COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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The7thColporteur

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I made a point to you previously and I am backing it by by Scripture, I believe.
And I asked you specifically in regards Hebrews 7:11:

"What "law" is that referring to? Can you show me a single Levitical priest in Exodus 19-20?"
 
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faroukfarouk

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And I asked you specifically in regards Hebrews 7:11:

"What "law" is that referring to? Can you show me a single Levitical priest in Exodus 19-20?"
Hebrews 7.11: "under it hath the people received the law".
 
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The7thColporteur

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Hebrews 7.11: "under it hath the people received the law".
Again, in Exodus 19-20 where is the Levitical priest that "the law" was given under? From what I read the Ten Commandments were spoken directly by God from heaven to all the people. There was no Levitical priesthood yet.

The Levitical priesthood deals with the laws of sacrifice.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Again, in Exodus 19-20 where is the Levitical priest that "the law" was given under? From what I read the Ten Commandments were spoken directly by God from heaven to all the people. There was no Levitical priesthood yet.

The Levitical priesthood deals with the laws of sacrifice.
Hebrews 7.11 does say that under the Levitical priesthood the people received the law.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Hebrews 7.11 does say that under the Levitical priesthood the people received the law.
Indeed, what "law"? Read the context. Sacrificial law.

Example:

Hebrews 7:13 KJB - For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.​
 
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The7thColporteur

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The law was changed; clearly stated in the next verse, v. 12.
Sure was, from sacrifice of type, to sacrifice of the real. From Levitical priest to Jesus Priest.

The Ten Commandment Law didn't change, otherwise why would you need a Jesus priest?

Read Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:12,19; Hebrews 8:5, 9:24; Revelation 11:19, 15:5. What is in the True Ark in the True Most Holy Place in the True Temple in Heaven that God gave as a pattern to Moses, David/Solomon?

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Where was the Law of God in the Temple? In the Ark. Therefore, re-read Psalms 40:8 again, in the context of Jesus Christ, Psalms 40:7,9 KJB, etc. The Ark is representational of the Heart of God, in which is His unchanging character.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Sure was, from sacrifice of type, to sacrifice of the real. From Levitical priest to Jesus Priest.

The Ten Commandment Law didn't change, otherwise why would you need a Jesus priest?

Read Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chroniceles 28:12,19; Hebrews 8:5; Revelation 11:19, 15:5. What is in the True Ark in the True Most Holy Place in the True Temple in Heaven that God gave as a pattern to Moses, David/Solomon?

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Where was the Law of God in the Temple? In the Ark. Therefore, re-read Psalms 40:8 again, in the context of Jesus Christ, Psalms 40:7,9 KJB, etc. The Ark is representational of the Heart of God, in which is His unchanging character.
Where is the repetition of all the 10 commandments in the New Testament including the sabbath? We are now in the scheme of things where Christ has become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1 Corinthians 15.20). The law was clearly changed.

In respect of the priesthood also it was changed, Hebrews 7.12.
 
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The7thColporteur

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faroukfarouk

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What pharisaical rule is that to demand God repeat what He already said?

However, I already demonstrated it, just in Paul's use - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word
I am actually interested in the relationship between the OT and the NT, and how OT precepts are developed and modified in the NT for a heavenly people under grace with the fulness of revelation in Christ, from an earthly people under the law in the OT. I don't see where the OT sabbath fits into the NT scheme of things.

It's not unreasonable to refer to the fact that the law was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we have now is better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).
 
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Bob S

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Yes, dear, that is what I got from your testimony. Just wanted to be sure. So even though Christ took away your sin, and the Holy Spirit kills the desire to sin, you still feel like a sinner? That's your testimony of receiving the Holy Spirit??? :(

Do you honestly desire to sin? Think about it. If you do, that is the flesh.

Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."

1 John 3:5 "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

3:9 in context "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

His seed is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Just trying to keep the 10C without your flesh being dead will get you self-esteem, but won't do anything about SIN. I'm hoping that you ARE dead to the desire to sin, just haven't understood the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection in your own life. To keep telling yourself you are still a sinner if you aren't, and I hope you aren't, is not recognizing the power of the cross and His blood, and is a slap in Christ's face.

