COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

The7thColporteur said:

I cited that in my previous posts. It doesn't matter what I think, only what God said, it is written.

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You didn't quote what it meant though.

1stcenturylady said:

You didn't quote what it meant though.

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Yes I did, here - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

Bob S said:

... Paul calls the Sabbath of Israel a shadow...

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No he didn't and I demonstrated that here - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

The7thColporteur said:

If I may ask, since when is the Ten Commandments of God ever "shadow"? The scripture says:

Proverbs 6:23 KJB - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Psalms 119:105 KJB - NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

Will you tell me Colossians 2:16-17? See the context, and compare to Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. Those are carnal and shadowy things.

God's Ten Commandments are Light and Spiritual things:

Romans 7:14 KJB - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.​

See for yourself:

Show me the word "sabbath", "law", "commandment/s", "the 7th day" in the passages of Romans 14 KJB.

Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another.

Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offence at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish beleivers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do.

If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Comamndments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

[ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]
​

etc.

It's easy to turn a willingly blind eye to evidence when it doesn't suit our own sins and rebellion to God, even to Jesus commandment to repent [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB].​

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The7thColporteur said:

Yes I did, here - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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Here is what you said - was there more?


2 Peter 2:21 KJB - For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So what did the holy commandment say?

1stcenturylady said:

Here is what you said - was there more?


2 Peter 2:21 KJB - For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So what did the holy commandment say?

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If you would quote the context of the link I gave:

The7thColporteur said:

Yes, 'prelude', for the 'old covenant' [Exodus 19:3-9 KJB, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"] was made three days before [Exodus 19:10-11 KJB] God's "My Covenant" [the Everlasting/New covenant, of which the Ten Commandments are central in] was spoken aloud from Heaven [Psalms 89:34 KJB].

Indeed, in obeying God, we are to be a Holy nation, as Peter quotes from the OT [1 Peter 2:9 KJB] as does John [Revelation 1:6, 5:10 KJB], but notice where such is being also quoted from, see Exodus 22:31; Leviticus 11:44,45, 19:2, 20:7,26; 1 Peter 1:15,16; 2 Peter 3:11, KJB etc. They are quoting from right smack in the middle of dietary, etc. law, which is required for holiness! For what one eats and drinks affects the mind/heart. Numerous texts on this if needed.

The very Ten Commandments are Holy:

Romans 7:12 KJB - Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.​

The Sabbath Commandment the only one with the word Holy in it:

Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.​

Notice what Peter said of this "holy commandment":

2 Peter 2:21 KJB - For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.​

For to knowingly transgress it, is to reject the Creator who is the re-Creator and indeed owner, having purchased us at such a price, the Redeemer from Sin [1 John 3:4; Matthew 1:21 KJB, etc].

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The7thColporteur said:

If you would quote the context of the link I gave:

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Oh, so you think it meant the 4th commandment out of 10 because of the word "holy." Right?

1stcenturylady said:

Oh, so you think it meant the 4th commandment out of 10 because of the word "holy." Right?

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Please read what I wrote already:

The7thColporteur said:

I cited that in my previous posts. It doesn't matter what I think, only what God said, it is written.

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The7thColporteur said:

Please read what I wrote already:

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I think you need to read verse 21 in context of verse 20. The holy commandment is to believe on Jesus.

1stcenturylady said:

I think you need to read verse 21 in context of verse 20. The holy commandment is to believe on Jesus.

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What does the name of Jesus mean according to scripture? I pray you begin to think deeply about all of the connections that are in God's word.

The7thColporteur said:

What does the name of Jesus mean according to scripture? I pray you begin to think deeply about all of the connections that are in God's word.

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Good night.

edited likewise.

The7thColporteur said:

Utterly false, but you are of your father who accuses ... Jesus is the JEHOVAH E/Immanuel of the Sabbath, and without Him it is empty.

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Yes, I'm sorry. I am not of Satan, but of the Spirit, and the Spirit told me to erase my post, which I already did.

The7thColporteur said:

Utterly false, but you are of your father who accuses ... Jesus is the JEHOVAH E/Immanuel of the Sabbath, and without Him it is empty.

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20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

If we have the 10 C, why did Jesus come and die. What did he accomplish?

JESUS means JEHOVAH is Saviour or JEHOVAH Saves.


As it is written:
As it is written of JEHOVAH Jesus:

And again:


Those spoke of JEHOVAH Immanuel, as do these:

What is this "sin/s" that Jesus would save us from?

What Law?

Which Law deals with murder?


