One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

RESPONSE: " Jesus didn’t use his Divine Attributes "

A: He used some. He veiled most.

Jesus the Christ, The Divine Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man, True God-Man CHANGED the world because of HIS "works" / words / missions:
1. Message...spiritually true WORDS
2. Miracles...spiritual and super-natural ACTS to AUTHENTICATE His message AND:
3. Prophesies...spiritual fore-sight
4. Teaching...of spiritual principles, sometimes in parables
5. Preaching...the Law and interpreting it, adding precepts, warning unbelievers
6. Ministry...a perfect example to follow...sin free

MISSION: Diety come down from heaven into perfect flesh to save Man and reconcile Man to God.

John 4:48
So Jesus said to him,
“Unless you people (Jewish leaders) see signs and wonders, you simply will not BELIEVE.”

He was Divine / Deity FROM conception until ascension.
He was 100% in the Will of God the Father....sinless.
The Father outranked Him in the TRI-UNE Godhead.
He was assisted in His Ministry by the Power of God the Holy Spirit and angels.

He had a DUAL NATURE: True MAN...True DEITY.

Jesus of Nazareth, (Nazarene)
the DIVINE Messiah,
the Christ,
Son of God,
Son of Man,
the "Word" (logos) made flesh...DEITY!
LORD, Master, Savior, Immanuel
KING of Kings, LORD of Lords
Lamb of God
ONLY Begotten (not made,unique) Son of God
The Good Sheherd
The Bread of Life
The Light of the World
The Narrow Gate
The Resurrection and the Life
The Way + TRUTH + Life
Alpha and Omega
The Bright Morning Star
etc...and other "I am's"

Colossians 2 ....
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (TRUE GOD) dwells in bodily form, (TRUE MAN)
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 1 ....
18b...For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of Deity) to dwell in Him,

Colossians 1 ....
16 For by Him all things were created,
both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities
—all things have been created THROUGH Him and FOR Him.
17 He is BEFORE all things, and
in Him all things "hold together".
18 He is also head of the body, the church;
and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness (of Deity) to dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross;

WilliamBo said:

These are all verses stating that you CAN lose your salvation-

Matthew 13:20-21
Matthew 24:44-51
Matthew 18:28-35
Mark 4:16-18; Mark 11:25;
Mark 13:20-23;
Luke 8:13
Luke 12:42-46; John 6:60-71
John 12:44-48; John 15:5-6;
John 17:12; Acts 20:28-30;
Romans 6:12-13,16;
Romans 8:12-13;
Romans 11:20-22;
1 Corinthians 3:13-17
1 Corinthians 6:8-11
1 Corinthians 6:15-18
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
1 Corinthians 10:2,9
1 Corinthians 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 5: 20- 6:2
2 Corinthians 11:2
2 Corinthians 13:5
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 4:8-9
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 6: 7-9
Ephesians 5:2-6
Philippians 2: 12-16
Philippians 3:10-13
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1Timothy 5:8
1Timothy 5:14-15
1Tim. 6:9-10
1Tim. 6: 20-21
2 Tim. 2:11-12
Titus 3:8-11
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:18-4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:23-29
Hebrews 12:12-17, 25
James 1:14-16
James 2:12-13
James 4:4
James 5:8-9, 19-20
2 Peter 1:3-4
2 Peter 2:1-2, 14-15, 20-22
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 3:14-18
1 John 5:17
2 John 8:9
Revelation 2:4-5

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And every single one can be explained how it has nothing to do with insecure salvation if interpreted in context and by looking at the original language.

If anyone is interest you can do a google search on eternal security and problem passages and you will find that these verses do not prove insecure salvation.

Be Blessed

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

And every single one can be explained how it has nothing to do with insecure salvation if interpreted in context and by looking at the original language.

If anyone is interest you can do a google search on eternal security and problem passages and you will find that these verses do not prove insecure salvation.

Be Blessed

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So just for the sake or argument, if you took the mark of the beast would you still be eternally secure?

Oldmantook said:

So just for the sake or argument, if you took the mark of the beast would you still be eternally secure?

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There is nothing to indicate that those who took the mark was saved to begin with.

Jesus said that there will be those who will say to me Lord Lord did we not do great things in your name and He will say I never knew you. Then another verse where Jesus says to the believers who are accepted that they ministered to Jesus by doing good deeds but the believers say when did we ever do that to you. And the non believers, ask when was you sick or in the hospital etc.

In this situation its not the lack of works that saved or did not save. Its the fact of who had a relationship with Jesus to begin with. Further more the ones Jesus never knew, never said but we trusted in you. They boosted about works. The boosted about the works they did, miracles and casting out demons and they implied that had we known where to do more works we would have done them to get into heaven.

