judgment shall come and everything shall be put through the fire of this Judgment, and in the end God makes all things new? When we see that Scripture speaks of the innate goodness of creation, that God is unwilling to allow His creation to suffer forever under death and destruction, that God is going to heal and restore all things--then the proper biblical picture is that God is, in Jesus, bringing all things to their intended purpose in Him, which is the redemption and renewal of all creation. Even as we read concerning the Lord Christ, "All things were made by Him and for Him".

God has not, and will not, abandon His creation; but has in Jesus Christ overcome sin, death, hell, and the devil and given His solemn promise that there is a resurrection of the dead and eternal life in the Age to Come when God makes all things new. How things are now will no longer be, for Christ who reigns at the right hand of the Father shall have all things subject to Him and He shall come, in glory, as Judge of the living and the dead, the dead are raised, death is no more, and God will be all in all.

-CryptoLutheran

dreadnought said:

I believe that heaven and the kingdom of God are the same place.

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There is no reason to believe this.

-CryptoLutheran

Walking by faith not sight.

dreadnought said:

Jesus made it very clear that heaven is within us. He's the boss.

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Jesus never said that. He said the kingdom is "in your midst", and He was talking to people who were actively opposed to Him--a hostile group of Pharisees. He was not saying the kingdom is some interior reality that we can find by looking inside of ourselves, neither was He saying that heaven is inside of people--He was declaring that God's kingdom had come in His Person. The kingdom was in their midst, because He was in their midst.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Jesus never said that. He said the kingdom is "in your midst", and He was talking to people who were actively opposed to Him--a hostile group of Pharisees. He was not saying the kingdom is some interior reality that we can find by looking inside of ourselves, neither was He saying that heaven is inside of people--He was declaring that God's kingdom had come in His Person. The kingdom was in their midst, because He was in their midst.

-CryptoLutheran

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Yes because Jesus is the King of His Kingdom

Alpha.Omega said:

Note that Jesus was addressing the unsaved Pharisees here. "within" cannot be the use of the word here.

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If this passage is understood properly, there is no way that Christ would be telling the unsaved Pharisees -- His bitter enemies -- that they had been born again (that the Kingdom of God was within them).

What Christ was teaching them is that while He was on earth, they would not see the Kingdom of God with their naked eyes because it was AN INWARD SPIRITUAL REALITY for those who had believed on Him.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:[YOU WILL NOT SEE IT WITH YOUR EYES] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. [IF YOU ARE SAVED]

This ties in with John 3:3-7 which teaches us that except a man be born again he can neither see nor enter into the Kingdom of God.

The unconverted Pharisees and religious leaders of Israel desired to see a literal kingdom of Israel with the Roman yoke removed. That was their concept of Messiah/King. But they would be taught that the literal, visible Kingdom of God would only be established after the second coming of Christ.

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mt 26:63,64).

And this ties in with Daniel 7:13,14:

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Micah888 said:

If this passage is understood properly, there is no way that Christ would be telling the unsaved Pharisees -- His bitter enemies -- that they had been born again (that the Kingdom of God was within them).

What Christ was teaching them is that while He was on earth, they would not see the Kingdom of God with their naked eyes because it was AN INWARD SPIRITUAL REALITY for those who had believed on Him.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:[YOU WILL NOT SEE IT WITH YOUR EYES] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. [IF YOU ARE SAVED]

This ties in with John 3:3-7 which teaches us that except a man be born again he can neither see nor enter into the Kingdom of God.

The unconverted Pharisees and religious leaders of Israel desired to see a literal kingdom of Israel with the Roman yoke removed. That was their concept of Messiah/King. But they would be taught that the literal, visible Kingdom of God would only be established after the second coming of Christ.

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mt 26:63,64).

And this ties in with Daniel 7:13,14:

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

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Surely the correct translation is "is among you" which is supported by the Greek usage. See #60

Heaven is not a "place" as we usually understand that term. A "place" in the usual sense requires space, but Heaven existed before matter, energy, time and space - the physical universe - existed; and Heaven will exist for eternity, after the physical universe ceases to exist.

PaulCyp1 said:

Heaven is not a "place" as we usually understand that term. A "place" in the usual sense requires space, but Heaven existed before matter, energy, time and space - the physical universe - existed; and Heaven will exist for eternity, after the physical universe ceases to exist.

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Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth which shows it could not be eternal but created in time at the beginning of the universe, from nothing.

dreadnaught: "So how do you find it [the kingdom]?"

Are you asking for GPS coordinates? If so, the closest I can come to directions is to say that you'll find it when you're tall enough to reach Heaven when you're on your knees. Your question reminds me of my pastor's reaction to the Soviet Union's first space launch. The pilot sneered, " I looked for Heaven up there, but didn't find it!" Our pastor responded: "What a silly comment! Outer space is unfathomably vast; and he says he didn't see it from his near-earth orbit?" Duh!

dreadnought: "Jesus said that “the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:20 KJV).”

No, just another KJV mistranslation. Scholars agree that the Greek "entos" means "in your midst," not "within you." In other words, the kingdom of heaven is a spiritual dimenwsion that is already present in the sense that it overlaps with our dimension. Jesus develops this spatial metaphor by implying that the kingdom that is "in our midst" needs to actually "come upon you (Luke 11:20)."

dreadnaught: "Try this: From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17"

Actually, Jesus said: "The kingdom of heaven has drawn near (GreeK: "engizo") and that's "near" not in temporal sense, but using a spatial analogy. Thus, Jesus tells the righteous scribe, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." On Jesus' lips, "near" and "far" are spatial metaphors.