Why is that Law [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB] important? Because it carries the name of God [JEHOVAH] in it who saves us out of the bondage of Egypt, worldliness and sin:


Just as Jesus said:


Therefore, do not refuse that "holy commandment". Of course it begins with Jesus. He is the LORD of the Sabbath, the Author and Finisher [the Sabbath is the sign of a finished work, the sign of faith] of our Faith. To turn from the Holy Commandment, Exodus 20:8 KJB, is to reject Jesus, the LORD [JEHOVAH E/Immanuel] of the Sabbath, thus to reject the finished work, which is why many christians are first day christians, being just as in Genesis, in spiritual darkness, unformed and unfilled, incomplete and unfulfilled.

To reject that Law is to reject the Holy Commandment, because that person did not allow Jesus to save them from all their sins [1 John 3:4 KJB], but they instead clung to transgression of one.

1stcenturylady said:

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

If we have the 10 C, why did Jesus come and die. What did he accomplish?

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Yes the knowledge of Jesus, consider:


Read that very carefully. What do you see? The entire everlasting Gospel is in that singular verse and most people miss it. Look. It hangs on the words "Behold" and "which".

It is not enough to have the Ten Commandments, if we do not know how to fulfil it. Jesus's life showed how. He is the substitute and example.

The7thColporteur said:

Yes the knowledge of Jesus, consider:

John 1:29 KJB - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.​

Read that very carefully. What do you see? The entire everlasting Gospel is in that singular verse and most people miss it. Look. It hangs on the words "Behold" and "which".

It is not enough to have the Ten Commandments, if we do not know how to fulfil it. Jesus's life showed how.

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The law was added because of sin, and it showed us our sin. Jesus took away our sin, and in Him is no sin, so if we do not have a sin nature, and follow after the Holy Spirit who does not sin, do we still need the law?

1stcenturylady said:

The law was added because of sin, and it showed us our sin. Jesus took away our sin, and in Him is no sin, so if we do not have a sin nature, and follow after the Holy Spirit who does not sin, do we still need the law?

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The Law of God was written down that's true, but it already existed, which is how men knew they sinned.

Galatians 3:24,25 KJB, etc:

Verse 24 and 25 also refer to the Moral Law also, in that it too leads us, by its demand for perfect obedience to Christ, for without Him, we cannot comply with its perfect way of living, for Christ Jesus is the Living embodiment of it, since it is merely a written transcription of His Living character. Thus the Law of Ten Commandments upon stone while the Moral Law of God, Jesus Christ Himself is the eternal Living example, everlasting Living Demonstration of it in action, lived out perfectly. Yet the Ten Commandments upon stone is not enough, for it must by the means of Christ Jesus, be written upon our hearts, that we too, as Christ Jesus, may live it out in the life, even eternally as He does.

What then of Vs 25? No longer “under a schoolmaster”, if the “Law” of Galatians 3:24 refers not only to the ceremonial laws, but also to the Moral Law itself as given in the Ten Commandments upon stone tables? Well, this question was given in another way by Paul, in Romans 3:19-31 and in Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16, etc.

Notice, that being “under the law” or even “schoolmaster” [speaking at this time of the Moral for the moment], meant to be living in condemnation, for by it [the Moral Law] is the knowledge of sin [Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4, etc], and we would be under its penalty [second death, Romans 6:23] for any and all transgression of it. Thus, by that knowledge, of condemnation because of our transgressions, we would also recognize [or see] the need of a [the] Saviour, Jesus Christ, who would save us “from” [Matthew 1:21] our sins.

The ceremonial laws and the Moral Law cannot save, but Jesus Christ can. Therefore, the ceremonial laws were given to point to Christ Jesus as how He would saves us from our sins [transgression of the Moral Law] and the Moral Law as written upon stone tables, revealed the very severity of our lost condition, and so look unto God for salvation from transgression/sin.

Thus, so we need the ceremonial laws? Only as in their reality, anti-type, Christ Jesus and that which He does in the Heavenly sanctuary. Therefore we need Him as the sacrifice, His blood, His High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly, etc. We are to be living sacrifices, giving the sacrifices of praise, living to the glory of God for so great salvation, etc.

Thus, so do we need the Moral Law? Yes, but not merely externally [as only that which condemns all sin], once we have seen our need of Jesus Christ as Saviour from the 2nd death, but more importantly that it should be written internally [that is upon the heart/mind, Jeremiah 31;31-34, etc] by the Holy Spirit, to be lived by the power/strength given of God by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit indwelling.

