I am Confused.

aspie3000 said:

I've posted on here many times regarding a variation of the same problem and I will not repeat it. The fact is right now I am in a state of confusion. I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God. I don't know if I'm saved. I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing). I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right. God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter; it says nothing about what I'm going through. Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that. God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

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I would agree with Ronald. I wonder if you actually understood salvation at age 9.

Salvation is simple, many have the idea of trying to do good deeds to please God either for salvation or as some part of it. Totally false. Repent means not to change your actions but your mind.

You change your mind to seeing that you are a lost sinner, someone who does wrong and that the consequences of those choices all earns you a way to hell. The next thing you change your mind to is that God so loves you that He willingly paid for your wrong doing so that you would not go to hell. You change your mind that Jesus paid it all and it has nothing to do with your actions other than believing.

I understand some of the things you have been through. And I to had gone through a time of yelling and swearing at God, even saying very bad things against His holiness, because of the things I was suffering in life.

But all in all I did not want to end up in Hell. Besides my anger I was so numb toward God and having feelings due to so much abuse growing up. I have said the salvation prayer more times than I could count. But it never seemed to last and I never felt really genuine.

I felt desperate and helpless to ever get saved. But then I read the verse that says that whatever you ask the father for in Jesus name he will give you.

So I prayed that verse and said to God I want to get saved but I don't know how. I would say you can't let me die until you save me because I ask for it in Jesus name. I would say I am asking for you to make it possible for me to get saved. Open my heart so that I can actually believe. I would say many things along those lines and I would always say you have to do it because I am asking in Jesus name. The greek word ask actually means to demand.

I am not going to debate that meaning, I only know that I did demand to get saved and that God had to do it because of His word. I prayed this many times all through out the day. It took weeks of non stop praying that, but then the day came when God showed up and I could feel and I understood that Jesus really did pay for all my sins without me having to do anything to earn my salvation. No repentance of sins, no promises of doing some good, it was really a free gift. That day, it became real to my heart and then I was able to believe / have faith in Jesus as savior instead of law giver.

Hope this helps.

Be Blessed.

How could you not be confused while trying to sort through the doctrinal chaos of denominational religion! Which is why Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church, and no other, "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church has remained ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding with NO denominations, for more than 2,000 years, while those who have abandoned God's Church have fragmented into thousands of conflicting manmade denominations who can't agree with one another on a single doctrinal belief, in just a few hundred years. Go to your closest Catholic Church, experience the fullness of Christian truth, and you will never look back.

The edit function isn't letting me delete the post.

My question was going to be: why are you so angry at God?

You've wanted "help" for 14 years. Help with what? Something specific? Something health related or money related or personal relationship related?
What is it that God has denied you that you wanted, and why is it so important to you?

aspie3000 said:

I've posted on here many times regarding a variation of the same problem and I will not repeat it. The fact is right now I am in a state of confusion. I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God. I don't know if I'm saved. I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing). I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right. God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter; it says nothing about what I'm going through. Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that. God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

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Listen, I'm going to be direct. Please don't mistake bluntness for insult. But I sincerely think that what you need is a dose of reality.

What, exactly, are your personal expectations? Are you expecting God to come riding in on a cloud just for you and your doubt? What "benefit" are you expecting, exactly?

Sometimes faithfulness and obedience means being mocked, abused, beaten, and getting nailed to a piece of wood. Has it ever occurred to you how you sound, wallowing in your self-pity?

You don't know if you're saved? Why is that? Did you not take a step of faith? Did you not say a sinner's prayer, or get baptized, or do whatever it is that you have been led to believe is necessary for salvation to occur? Or do you question it because you'd like to believe you are saved, but you live the life of a heathen and fear that there will one day be a reckoning?

What is the foundation of your insecurity? Are you of the opinion that you sin every day, and can't help yourself? What is it, exactly? Where does your doubt come from? What is the source?

If you want answers, you need to be able to articulate your questions. You need to understand what it is you want to know, exactly, if you are going to find worthy answers, or have them given to you by those who may possess them.

I'd suggest that you dwell on that for a bit and get back to all of us. There is a good body of believers here. We'll have answers for you if you can give us questions worthy of an answer.

Aspie,

I am a retired Theology professor and UMC pastor. This is your first thread I've encountered and nothing would bring me greater pleasure than to see you through to a life-changing encounter with Christ. Think of yourself as a patient seeking out the right physician for your soul. It is clear from this thread, that your quest has been misguided, but I have no interest in playing make-wrong games. but to facilitate your spiritual breakthrough, I need to understand your symptoms in greater detail.