Believe me, when you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, you will KNOW it. It is not just something you believe because the Word says you will be. It is an actual experience! If you care to read further, here is my own testimony of the night I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


TESTIMONY

I received God's grace at the weakest point in my life, when sin was so enticing it had a stranglehold on me. I would like to share with you my own testimony of the night I was saved, and my experience of receiving the "power" of grace.

Actually, I can relate to Saul's experience of being brought to Christ through seeing a manifestation of Jesus, because moments before I actually repented and experienced the saving power of God, He sovereignly let me see a vision. It was of my sin.

Here I was 29 years old, had gone to church all my life, though I wasn't presently, and I was having an affair with a married man! He was a rather powerful Jewish entertainment business man in Beverly Hills, and I became totally obsessed with him, as well as dependent upon him. He became my love, and my security. In fact, he was the love of my life. No one had done as much for me as he had.

After many months, I finally realized this affair was ruining my hope of a future, of a home and family. He wasn't going to leave his wife, nor did I want him to. But knowing all this didn't give me the strength to break off the affair. So, I did what you do in Beverly Hills, I went to a therapist.

After telling the therapist all about my relationship with my lover, he said these words, "Well, if it feels good, do it." I immediately felt a chill. It was like encountering Satan himself. I couldn't wait to leave, and I never went back. But the thought of Satan made me realize my only hope for finding strength was in God. So I went searching for a church.

I did quite a bit of church hopping, then I remembered years ago before moving to California from Tennessee, Pat Boone's mom and dad suggested I visit Pastor Jack Hayford's church, The Church On The Way, a Foursquare church in the San Fernando Valley outside Los Angeles. I made up my mind that instead of hopping to the next church on my list, I would attend every service this church held for two months to give it a chance before deciding if I needed to search elsewhere. But, from the first sermon I knew I would stay. Through the Holy Spirit, Jack seemed to be preaching just to me. That didn’t just happen on that first visit, but every service thereafter. I was home.

After a month of attending every service, I decided I was strong enough to break off the affair. So I did, but became so devastated, after three days I begged him to come back. Of course, he did. He loved me too.

After another month, I tried again. But within three days we were back together again.

Month after month I tried. But we always went back together within a couple days.

Then one Sunday, Pastor Jack gave a sermon on "integrity of heart." That was the turning point - humility. I learned to be very truthful with God. So I prayed, "Lord, I have tried to break off this affair, but I am weak (having done so in only my own strength). You are strong, so You do it. Make him break it off with me, and then give him the strength to stay away from me when I try to get him back - because You know I will." From that point on I just relaxed and didn’t ‘try’ to be good any longer. I recognized myself for what I was – a sinner who could do nothing in my own strength, especially when I was crazy in love and my flesh wanted what it wanted. But, the honest prayer was enough to make God start working.

One week later my lover came over and told me he finally realized that he couldn't be there when I needed him; that he needed to get out of my life. He broke up with me. I was overwhelmed with sorrow, but at the same time, in awe that possibly there really was a God. You see, it was the first prayer in my entire life that really seemed to have been answered!

After two weeks, I thought I better see if I could find another man to fill the tremendous void in my broken heart, but this time a Christian man. I knew a couple at church who were elders and asked them if they were friends with any single men they could set me up with.

They said, "Yes, we are good friends with Bill B., a movie producer, single and about 36. They knew I was already in the entertainment industry and thought this might be a good match. He comes here every Wednesday night, and we always go out for coffee later. Why don't you come with us after church this Wednesday night?”

I couldn't wait for Wednesday night service. In fact, I was 45 minutes early. Finally, church began, and as was our custom at the beginning of the service, we turned to greet those around us. Someone tapped me on the shoulder from behind, and I turned to see a girl I had met at a girlfriend's house about six months before. She had come over from across the room to greet me. That in itself was extraordinary, as Jack Hayford wanted us to remain by our seats with no roaming around. “Everything must be done decently and in order.”

"Hi," I said, "what brings you here tonight"?

"Well, I haven't had a date in a year, and this guy came into my office today, we found out we were both Christians and he brought me to his church tonight."

"Oh, really? Who did you come with"? I asked.

"Bill B."

I was bewildered. I had really thought this was the answer to my intense pain. Was God behind the scenes orchestrating everything around me? Then what in the world did He think He was doing!

