Are Sacrifices Still Necessary?

Deadworm · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life:

Jesus' atoning death is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices (Hebrews 10:8-12). The Jewish system of sacrifice "can never take away sin (10:11)" because Jewish sacrifices are a prophetic type of Christ's ultimate sacrifice. Apart from that, God has "never desired or taken pleasure in sacrifices (10:8)." In fact, Jeremiah teaches that God never instituted the Jewish system of sacrifice in the first place!

"Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh yourself. For on the day I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifice. But instead, this command I gave them: "Obey my voice...and walk only in the way that I command you (Jeremiah 7:21-23).""

God simply accommodated Himself to the Jewish cultural need for sacrifice, a need shared throughout the ancient near east. To God sacrifices are only valid as an outward wtiness to a penitent, grateful, and obedient heart. Thus. in the OT God often directs attention away from literal sacrifice in favor of a spiritualized understanding: e. g. "The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit. A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise (Psalm 51:17)." And the Psalmist can commend "the sacrifice of thanksgiving (107:22)." Your NT texts are simply an extension of OT spiritualization of sacrifice.

Natasha L. Polak · Apr 29, 2018

Our lives are a sacrifice, seperate from repentance because Jesus says we are to forsake the things of this world in order to follow Him. That means not loving our lives to the death, not loving others or our possessions more than the Lord. In that way, we are giving all those things up to God’s control, not ours, as our submission to Him.

John 1720 · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Some claim that Christ abolished OT Law. To make their point, they will claim that it is no longer necessary for Christians to offer sacrifices to God because Jesus fulfilled the OT sacrifices. Therefore we no longer need sacrifices in order to approach God.

The problem with this is that it seems to contradict some important New Testament teachings:

1 Peter 2:5 - you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Peter says that the NT church is a temple of God and a holy priesthood. We are to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable through Christ.

Romans 12:1 - I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Paul says that in light of the gospel, we are to offer our bodies are living sacrifices to God. This is the substance of NT worship.

Hebrews 9:24-26 - 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The author of Hebrews tells us that Christ has made a sacrifice once for all that gains us an eternal redemption and acceptance with God. He brought his blood into the true temple.

The nature and substance of the sacrifices that we offer to God is different in very important ways. We don't need to make animal sacrifices, but we need the sacrifice of Christ in order to gain access to God. Furthermore, the whole Christian life is characterized as a sacrifice offered to God. This sacrifice is not propitiatory like the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ. It is a sacrifice of thanksgiving - us offering our bodies to God in thankful awe of his mercies toward us.

So offering sacrifices is still very much a part of the Christian life.

Dear Tree of Life,
Sacrifices are being made everyday as part of Christian life. Maybe not near as much here in the West as our brothers and sisters sacrifice in the East and in the 10-40 window.

CT’s 25 Most-Read Stories on the Persecuted Church

But though our faith may cost us we press on for the cause of Christ because we know the end of the story is life everlasting with our Lord and Savior. Faith overcomes and faith refined in the fire has far more wealth than mines of gold and diamonds.
While we might not directly experience their suffering and sacrifice, we are neverthe less unified as the Body of Christ in their suffering by our prayers and support.
In Christ, Patrick

In Christ, Patrick

Marvin Knox · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Do you believe that we are called to offer our lives to God?

I guess I need to ask right off the bat if you believe these "sacrifices" we offer play a part in maintaining our salvation.

Exactly where are you ultimately coming from with all this talk of sacrifice being necessary to approach God?

I.e. - If we fail to offer a sufficient portion of our lives to God (refrain from sinning) - do we lose our salvation in your view?

I'm not saying that you are coming from this "works" mentality. I just see it so blatantly displayed here in the forum so often that I want to know up front if your one of those who preach that "other gospel".

DamianWarS · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Some claim that Christ abolished OT Law. To make their point, they will claim that it is no longer necessary for Christians to offer sacrifices to God because Jesus fulfilled the OT sacrifices. Therefore we no longer need sacrifices in order to approach God.

The problem with this is that it seems to contradict some important New Testament teachings:

1 Peter 2:5 - you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Peter says that the NT church is a temple of God and a holy priesthood. We are to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable through Christ.

Romans 12:1 - I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Paul says that in light of the gospel, we are to offer our bodies are living sacrifices to God. This is the substance of NT worship.

Hebrews 9:24-26 - 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The author of Hebrews tells us that Christ has made a sacrifice once for all that gains us an eternal redemption and acceptance with God. He brought his blood into the true temple.

The nature and substance of the sacrifices that we offer to God is different in very important ways. We don't need to make animal sacrifices, but we need the sacrifice of Christ in order to gain access to God. Furthermore, the whole Christian life is characterized as a sacrifice offered to God. This sacrifice is not propitiatory like the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ. It is a sacrifice of thanksgiving - us offering our bodies to God in thankful awe of his mercies toward us.