So please supply an exhaustive list of how you have tried to connect with God and how you were disappointed in the results. I especially need to understanding your toxic experiences of church and your current relationships with churches, Bible studies, prayer groups, etc. If I sense your quest is for real and you're willing to pay the necessary price, I will hang in there with you indefinitely, even giving you my private e-mail and phone number in a PM, if you request this.

Let me identify a key starting point. In life theological understanding is the booby prize, because it offers just enough spirituality to inoculate you against the rea thing--the right quality of spiritual experience. What you need is a self-authenticating encounter with the Holy Spirit that removes your dependence on so-called Bible specialists like me. Second-hand spirituality is deadly and the value of drawing inspiration from the mountain-top experiences of others is very limited. So please respond and then see whether I have anything unique and helpful for your plight.

aspie3000 said:

What is meant by truly repent? What does the truly part mean?

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To truly repent is to admit that you've sinned (as we all do) ask God to forgive you for those sins and to then walk in obedience; not reverting back to those sins. You may still stumble along the way but you will notice progress when you don't stumble as often and you no longer practice the sins you once did. Eventually, by God's grace you will be walking in the light. Notice what 1 John 1:7 states about those believers who walk in the light:
7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."
The condition or caveat associated with this verse is walking in the light. If you walk in the light as evidenced by a lifestyle of obedience (not perfection) to the shepherd, then when you do occasionally sin, Jesus' blood is efficacious when you repent. Conversely, those who choose to walk in darkness do not have the assurance of Jesus' cleaning blood; they do not even have fellowship with God (v.6).
Having said this, there may be some strongholds in your life that need healing and forgiveness which you should perhaps explore further which hinder you from walking in the light

aspie3000 said:

Why in the name of God do you not think that this is the absolute first thing I tried? When I pray I get nothing, when I read his word it doesn't say anything useful, and fellowship with other believers? I get nothing out of that.

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God will act and respond in His time. You lack faith that His answer to your prayers will come. He may be showing you this. You sound short-fused not only with others in your frustrations, but perhaps even with God? Keep reading His Word even if you feel as though it doesn't speak to you and pray that it will. Have faith that it eventually will. Christianity is founded on God and faith. Faith is a gift from God...giving up is actually an act of faithlessness.

Isaiah 55:6-7:
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Jeremiah 29:12-14:
Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,” declares the Lord...

(God's great and precious promises to you. Take heart!)

Knowing if you are saved...
Well the bible tells us that we will know if we are saved

[1Jo 5:13-15] 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

Are you praying according to the Will of God? Or are your prayers out of selfish ambitions?

You said, "it says nothing about what I'm going through."
The scriptures tell us that there is nothing new under the sun, God has seen it all. Whatever you are going through right now is no surprise to God, he has seen it all and can help you to see by reading his word, that is how he speaks to us.

[Ecc 1:9] 9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun..

What denomination is the right one?

Its important that we don't focus on what denomination has Proclaimed what. What matters is if its consistent with the word of God. One denomination does not have authority over another. The only way to Salvation is through our Lord Jesus Christ. In fact Paul said that there was to be no divisions among the Church..

[1Co 1:10 ESV] 10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Salvation is only in Christ!
[Jhn 14:6 ESV] 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[Act 4:12 ESV] 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

[Rom 10:9 ESV] 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


I understand that you're going through a difficult time right now, but it is only a season, not forever. God is still in control and always will be. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. In this world we will have troubles, and the Lord knows whats best for us, and when to answer us. He is leading you to the answer, even though you may not know it yet. Lean not on your own understand, but in all your ways acknowledge him.

[Jhn 16:33 ESV] 33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

[Phl 4:11-13 ESV] 11 Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

[Pro 3:5-7 ESV] 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. 7 Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

aspie3000 said:

I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God.

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The one source you should be listening to is the Bible. If you want to return to fellowship with God, then do what it says:

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Romans 12:1
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Philippians 3:13-14
13 ...forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

aspie3000 said:

I don't know if I'm saved.

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The simplest, best way to be confident in your salvation is to obey the First and Great Commandment:

Matthew 22:36-38
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.

When you love God this way, you will never doubt that you are one of His.

aspie3000 said:

I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing).

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See above.

What are you expecting to happen when you confess and repent of your sin? This isn't all there is to fellowship with God.

aspie3000 said:

I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right.

