SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

I asked this:
"Really? Explain your erroneous claim."

BNR32FAN said:

Been there done that several times.

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This is a cop-out. This hasn't been done. I'm always happy to repeat myself if someone asks a question that I've already answered.

Why is it so difficult to defend your claims?

i challenged your claim and you folded.

I said this:
"Seems you're having great difficulty following this discussion. I never said anyone is saved by righteous living.

In fact, Jesus said only One is good, and that sure ain't man. Only God is good.

This was Jesus' answer in Mark 10:18 - “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

And Jesus told the man how to be PERFECT in the context of keeping the commandments and receiving eternal life:
Matt 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So the context for the man's question and Jesus' response was about how to be perfect.

Do you claim to be perfect? If you do, then you are in direct opposition to Jesus' statement to the rich man."

justbyfaith said:

Barnabas was a good man...Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24. The fruit of the Spirit is among other things goodness. Galatians 5:22-23. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Hebrews 10:14.

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So then, I guess you think Jesus wasn't telling the truth when He told the rich man that no one is good except God.

I said this:
"If "righteous living" is part of how to be saved, then salvation is by faith plus works. Which Eph 2:8,9 directly REFUTES."

justbyfaith said:

See Mark 2:1-5.

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Now, please provide some explanation or guidance as to why Mark 2:1-5 relates to my point.

I asked this:
"Really? Explain your erroneous claim."

justbyfaith said:

It seems like its useless talking to you until the Lord takes the blinders off. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

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Once again, I challenged, and you folded.

Those who can't defend their claims with evidence always have a hard time on these forums.

FreeGrace2 said:

I said this:
"Seems you're having great difficulty following this discussion. I never said anyone is saved by righteous living.

In fact, Jesus said only One is good, and that sure ain't man. Only God is good.

This was Jesus' answer in Mark 10:18 - “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

And Jesus told the man how to be PERFECT in the context of keeping the commandments and receiving eternal life:
Matt 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So the context for the man's question and Jesus' response was about how to be perfect.

Do you claim to be perfect? If you do, then you are in direct opposition to Jesus' statement to the rich man."

So then, I guess you think Jesus wasn't telling the truth when He told the rich man that no one is good except God.

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The Holy Spirit was not yet given when Jesus said that.

justbyfaith said:

If you say you're a believer and don't keep the commandments, you're a liar and the truth isn't in you.

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Here's the fact sir. No person EVER kept the commandments perfectly. Some of them all the time, others most of the time, but NONE ALL of the time.

So, those who claim they keep ALL the commandments ALL of the time ARE liars and the truth isn't in them.

Here's what James said about keeping the commandments:
2:10 - For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Do you agree with James, or have a different opinion?

FreeGrace2 said:

I said this:
"If "righteous living" is part of how to be saved, then salvation is by faith plus works. Which Eph 2:8,9 directly REFUTES."

Now, please provide some explanation or guidance as to why Mark 2:1-5 relates to my point.

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No, I was referring to your statement that faith can't be seen in referencing Mark 2:1-5. Please stop misconstruing what I am responding to when I post.

justbyfaith said:

You have done such a thing. You have argued that because THERE ARE COMMANDMENTS, that the one who is born of God isn't motivated by the Holy Spirit to keep them

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I am getting quite tired of these fallacious claims.

Please show me the post (or give the post #) where I argued that born again people aren't motivated by the Holy Spirit.

This is a challenge. Are you going to fold once again?

in direct contradiction to Ezekiel 36:27 and the proper interpretation of Romans 10:10. Also, if you look at the following scriptures together, your opinion is refuted: Romans 5:5, 1 John 3:18, Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4.

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This is just another claim. Without any explanation of how your cited verses refute specifically my opinion, as you call it, you have no point or case.

Or, will this just be another fold on your part?

FreeGrace2 said:

I asked this:
"Really? Explain your erroneous claim."

Once again, I challenged, and you folded.

Those who can't defend their claims with evidence always have a hard time on these forums.

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I've already given scriptural evidence for what you say is an erroneous claim, and you refuse to accept the testimony of scripture. Why should I keep trying? I haven't folded; but I've almost given up.

I asked this:
"Where does the Bible speak of a "tenacious enough" faith that saves? That a "not tenacious enough" faith won't save?"

justbyfaith said:

You need to understand what the scripture is teaching in Ephesians 1:13-14 by comparing to Colossians 1:21-23, Hebrews 3:6, and Hebrews 3:14.

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Here is another example of making claims without any clarity or explanation. I ignore these kinds of posts, as they are not helpful for advancing the discussion.

If you want to make a point, then you need to show HOW and WHY certain verses, compared to any verse I provide, show an error on my part.

Full of claims, very short on evidence.

justbyfaith said:

I THINK THIS ONE MAY HAVE STOPPED YOU IN YOUR TRACKS.

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Ah. Another claim made. No evidence to back it up.

justbyfaith said:

No, I was referring to your statement that faith can't be seen in referencing Mark 2:1-5. Please stop misconstruing what I am responding to when I post.

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I've hardly "misconstrued" anything. I have challenged all the posts that fail to provide explanation or evidence to support claims made.

When explanations are not provided, it's IMPOSSIBLE to "misconstrue" anything. Duh.

I asked this:
"Really? Explain your erroneous claim."

Once again, I challenged, and you folded.