Wednesday evening service was our time to pray for the nation. Around 8:00 pm, we all knelt to pray and were to partner with whomever was sitting next to us. I excused myself, and told them I needed to pray by myself tonight. I thought to myself, I can't pray for the nation, I can't even get a date out of God, how can I expect anything good to happen for the nation!

So I knelt at my chair and thought about why God would thwart my going out with Bill B. I was beginning to feel really punished. It was then with my eyes closed, I saw a wide field with a huge round vertical glass pipe or silo about 50 feet across erected from the field up into the clouds above. About 300 feet up the clear pipe, I could see what looked like an enormous hairball. As I focused on it, I saw that the hair was moving. It was a gigantic nest of snakes!

All at once I "knew" the meaning of the vision I was seeing. The nest of snakes was my sin which was preventing all God's blessings from reaching me.

Oh, I had never asked for forgiveness for the adultery, I thought to myself. I’ll ask for forgiveness, and then, maybe He’ll bring me a man.

I started to pray for God to forgive me for the adultery, and to cleanse me of all my sins. I prayed the same prayer as King David did after he had sinned with Bathsheba, a verse I had memorized as a child. "Create in me a clean heart, Oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me."

You would think I was now happy, but I wasn't. I was still very sad and lonely. I began to think about my old relationship, and how meeting someone new would have been so great. And on top of that, Bill B. was a Christian! I knew it must have been God that prevented me from meeting him... Thick-headed as I was, I prayed, "Don't you want me to date a Christian?"

The response was like thunder! "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Boy that shut me up! I had never heard God's voice before. And even though it wasn't an audible voice, I heard it loud and clear.

And He said, No????? I suddenly felt He was going to say more, so I stilled myself and started listening expectantly... He continued,

"YOU LOOK TO MAN FOR YOUR LOVE. I WANT TO BE YOUR LOVE.

YOU LOOK TO MAN FOR YOUR SECURITY. I WANT TO BE YOUR SECURITY.

YOU WILL NOT DATE FOR A SEASON. YOU WILL BE IN DROUGHT. AND WHEN YOUR HEART MELTS, I WILL SEND THE RAIN."

Suddenly, I knew that I knew that I knew God existed! I don't think in all my life I ever knew for sure until that moment. And what's more, He was speaking to me!

I was in such awe I repented again whole-heartedly this time and was saved, and filled with unshakable faith. This was immediately followed by His awesome outpouring of His Spirit and with power. I felt it physically. It felt like being drenched with a vessel of warm oil pouring over the top of my head and quickly engulfing me. My prior grief I had been burdened with for months while I was entrenched in the destructive sin suddenly disappeared and was replaced with extreme joy that caused my cheeks to hurt from smiling. The sudden departure of that burden made me feel buoyed up by love, and light as a feather. Isaiah 61:3 describes it best. "The oil of joy for mourning." It's literal! I even looked at my feet to see if they were still on the floor!

That night I saw the heart of Jesus for the first time, how crushed He was by my sin. It broke my heart, and then I truly repented for the first time in my life. That repentance was real. It wasn't the usual apathetic, or even formal, just mouthing the words, "oh, yes, and forgive me of my sins." Nor, was it even what I had prayed just moments before after seeing the vision of the clog of snakes preventing God from bringing the blessing of another man into my life! It was saving repentance. I wanted to turn away from, and to be cleansed of every sin I could think of, and those I couldn't. I wanted to be scrubbed clean and never get dirty ever again! Not because I was afraid of hell or wanted blessings, but because when I finally knew He existed, loved me and wanted my love, I fell madly in love with him! He then filled me with His Holy Spirit to overflowing. He not only had a clean vessel to enter, He had my whole heart and soul.

I was now saved! Oh, what a sobering thought! You see, I had grown up in church, and attended as an adult for most my life for nearly 30 years, always feeling the call on my life, but "many are called, few are chosen." I loved the Lord, or maybe the idea of the Lord, but I didn't respect or "fear" Him enough to not willfully sin. My sensual desires always came first.