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Stuff Calvinism - and any other soteriological perspective. You do yourself not a bit of good getting mired in this area. Leave soteriology alone for now and focus on your relationship with God through Christ.

aspie3000 said:

God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter

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I realize this is how you feel, but what you've written here isn't the slightest bit true. The Bible is God's "voice." In every one of its pages He is speaking - if you care to listen.

aspie3000 said:

Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that.

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He has spoken to you. In the Bible. Read it. Heed it. Live it.

aspie3000 said:

God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

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God has not left you; but you, I think, have left Him. Though He may feel distant, He is still as close as thought to you; there is nowhere you can be that He is not.

God spells out very clearly in His word how to walk in intimate fellowship with Him. Have you spent the time and effort to find out what His word says concerning this matter? Have you acted in accord with God's principles and commands? If not, you have no grounds for complaint. If you won't do as He says, you can't complain that His methods don't work.

aspie3000 said:

I've posted on here many times regarding a variation of the same problem and I will not repeat it. The fact is right now I am in a state of confusion. I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God. I don't know if I'm saved. I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing). I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right. God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter; it says nothing about what I'm going through. Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that. God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

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Maybe you should not concern yourself with the Theology and just pray for God to come into your heart. “Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened for you. Because everyone who keeps asking will receive, and the person who keeps searching will find, and the person who keeps knocking will have the door opened.” Blessings

ToBeLoved said:

I would actually like a clarification on what “hearing from God l” actually means to them.

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You do not know how to hear from God?

ToBeLoved said:

The first thing I would examine in the Bible is whether salvation can even be lost.

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So much of scripture is ignored today:

Hebrew 6: 4-8

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned."

2Timothy2:15 said:

You do not know how to hear from God?

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I said I would like to know what it means to them.

Not understanding how you got your question from that.

Someone suggested you listen to christian singers but they are too 'pop' music ,while the most beautiful spirtiually pure sounds come from plain chant in monasteries and some churches .I saw a
service in France 2 weeks ago which had a jazz band .I turned it off as it is vulgar and strident and not Holy at all. Not the kind of pure holy music of heaven to be and in RC and EO churches .

Again I prefer more bible studies than they give ,but one cannot compare the popular evangelical sing along with the devotion and holiness of RCC. plain chant and E..O singing in their own voices .
One is adoring a Holy and Wondrous God and the other is pop music .
This music is fine to sing by ourselves like" Amazing Grace " ,OH Holy Night etc .
The author of A.G. was an atheist who as captain of a slave ship which was foundering, prayed to the Lord , that if he was saved he would devote his life to others ,and to his God .
What a lovely hymn of praise came of this 'saving'. !!!!

I often listen to the Jordan Peterson youtube series on the Bible, and what I appreciate most is his frank honesty. He is obviously a smart guy, but he admits frankly when he comes across big points in the Bible that he was clueless as to what they could possibly mean.
A little bit of honesty from us, trained to be skeptics in the same secular world that he comes from, would have us admitting too that it is very difficult for us to know exactly what it means that God came to Abraham and gave him directions so often.
What does that mean? At the time the text was written it must have been obvious, because it was like no further explanation was needed.. It doesn't seem to be primarily a social interaction between two bodies, because there are other encounters where this happened in the form of angels, who apparently were embodied enough that Sodomites wanted to have anal sex with them. What does it mean to hear the voice of God, or frankly to encounter Satan tempting you in a desert, like Jesus had been at the beginning of his ministry?
Is the voice of God like the voices that schizophrenics hear, for example? Well, for schizophrenics maybe it is, but to follow the discoveries of Elijah, the still, small voice of God is not likely so thunderous as all that.
Jordan Peterson is above all a scientist, and from empirical science he cannot but conclude that mystical experience with the divine is a real, discernable experience, with real and lasting effects on humans. Through psychedelic experiences, through electrical manipulations of brain activity, through severe physical deprivation, through ecstatic dance, through meditation, divine encounters are real, and not just a matter of faith.
Unlike Sigmund Freud who dismissed all religious experience as superstitious nonsense and a retreat to the irrational and childish wish fulfillment, Car Jung saw the religious experience of men as their highest calling. Meaning and purpose and fulfillment came through listening to the voices within that are not directly our own voices. That we have a will and an ability to direct and control the voices within is self-apparent. It manifests itself every time that we try to find the right words to write in a post. However, it is also apparent that there is a constant stream of psychic activity that goes on in us, unwilled by us, and often beyond our awareness, in the back of our mind so to speak, only to remerge into our awareness during sleep as dreams, or even during wakefulness as day dreams, and imaginative play too.
I think that for most of us, that is where the voice of God is to be found, not in voices speaking to us from the TV or deep space that need to be guarded against by tin hats, not in the thunder and the storm, not in the Magic Mushroom or mould on the loaf of rye, but in the constant flow of psychic energy that is always there within, always bubbling forth, always drawing our awareness away from that grueling math problem or difficult toil toward things that are of more compelling interest to something deeper within us than in that aspect of our self that we more directly identify with as the "I".