We see it not as the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, after that we have Christ Jesus, but we see it presently as the perfect promises of God [God says, I promise, in Christ Jesus, fulfilling my Everlasting Covenant, that Thou shalt not steal... not commit adultery, not kill, and that thou shalt honour thy father and mother, and thou shall Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy, etc, etc, not as mere prohibitions, but as His faithful promises to us, in what He would work out in us, by/through faith in Him, in what He accomplishes/finishes] as the way to live in Christ Jesus, for He demonstrates it in love for us by the way in which He continually lives.

I no longer have to think upon the Moral Law, as to how shall it be done, accomplished in my own strength, but rather I, in salvation offered of God, look now to Christ Jesus and His strengthening of me, and say, Ah! I see [in the life of Jesus], that is how it [the will of God, His Law, Character] is done, that is how it is obeyed, to be lived, to be followed, to be practiced, to be taught [not something of mere words, but of demonstration], etc. It is the difference between a textbook explanation of something, and experiencing the real live demonstration and practice of that which was explained in the textbook.

Therefore, does Galatians get rid of the Moral Law? No. What it does do, is it takes the Moral Law from merely a written theory [also a condemnation] to the very real practical demonstration [and fulfillment of their promises, thus no longer condemnation] in the Christian Life. Merely saying, “Lord, Lord” and not “doing” the things which Jesus said to do, is not enough. It is as the righteousness of the Pharisees, as of Nicodemus. Ours must far exceed that. Our righteousness must be of Christ Jesus. Wherein He said, “... I have kept my Fathers Commandments and abide in His love.”


Therefore, is the promises of God [of the New Covenant, and to inherit the New Heaven and New Earth] against the Law of God?


Therefore, since the Law of God is not “against” the promises, they work in harmony and atonement with them, serving its purpose.

Thus as I stated:

The7thColporteur said:

Yes the knowledge of Jesus, consider:

John 1:29 KJB - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.​

Read that very carefully. What do you see? The entire everlasting Gospel is in that singular verse and most people miss it. Look. It hangs on the words "Behold" and "which".

It is not enough to have the Ten Commandments, if we do not know how to fulfil it. Jesus's life showed how. He is the substitute and example.

Click to expand...

The7thColporteur said:

The Law of God was written down that's true, but it already existed, which is how men knew they sinned.

Galatians 3:24,25 KJB, etc:

Verse 24 and 25 also refer to the Moral Law also, in that it too leads us, by its demand for perfect obedience to Christ, for without Him, we cannot comply with its perfect way of living, for Christ Jesus is the Living embodiment of it, since it is merely a written transcription of His Living character. Thus the Law of Ten Commandments upon stone while the Moral Law of God, Jesus Christ Himself is the eternal Living example, everlasting Living Demonstration of it in action, lived out perfectly. Yet the Ten Commandments upon stone is not enough, for it must by the means of Christ Jesus, be written upon our hearts, that we too, as Christ Jesus, may live it out in the life, even eternally as He does.

What then of Vs 25? No longer “under a schoolmaster”, if the “Law” of Galatians 3:24 refers not only to the ceremonial laws, but also to the Moral Law itself as given in the Ten Commandments upon stone tables? Well, this question was given in another way by Paul, in Romans 3:19-31 and in Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16, etc.

Notice, that being “under the law” or even “schoolmaster” [speaking at this time of the Moral for the moment], meant to be living in condemnation, for by it [the Moral Law] is the knowledge of sin [Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4, etc], and we would be under its penalty [second death, Romans 6:23] for any and all transgression of it. Thus, by that knowledge, of condemnation because of our transgressions, we would also recognize [or see] the need of a [the] Saviour, Jesus Christ, who would save us “from” [Matthew 1:21] our sins.

The ceremonial laws and the Moral Law cannot save, but Jesus Christ can. Therefore, the ceremonial laws were given to point to Christ Jesus as how He would saves us from our sins [transgression of the Moral Law] and the Moral Law as written upon stone tables, revealed the very severity of our lost condition, and so look unto God for salvation from transgression/sin.

Thus, so we need the ceremonial laws? Only as in their reality, anti-type, Christ Jesus and that which He does in the Heavenly sanctuary. Therefore we need Him as the sacrifice, His blood, His High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly, etc. We are to be living sacrifices, giving the sacrifices of praise, living to the glory of God for so great salvation, etc.

Thus, so do we need the Moral Law? Yes, but not merely externally [as only that which condemns all sin], once we have seen our need of Jesus Christ as Saviour from the 2nd death, but more importantly that it should be written internally [that is upon the heart/mind, Jeremiah 31;31-34, etc] by the Holy Spirit, to be lived by the power/strength given of God by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit indwelling.