And now, every week after that, the gifts of the Holy Spirit were ever present in my life, which up until then I had never known, and I was drawn closer and closer to God. All I wanted to do was study God's Word, listen to teaching tapes and Christian music, and listen for His voice. But, the true confirmation and evidence that I was now saved and filled with His Holy Spirit was I could now see sin as He did. I no longer wanted to sin. It didn't "call" to me. My desires had taken a 180 degree about face immediately, though I still loved my lover but now in a pure way and would respect him for the rest of my life, and even though it wasn’t long before he wanted me back, I was a different person. I knew I wanted God, and wanted to give up everything for Him. And God’s grace was sufficient. He gave me power over my flesh I had never known before. I was truly a new creation. It wasn't merely a scripture to quote, but a reality. I had a new mind, an obedient heart and a sensitive spirit for God to nurture and sustain.
What a beautiful testimony. God has certainly blessed you. Your friend in Christ, Bob
 
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The7thColporteur

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Jesus died to ransom those who transgressed against a specific Law. What was that Law?

Show me where Jesus died for transgression of this 'new law' you speak of.

Jesus is made a High priest to administer the blood of the true sacrifice for that original transgressed law.

Show me where Jesus is made a high priest to adminster the blood of the true sacrifice for that original transgressed law, for this 'new law' that you speak of, since it has no sacrifice for it, no blood for it, and therefore can have no priest for such.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Jesus died to ransom those who transgressed against a specific Law. What was that Law?

Show me where Jesus died for transgression of this 'new law' you speak of.

Jesus is made a High priest to administer the blood of the true sacrifice for that original transgressed law.

Show me where Jesus is made a high priest to adminster the blood of the true sacrifice for that original transgressed law, for this 'new law' that you speak of, since it has no sacrifice for it, no blood for it, and therefore can have no priest for such.
I've lost your train of thought. I wonder if you are referring to Hebrews 7.12 and Hebrews 7.19; but I can't speculate.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Typical denial of Deuteronomy 4:13.
Not at all. You missed the distinction made in Exodus 19, which I already demonstrated between the 'old covenant', in Exodus 19:8 KJB, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.", and God's "My covenant", also "his covenant", which is the Everlasting Covenant.

As stated earlier, which you did not read, there are two things in Exodus 19, not one. There is a difference between God's "My covenant" [Psalms 89:34 KJB] and their covenant [Hebrews 8:6-8 KJB].

You automatically assume when the Bible says "covenant", in such locations, that it means 'old covenant'. The case is not so. Your error, not mine.
 
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The7thColporteur

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Under the OC it was an external law written on tablets of stone. Under the NC it is an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(Jeremiah31:31-34, Heb10:15-18, 2cor3:3)
When did this 'new law' come into effect?
 
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Marco70

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Its quite simple to know which law has been written on your mind and placed on your heart under the core terms of the NC

Our SDA friends would agree:

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John 3:4

They would also agree:
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Rom 3:20

What is in your mind, you in your mind must know

And that law which is in your heart, must bring heartfelt conviction of sin when you break it. Irrefutable!!




 
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klutedavid

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God's Law not only shows persons their need of a Saviour, even down to this very day, which demonstrates their inviolability and eternal nature, but they are also each a promise of God to the New Man, in that in the New Covenant, God says, "I will ....", and through faith in that promises understand the mercy-side of God's character [The Ten Commandments], such that, He promises that:

we will not have other gods before Him.

we will not make graven images or bow down to serve them.

we will not take the name of the LORD our God in vain.

we will Remember to keep His Sabbath, the 7th Day, the LORD's day, Holy.

we will honour our Father and mother, and inherit the new Heaven and Earth, the land of the promise.

we will not kill/murder.

we will not commit adultery.

we will not steal.

we will not bear false witness against our near-brother.

we will not covet our near-brother's wife or house or things.

Why, because they are God's own immutable character, and we are re-made in His image and likeness.

So why does it say that we will not commit adultery? It is because God is perfectly faithful in His promises.

So why does it say that we will not kill/murder? It is because God Himself is eternal life.

So why does it say that we will not steal? It is because God gave His only begotten Son, even all things in Him, withholding nothing.

So why does it say that we will not covet? It is because God is self-less love.

So why does it say that we shall honour our Father and mother? It is because God is honourable and honours those who honour Him, and New Jerusalem above is the mother of us all, and whosoever does the will of God is His brother, sister and mother.

So why does it say that we shall Remember to keep the Sabbath holy? It is because God Himself is Holy, and the Author and Finisher of our Faith, perfecting the Love of God in us.