That is not faith so far; that is science. The faith comes in the willed choice to accept that the Bible and Christianity contain the tools of discernment that allow us to discern the voice of God from the temptations of the devil, which are both very much alive and available in our own lives, if only we would take the time to listen to them with awareness and take them seriously, rather than dismissing them as just more banal superstitious junk and infantile wish fulfillments.
Faith to me does not entail the ability to believing in the unbelievable and suspending disbelief to accept the fantastic without evidence. It does not just mean seeing through a glass darkly, although accepting that what is unknown in our lives is vast and treacherous certainly faith certainly does mean accepting the reality of what we do not know too as relevant. We cannot transcend our life of pain and grief without first believing in the possibility of things that lie beyond us.
Faith to me entails doing the work of actively living the life of Christ, as laid out in the Bible and/or the Church.
Mushrooms and LSD as tickets to heaven are fun rides to heaven for sure.
(Or hell, on the downtake ).
Nobody said that riding the cross to heaven was going to be much fun. It's not, for the most part.

It seems like the OP has discovered the alternative of faithlessness is not much fun either.

aspie3000 said:

I've posted on here many times regarding a variation of the same problem and I will not repeat it. The fact is right now I am in a state of confusion. I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God. I don't know if I'm saved. I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing). I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right. God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter; it says nothing about what I'm going through. Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that. God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

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God seems so far away..unreachable..no answers. Jesus in body was 2000 years ago. Holy Spirit..like God.. seems unreachable. Church is such a stewing pot of different thoughts and beliefs that nothing feels like God can be present.
I understand the confusion.
I am wondering what you expect to find in your search..meaning of life? If it all is real? Where was the beginning..when will it end? What does the Bible mean? In order to start, we need to get a question of what is confusing you and then we can build on that

aspie3000 said:

I've posted on here many times regarding a variation of the same problem and I will not repeat it. The fact is right now I am in a state of confusion. I've been separated from God for 14, soon to be about 15 years. I have sought to return and have heard mixed messages from sources claiming to be from God. I don't know if I'm saved. I don't know what to do to restore my relationship with God whether to repent manually or have faith (I tried both and both do nothing). I don't know what Christianity is anymore whether the Calvinists are right about salvation, or the baptists, or what other pointless denomination has it right. God is silent and the Bible is useless on the matter; it says nothing about what I'm going through. Of course this could all be solved if God were to just talk to me and tell me what to do and believe but he appears not to want to do that. God has left me here in my own confusion, bitterness, and filth and does nothing for my benefit either way.

Click to expand...

fat wee robin said:

Someone suggested you listen to christian singers but they are too 'pop' music ,while the most beautiful spirtiually pure sounds come from plain chant in monasteries and some churches .I saw a
service in France 2 weeks ago which had a jazz band .I turned it off as it is vulgar and strident and not Holy at all. Not the kind of pure holy music of heaven to be and in RC and EO churches .

Again I prefer more bible studies than they give ,but one cannot compare the popular evangelical sing along with the devotion and holiness of RCC. plain chant and E..O singing in their own voices .
One is adoring a Holy and Wondrous God and the other is pop music .
This music is fine to sing by ourselves like" Amazing Grace " ,OH Holy Night etc .
The author of A.G. was an atheist who as captain of a slave ship which was foundering, prayed to the Lord , that if he was saved he would devote his life to others ,and to his God .
What a lovely hymn of praise came of this 'saving'. !!!!

Click to expand...

It really should be about the words and what a song is saying. I may prefer a certain type of music, we all have our preferences.

I am more into the words and worship personally.

My suggestion...a sabatical
If you cant get a week..just a weekend away. Turn ofc the TV..no phone..in a wilderness setting if possible..a beach..isolated in a hotel room.
Find a subject in the Bible that interests you and write on the subject as if you were going to give a sermon.
It can be about spiritual gifts..forgiveness..Satan..downfall of modern church..meaning of worship..listening to God..spend some quality time on this and then continue at your own pace..no distractions. It gets easier and more fulfilling as yoj progress.