Even before the throne these people still did not get it. Its not about works. That is why the real believers said when did we ever do anything for you Jesus. Why, because these people never looked to works to benefit them in any way.

They did works because God worked in the such a heart which they could never have in themselves.

Be Blessed.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

There is nothing to indicate that those who took the mark was saved to begin with.

Jesus said that there will be those who will say to me Lord Lord did we not do great things in your name and He will say I never knew you. Then another verse where Jesus says to the believers who are accepted that they ministered to Jesus by doing good deeds but the believers say when did we ever do that to you. And the non believers, ask when was you sick or in the hospital etc.

In this situation its not the lack of works that saved or did not save. Its the fact of who had a relationship with Jesus to begin with. Further more the ones Jesus never knew, never said but we trusted in you. They boosted about works. The boosted about the works they did, miracles and casting out demons and they implied that had we known where to do more works we would have done them to get into heaven.

Even before the throne these people still did not get it. Its not about works. That is why the real believers said when did we ever do anything for you Jesus. Why, because these people never looked to works to benefit them in any way.

They did works because God worked in the such a heart which they could never have in themselves.

Be Blessed.

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You didn't answer my question as I asked you if YOU took the mark of the beast would you still be eternally secure. If don't mind answering that question.

Jesus specifically commanded those to depart from for the specific reason that they "practiced lawlessness" - not because they were unbelievers. Only believers can use the name of Jesus to cast out demons and perform the supernatural "in His name."

Jesus only knows those who listen and follow Him. (Jn 10:27). Believers who do not obey God do not have eternal life (Heb 5:9).

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

And every single one can be explained how it has nothing to do with insecure salvation if interpreted in context and by looking at the original language.

If anyone is interest you can do a google search on eternal security and problem passages and you will find that these verses do not prove insecure salvation.

Be Blessed

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The only thing I believe is love covers a great many sins. 1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8

Jeremiah chapter 29 verse 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.



Deuteronomy chapter 4 verse 29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Oldmantook said:

Believers who do not obey God do not have eternal life (Heb 5:9).

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way to add a bunch of your own beliefs on top of a verse. No wonder you didn’t quote the verse directly

Hebrews‬ ‭5:6-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”; who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.”
‭‭

Oldmantook said:

You didn't answer my question as I asked you if YOU took the mark of the beast would you still be eternally secure. If don't mind answering that question.

Jesus specifically commanded those to depart from for the specific reason that they "practiced lawlessness" - not because they were unbelievers. Only believers can use the name of Jesus to cast out demons and perform the supernatural "in His name."

Jesus only knows those who listen and follow Him. (Jn 10:27). Believers who do not obey God do not have eternal life (Heb 5:9).

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You are wrong about only believers can cast out demons. People who are not truely saved have cast out demons by using the name of Jesus. How does that work, by the fact that Jesus is the name above all names and due to their faith in that name.

Obedience is not living without sin, but rather faith in Jesus. What is the will of God, to believe in Jesus not to obey laws or some command not to sin. And in that verse it says eternal salvation. If you can loose it, then it was not eternal.

Again, since a believer can not loose their salvation they would never take the mark to begin with. You are trying to make an argument that is a fallacy. That is like asking if God can do anything then can He lie. If you say no, then you can say that God can't do anything.

To say can a believer take the mark, its the same false premise. A believer never would.

Be Blessed

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

There is nothing to indicate that those who took the mark was saved to begin with.

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And away we go.

Anything to indicate they weren't?

You are adding to scripture. IOW you are stating that those that take the mark were not saved to begin with,while you have no reason the believe that...none whatsoever.

That not only happens here but it's a catch all answer that tries to change scripture each time it's uttered, just like here. Changing scripture is the only way one can make OSAS work, and we all know where that gets us, Out of the OSAS/frying pan and into the fire.

ToBeLoved said:

way to add a bunch of your own beliefs on top of a verse. No wonder you didn’t quote the verse directly

Hebrews‬ ‭5:6-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”; who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.”
‭‭

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It plainly states he is the author of eternal life to all "who obey Him. " It's pretty clear isn't? Apparently not for you.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

You are wrong about only believers can cast out demons. People who are not truely saved have cast out demons by using the name of Jesus. How does that work, by the fact that Jesus is the name above all names and due to their faith in that name.

Obedience is not living without sin, but rather faith in Jesus. What is the will of God, to believe in Jesus not to obey laws or some command not to sin. And in that verse it says eternal salvation. If you can loose it, then it was not eternal.

Again, since a believer can not loose their salvation they would never take the mark to begin with. You are trying to make an argument that is a fallacy. That is like asking if God can do anything then can He lie. If you say no, then you can say that God can't do anything.