So why does it say that we shall not take His name in vain? It is because the name of God is love itself, and He cannot deny His character.

etc...

Do you realize that anyone in breaking God's Sabbath and disregarding His explicit command, they have broken all the commandments?

1. Placing another as 'god" before God, for they acknowledge another and obey them
2. They have an idol, either of self, or another, they serve another, rather than the Creator [the LORD of the 7th Day]
3. They have taken God's name in vain, for they do not have His character [which the Law is a transcript of]
4. They have not rested, but worked, not believed but doubted
5. They dishonoured their Father in Heaven [Isaiah 58:13 KJB], and their Mother [Galatians 4:26 KJB]
6. They have murdered themselves, not resting, but continuing to work
7. They have commited adultery having left subjection to God, for another's will
8. They have stolen themselves from God, and thieved the time that belonged to Him, living as they pleased
9. They have born false witness in the world as to who God is, what His character is like
10. They have coveted their own ideas, plans and time rather than God's will.
Why is that commandment not important? It has the word Holy in it, the Holy Commandment [2 Peter 2:21 KJB]. It has God's actual name YHVH in it, describing His authority, position and kingdom.

The Sabbath commandment, a promise as are all the others, describes the moral aspect of God's character:

1. God is relational, God to man, and man to man, an at-one-ing God.
2. God is purposeful, God gives purpose, of work and rest.
3. God is Creator and Redeemer, and concerns Himself in love to that which is created, thus He is Life
4. God is an Author and Finisher, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the ending, First and the last
5. God is Holy, and the Sanctifier and the one who Blesses
6. God is above nature, greater than creation
7. God is the example for all creation, in that He worked and in that He rested
8. God is selfless, being the giver, for it was given as a gift
9. God is logical, mathematical, orderly, consistent, star systems, planets, orbits, days, years, cycles, etc
10. God is no respecter of persons
11. God is worthy to be worshipped, loved, etc
12. God is the owner and sustainer
13. God is all about family, cohesive love
14. God is intelligent and wise, thus "remember" [a word, re-member, to bring back together as one, at-one-ment]
15. God is fore-thinking
etc.
You left out so many sins, gluttony, sorcery, gambling, gossiping, e.t.c.

You may in the end be accused of being lawless yourself, as the ten commandments cannot cover these deeds of the flesh.

The deeds of the flesh are legion, the letter of the law is ten.

Your not addressing the problem.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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By the time John wrote Revelation the common phrase or identity of the first day of the week was spoken of as the Lord's day. This is easily provable through the historical record and has been done here in this section of the forum.

Well that has no truth in it please show scripture that says Sunday is the LORDS DAY?

John is referring to Jesus as the CREATOR GOD (John 1:1-14) when using the phrase "Lord's day" As creator he created all the days in the week but it was the SEVENTH DAY that Jesus made HOLY. Hence in the scriptures we read...

MATTHEW 12:8 [8], The son of man is LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY = THE LORDS DAY = Therefore, John was in the Spirit on the SABBATH DAY (LORD'S DAY).

John used the term "LORDS DAY" to refer to Jesus as the CREATOR GOD or God of creation.

This is a term the Jews rejected because they did not accept Jesus as the Messaiah or the God of creation.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said:
Of course I do it is not very difficult when you believe God's WORD..

Please explain the word under.

LoveGodsWord said:
Now your just making stuff up. This is sad for you. There is nothing posted that is out of CONTEXT as it is a topical study on what God's WORD says SIN is.

No because first of all The Christians isn't obligated to that covenant. Sin was before the national law given to Israel at Sinai Romans 5:13). Thus sin isn't merely breaking that law. It also breaks that law as the verse you base your idea on says. That verse doesn't indicate obligation to keep the 4th commandment which is your only purpose in arguing.

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really Bob, you have been provided with scriptures. You have provided none in return to the posts and scriptures that disagree with you.

Only when you deny the Scripture posted is Scripture.


Now listed,

You have made three separate posts above, and all your doing is talking very small sections out of larger posts sent you supported by scripture that disagree with you to make up strawmen arguments I am not even talking about.

Please show what it is in my posts that you disagree with and prove why you disagree from scripture alone. If you cannot it only proves your error.
 
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