We see it not as the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, after that we have Christ Jesus, but we see it presently as the perfect promises of God [God says, I promise, in Christ Jesus, fulfilling my Everlasting Covenant, that Thou shalt not steal... not commit adultery, not kill, and that thou shalt honour thy father and mother, and thou shall Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy, etc, etc, not as mere prohibitions, but as His faithful promises to us, in what He would work out in us, by/through faith in Him, in what He accomplishes/finishes] as the way to live in Christ Jesus, for He demonstrates it in love for us by the way in which He continually lives.

I no longer have to think upon the Moral Law, as to how shall it be done, accomplished in my own strength, but rather I, in salvation offered of God, look now to Christ Jesus and His strengthening of me, and say, Ah! I see [in the life of Jesus], that is how it [the will of God, His Law, Character] is done, that is how it is obeyed, to be lived, to be followed, to be practiced, to be taught [not something of mere words, but of demonstration], etc. It is the difference between a textbook explanation of something, and experiencing the real live demonstration and practice of that which was explained in the textbook.

Therefore, does Galatians get rid of the Moral Law? No. What it does do, is it takes the Moral Law from merely a written theory [also a condemnation] to the very real practical demonstration [and fulfillment of their promises, thus no longer condemnation] in the Christian Life. Merely saying, “Lord, Lord” and not “doing” the things which Jesus said to do, is not enough. It is as the righteousness of the Pharisees, as of Nicodemus. Ours must far exceed that. Our righteousness must be of Christ Jesus. Wherein He said, “... I have kept my Fathers Commandments and abide in His love.”

1 Thessalonians 4;9 KJB - But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.​

Therefore, is the promises of God [of the New Covenant, and to inherit the New Heaven and New Earth] against the Law of God?

Galatians 3:21 KJB - Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

Therefore, since the Law of God is not “against” the promises, they work in harmony and atonement with them, serving its purpose.

Thus as I stated:

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So, then once you've been baptized with the Holy Spirit and while walking in the Spirit we cannot sin, then Christ's Spirit is all we need. The Spirit sows the fruit of the Spirit, and produces love, thus the moral laws are kept.

Good night.

1stcenturylady said:

So, then once you've been baptized with the Holy Spirit and while walking in the Spirit we cannot sin, then Christ's Spirit is all we need. The Spirit sows the fruit of the Spirit, and produces love, thus the moral laws are kept.

Good night.

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What is love? How shall it be fulfilled?

Thus, again, Jesus is God, Jesus demonstrated how to fulfill love:

Jesus did you sin? No, He walked in the Spirit:


Jesus. Behold Him in His life. He keeps the Sabbath Holy. This, if we truly Behold Jesus, as here and in all things He did, will take away our sins, because as He is in His holy life, so we are to become and as He overcame we too are to overcome. Those not keeping the commandments as Jesus did, are not Beholding Him in the way the truth and the life, and are not having their sins taken away, but remain in them, looking unto another example instead. They want a substitute but not the example. They want the name, but not the character.

The7thColporteur said:

Ask yourself "why" did Paul find the Law of Life, to be death:

Romans 7:10 KJB - And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Romans 7:11 KJB - For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Romans 7:12 KJB - Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment h

The7thColporteur said:

Ask yourself "why" did Paul find the Law of Life, to be death:

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The7thColporteur said:

Romans 7:10 KJB - And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Romans 7:11 KJB - For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Romans 7:12 KJB - Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:13 KJB - Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.​

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oly, and just, and good.

Romans 7:13 KJB - Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.​

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Be warned, when you debate with this poster, he refuses to answer your questions(but claims he has answered them) He cannot respond to points made often, because he has no answer to them I imagine, and you only have to check his exegesis of Matt5:19 to see if you believe can he well interpret scripture.
And what is the point of debating sda anyway? When you recite the bible word for word, where it states believers die to the law and have been released from the law, all you get in response is the bearing of false witness. You are told you are putting your own words above the bibles. So sda theology doesn't work does it. Seems to me to be a licence to sin, from my experience. I went to an sda church for a couple of months to please someone. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. People laughing as they took the Lords name in vain. Affairs the like of which I have never seen in any other church I have ever been to. People filled with all manner of concupiscence(Rom7:7) Not hard to understand according to the biblical message. Though it should be added in church on a Saturday people looked Godly on the outside(apart from laughing as they took the Lords name in vain)











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