To say can a believer take the mark, its the same false premise. A believer never would.

Be Blessed

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Give me just one example in Scripture where the unsaved use the name of Jesus to cast out demons. I guarantee that you will not find it. The only reference even remotely to such an example is the sons of Sceva and I guess you know what happened to them?

Where did I write that obedience is living without sin. That is your definition - not mine.

You keep avoiding my question. I asked YOU if YOU took the mark of the beast, would you lose your salvation? Simple question - simple answer. Yes or No? If you don't want to answer what would happen to you, then just say so.

Oldmantook said:

It plainly states he is the author of eternal life to all "who obey Him. " It's pretty clear isn't? Apparently not for you.

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And God said the obedience we are to do is believe not do works.


Be blessed.

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

And God said the obedience we are to do is believe not do works.


Be blessed.

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Since you have repeatedly refused to answer my simple question about if YOU were to take the mark of the beast, would you still be saved, it's obvious to me that you are not only evading the issue but have your own agenda. Therefore I will take my question and post it to your new thread. You can answer it there if you would be so bold.

Oldmantook said:

Give me just one example in Scripture where the unsaved use the name of Jesus to cast out demons. I guarantee that you will not find it. The only reference even remotely to such an example is the sons of Sceva and I guess you know what happened to them?

Where did I write that obedience is living without sin. That is your definition - not mine.

You keep avoiding my question. I asked YOU if YOU took the mark of the beast, would you lose your salvation? Simple question - simple answer. Yes or No? If you don't want to answer what would happen to you, then just say so.

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Where does the Bible show that unbelievers cast out devils, where the ones said we cast out devils in your name. When you know the truth of secure salavtion then you will know what that verse is saying. You can't prove insecure salvation without throwing out the true Gospel.

I have responded, but for some reason you are not listening. I will not respond any more.

Be Blessed

EternallyKeptByJesus said:

People who are not truely saved have cast out demons by

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How can you know if they aren't saved I mean since you can only know if they are if they don't commit an unforgivable sin.

Whereas I "get" wondering about Salvation and I know we are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling but I can not help but wonder if it is a misguided approach . Paul said he does not count himself to have obtained but presses onward for the high mark. God knows whether I am saved ..have been saved and am being saved ..He knows if I have received the "down payment" or the earnest ..It is His business and I trust Him with my salvation . I believe that I have received Him though I am perplexed why He would have had mercy on someone like me other than His goodness ...but I do not take it for granted ..can I lose it ? Can I lose Him ? I do not know nor do I wish to debate ..there is too much work to do . If we walk in the light as He is in the light , then we have fellowship one with another And the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin . In revelation , Jesus does tell the church to repent ...the "saved" if one wants to use a baptist terminology or understanding .

Oldmantook said:

If YOU were to take the mark of the beast, would you still be saved?

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So, if YOU were to decide to sprout a new arm would that cause you to lose your security as a human?

Oldmantook said:

You didn't answer my question as I asked you if YOU took the mark of the beast would you still be eternally secure. If don't mind answering that question.

Jesus specifically commanded those to depart from for the specific reason that they "practiced lawlessness" - not because they were unbelievers. Only believers can use the name of Jesus to cast out demons and perform the supernatural "in His name."

Jesus only knows those who listen and follow Him. (Jn 10:27). Believers who do not obey God do not have eternal life (Heb 5:9).

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Why are you giving him a hypothetical question at this point?

Let

Oldmantook said:

It plainly states he is the author of eternal life to all "who obey Him. " It's pretty clear isn't? Apparently not for you.

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Let me speak slowly.

It is a verse about who Christ is and what He does.

You pulled that out to be about OUR salvation. So the context in your verse is wrong. All of us who are saved obey him. So that has nothing to do with your point.

Coming to Christ for salvation is obeying Him.

NeedyFollower said:

Whereas I "get" wondering about Salvation and I know we are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling but I can not help but wonder if it is a misguided approach . Paul said he does not count himself to have obtained but presses onward for the high mark. God knows whether I am saved ..have been saved and am being saved ..He knows if I have received the "down payment" or the earnest ..It is His business and I trust Him with my salvation . I believe that I have received Him though I am perplexed why He would have had mercy on someone like me other than His goodness ...but I do not take it for granted ..can I lose it ? Can I lose Him ? I do not know nor do I wish to debate ..there is too much work to do . If we walk in the light as He is in the light , then we have fellowship one with another And the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin . In revelation , Jesus does tell the church to repent ...the "saved" if one wants to use a baptist terminology or understanding .

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If you look at that verse closer about working out our salvation with fear and trembling, you will see the Greek word translated into fear is also meant as reverence.