Those who can't defend their claims with evidence always have a hard time on these forums.

justbyfaith said:

I've already given scriptural evidence for what you say is an erroneous claim, and you refuse to accept the testimony of scripture. Why should I keep trying? I haven't folded; but I've almost given up.

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Merely citing a verse or passage is hardly giving "evidence". When I make a claim, I either cite a verse or quote it, to show WHY I make the claim.

So, if I'm misunderstanding the verse, anyone is free to address my claim, and from the verse I have cited/quoted, EXPLAIN how and why I'm in error.

btw, to give up is to fold. But one thing is clear. You've failed to provide any evidence/explanation for your own claims, or as refutation of any of my points.

Maybe it is time to fold. I mean, give up.

FreeGrace2 said:

I am getting quite tired of these fallacious claims.

Please show me the post (or give the post #) where I argued that born again people aren't motivated by the Holy Spirit.

This is a challenge. Are you going to fold once again?


This is just another claim. Without any explanation of how your cited verses refute specifically my opinion, as you call it, you have no point or case.

Or, will this just be another fold on your part?

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You have claimed that obedience does not result from a living and saving faith, have you not? You have disagreed with my statement that God CAUSES us to walk in His statutes and judgments as the result of being born again. And your argument is that there are commandments in the Bible and therefore God couldn't possibly cause us to keep them. Read the book of Job. Elihu quotes Job as saying something he never said in a singular sentence; nevertheless it was the "gist" of what Job had said. Because I put your words in a form that condemns your point of view, you deny you even said them. Shame on you!

FreeGrace2 said:

I asked this:
"Where does the Bible speak of a "tenacious enough" faith that saves? That a "not tenacious enough" faith won't save?"

Here is another example of making claims without any clarity or explanation. I ignore these kinds of posts, as they are not helpful for advancing the discussion.

If you want to make a point, then you need to show HOW and WHY certain verses, compared to any verse I provide, show an error on my part.

Full of claims, very short on evidence.

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I'm not here in debate mode, I believe that is sinful, Romans 1:29, 2 Corinthians 12:20. I'm here to teach those who are teachable.

FreeGrace2 said:

Ah. Another claim made. No evidence to back it up.

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Answer the post then.

FreeGrace2 said:

I asked this:
"Really? Explain your erroneous claim."

Once again, I challenged, and you folded.

Those who can't defend their claims with evidence always have a hard time on these forums.

Merely citing a verse or passage is hardly giving "evidence". When I make a claim, I either cite a verse or quote it, to show WHY I make the claim.

So, if I'm misunderstanding the verse, anyone is free to address my claim, and from the verse I have cited/quoted, EXPLAIN how and why I'm in error.

btw, to give up is to fold. But one thing is clear. You've failed to provide any evidence/explanation for your own claims, or as refutation of any of my points.

Maybe it is time to fold. I mean, give up.

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So the Holy Spirit folded, I mean, gave up on man in Genesis 6:3. But certainly not because He was wrong! Because man was too hard-hearted and stubborn to hear Him with an open heart and mind.

FreeGrace2 said:

I've hardly "misconstrued" anything. I have challenged all the posts that fail to provide explanation or evidence to support claims made.

When explanations are not provided, it's IMPOSSIBLE to "misconstrue" anything. Duh.

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justbyfaith said:

You have claimed that obedience does not result from a living and saving faith, have you not?

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I have NOT. I asked for a post #, and it seems you're only goin' on your memory. You need to do better than that.

I said obedience isn't automatic or guaranteed on the basis of being born again. And I proved it by quoting 2 commands from Paul to believers:
1. STOP grieving the Holy Spirit - Eph 5:18
2. STOP quenching the Holy Spirit - 1 Thess 5:19

Hasn't it occurred to you WHY Paul gave these 2 commands? Because believers DO this. As shown by the imperative mood command which means to STOP.

Add to these commands all the other commands for holy living, etc, and we have proof that righteous living is neither automatic nor guaranteed.

You have disagreed with my statement that God CAUSES us to walk in His statutes and judgments as the result of being born again.

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You bet I do. There is NO evidence in the Bible for this idea.

Instead, we have commands for obedience. Why don't you see the difference?

And your argument is that there are commandments in the Bible and therefore God couldn't possibly cause us to keep them.

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What you have failed to understand is that God gave believers His Holy Spirit as the Power Source for holy living. But we MUST appropriate His power by being filled with the Holy Spirit and walk by His means. Neither of which are automatic or guaranteed.

Read the book of Job. Elihu quotes Job as saying something he never said in a singular sentence; nevertheless it was the "gist" of what Job had said. Because I put your words in a form that condemns your point of view, you deny you even said them. Shame on you!

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I JUST NOW corrected your false claim. Are you not following this discussion? Seems you're not tracking very well.

btw, when you "put my words in a form that condemns" my "point of view", all you've done is MISCONSTRUE or MISREPRESENT my words and point of view.

It's simply NOT possible for one's own words to condemn their own point of view.

I'm surprise that you don't get this.

justbyfaith said:

I'm not here in debate mode, I believe that is sinful, Romans 1:29, 2 Corinthians 12:20. I'm here to teach those who are teachable.

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If teaching is your goal, then why in the world have you left "explanation" out of so many of your posts?

Aren't you aware that teaching involves lots of explanation? Just citing verses without any explanation cannot be called teaching.