So offering sacrifices is still very much a part of the Christian life.

the problem with this logic is if one part of the law is reshaped to a spiritual abstract in Christ then why not all parts of the law? So this doesn't help the case for those who harold the law. But this is sort of the point, the law points to Christ so the entire law can be fulfilled by Christ, we no longer have circumcision but spiritual circumcision, we no longer keep a day for the sabbath but instead get our sabbath rest through Christ.

Tree of Life · Apr 29, 2018

Marvin Knox said:
I guess I need to ask right off the bat if you believe these "sacrifices" we offer play a part in maintaining our salvation.

Exactly where are you ultimately coming from with all this talk of sacrifice being necessary to approach God?

I.e. - If we fail to offer a sufficient portion of our lives to God (refrain from sinning) - do we lose our salvation in your view?

I'm not saying that you are coming from this "works" mentality. I just see it so blatantly displayed here in the forum so often that I want to know up front if your one of those who preach that "other gospel".

Our salvation does not and cannot depend on anything that we offer to God. Everything we offer to God is stained by sin and unacceptable to God. But that does not mean that there are no sacrifices in the Christian life.

Tree of Life · Apr 29, 2018

DamianWarS said:
the problem with this logic is if one part of the law is reshaped to a spiritual abstract in Christ then why not all parts of the law? So this doesn't help the case for those who harold the law. But this is sort of the point, the law points to Christ so the entire law can be fulfilled by Christ, we no longer have circumcision but spiritual circumcision, we no longer keep a day for the sabbath but instead get our sabbath rest through Christ.

This is not a problem. We simply need to follow the lead of the New Testament authors on this point. According to NT authors, ceremonial aspects of the law are greatly modified by the appearance of Christ. But moral aspects of the law do not seem to be as greatly modified.

Marvin Knox · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Our salvation does not and cannot depend on anything that we offer to God. Everything we offer to God is stained by sin and unacceptable to God. But that does not mean that there are no sacrifices in the Christian life.

Good answer.

Our salvation (in the ultimate sense of Heaven or Hell) whether it be initial or ongoing, is in no way dependent on the sacrifices we offer through our service and obedience.

Unfortunately there are a great many here in this forum who would disagree with us on this.

DamianWarS · Apr 29, 2018

Tree of Life said:
This is not a problem. We simply need to follow the lead of the New Testament authors on this point. According to NT authors, ceremonial aspects of the law are greatly modified by the appearance of Christ. But moral aspects of the law do not seem to be as greatly modified.

...except the sabbath. But basically what you're saying is there's nothing new in this argument.

GUANO · Apr 30, 2018

mmmm Durer *drools*

Noxot · Apr 30, 2018

mercy is better than sacrifice. what do children have to sacrifice? maybe that's why they are the greatest in heaven, cause the parents are the ones sacrificing for their children.

all hail the incompetent and worthless (priceless) child.

in fact the children just weep for two months and then get sacrificed by their father.

Judg 11:29-40 (YLT)
and the Spirit of Jehovah is on Jephthah, and he passeth over Gilead and Manasseh, and passeth over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he hath passed over to the Bene-Ammon.

And Jephthah voweth a vow to Jehovah, and saith, `If Thou dost at all give the Bene-Ammon into my hand-- then it hath been, that which at all cometh out from the doors of my house to meet me in my turning back in peace from the Bene-Ammon--it hath been to Jehovah, or I have offered up for it--a burnt-offering.'

And Jephthah passeth over unto the Bene-Ammon to fight against them, and Jehovah giveth them into his hand, and he smiteth them from Aroer, and unto thy going in to Minnith, twenty cities, and unto the meadow of the vineyards--a very great smiting; and the Bene-Ammon are humbled at the presence of the sons of Israel.

And Jephthah cometh into Mizpeh, unto his house, and lo, his daughter is coming out to meet him with timbrels, and with choruses, and save her alone, he hath none, son or daughter. And it cometh to pass, when he seeth her, that he rendeth his garments, and saith, `Alas, my daughter, thou hast caused me greatly to bend, and thou hast been among those troubling me;

and I--I have opened my mouth unto Jehovah, and I am not able to turn back.' And she saith unto him, `My father--thou hast opened thy mouth unto Jehovah, do to me as it hath gone out from thy mouth, after that Jehovah hath done for thee vengeance on thine enemies, on the Bene-Ammon.'

And she saith unto her father, `Let this thing be done to me; desist from me two months, and I go on, and have gone down on the hills, and I weep for my virginity--I and my friends.' And he saith, `Go;' and he sendeth her away two months, and she goeth, she and her friends,

and she weepeth for her virginity on the hills; and it cometh to pass at the end of two months that she turneth back unto her father, and he doth to her his vow which he hath vowed, and she knew not a man; and it is a statute in Israel: from time to time the daughters of Israel go to talk to the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite, four days in a year.

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Are Sacrifices Still Necessary?

Deadworm

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Natasha L. Polak

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John 1720

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Marvin Knox

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DamianWarS

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Tree of Life

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Tree of Life

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Marvin Knox

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DamianWarS

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Noxot

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