Freedom from religion.

W2L said:

Im not attacking, im criticising. You should not come to GT unless you are willing to be criticized.

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They're attacks. You're going beyond mere criticism when you ignore what we say and respond to what you wanted us to say. You're attributing motives and claims to us that aren't reflected in our comments. These are attacks, not criticisms.

mdamon0501 said:

Certainly right, community is central, but also, the word always used in the NT is fellowship.

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Only in certain translations.

☦Marius☦ said:

I would be willing to die for my Church in the honor of all its martyrs, monks, priest, laymen, saints- and all those who have gone before me suffering to proclaim the resurrection of Christ.

To die in the name of Christ is the greatest honor one can have

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You're a good kid but Jesus has already did that .. Matthew 9:36-38 .. Test yourself, fast, pray, get persecuted for your testimony of Jesus and get out there and bring in some harvest in Jesus name ..

W2L said:

You all asserted, via scripture, that we must submit to leadership. So i ask, whos leadership? Your church? BTW, this is my thread and i'll ask any question i think is relevant. That's how we get to the truth. Now, whos church should i submit to?

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For the last time: No, we didn't. Why do you think I keep claiming that you're attacking us? You're attributing things to us that neither of us suggested.

W2L said:

You all asserted, via scripture, that we must submit to leadership. So i ask, whos leadership? Your church? BTW, this is my thread and i'll ask any question i think is relevant. That's how we get to the truth. Now, whos church should i submit to?

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Well you can probably guess which church we would recommend you go to by each of our faiths. But you are accusing us of telling you to submit to the Catholic church, which nobody has. If you are saying the verses we give are telling you to submit to an authority, then that is for you to decide of which you submit to.

4x4toy said:

You're a good kid but Jesus has already did that .. Matthew 9:36-38 .. Test yourself, fast, pray, get persecuted for your testimony of Jesus and get out there and bring in some harvest in Jesus name ..

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Revelation 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

W2L said:

Ok, which assembly? Yours? See? Im not using a strawman, im directly answering your comments with a legitimate question.

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Obviously I would recommend the Orthodox Church. Like Protestants we resisted the increase in Papal authority. The only difference is we didn't just slowly become a new tradition. We are one half of the original church, the half that in my opinion has kept the apostolic teachings, and kept Christ at the head instead of a man. We follow the church councils.

I am sure the Latins will answer differently.

Satisfied?

☦Marius☦ said:

Only in certain translations.

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I believe the Greek highly supports that translation of that specific word. But I would be interested In reading a translation without it if you can lead me to it. Even the KJV I believe uses that term.

TuxAme said:

That's not the correct definition. You're using a definition unrelated to what the subject is. The correct definition in this context would be "relating to or believing in a religion".

You have to play word games to come to this conclusion.

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No word games needed at all.
Just practical examples.
Every religion on this planet has one thing in common.
And that is "what do I have to do get to to God".
Christianity is the only belief where God seeks man.
BTW, I believe Catholics are Christians as well as they rely on Jesus Christ for there salvation.

W2L said:

Ok so you are not saying that i must submit to any church. Ok, got it. I'll hold you to that.

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W2L said:

If im following the scriptures im not leaning on my own understanding. Leadership was needed in the churches before we had the NT, matter of fact that leadership is the NT, i.e. epistles, gospel which teach us what the apostles commanded. I cant believe you would say to submit to a church, even one you wouldn't join yourself, such as a protestant church, but you wouldnt say to submit to scripture?

Thats another thing i disagree with. Join any church! it doesn't matter, as long as you don't think for yourself! Thats just crazy.

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I didn't say join any church. I said think for yourself. I'm not sure what you are wanting here? On one hand you are complaining we are trying to force Catholicism on you, and then complaining when we are specifically trying to avoid making this thread about that. We were doing it out of respect of trying to keep on topic, not because we don't believe in our own church's.

I am about as far opposite of a universalist as one can get. I believe only one Church can have the correct teaching, and that all should follow those teachings. Now while I don't believe that means salvation is exclusive to that church, because I believe in God's mercy, I think it is 100% more difficult for a seeker to find the narrow path if he cannot find accurate teachings.

I would not recommend going to a protestant church, or any other Church but the Orthodox Church. But what I was saying is that it is better to submit to any church than to nobody. And the reason for that is Humility

Humility is the most important thing a Christian should have. Pride was the first sin, and is the root of all sin.

Also I believe worship is meant to be communal, as well as communion. So yes. Anything is better than nothing, but that doesn't mean I don't believe the Orthodox Church has THE way.

W2L said:

Like i said, you worry about your obedience to God and i'll worry about mine. Case closed.

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Why did you respond to my post this way? I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about what the concept of communion entails.

As far as going to church goes, i have lived with social anxiety for a long time. Its very possible that one day i'll go to church, but if not then i am not lost. Im saved and spirit lead. My social problems have actually been a blessing. Because i couldn't go to church i came here and searched scripture and found the truth i might not find in church. Without that i would just parrot what my church teaches and never learn.

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Is that how this topic breaks down to you -- either being "free from religion" or "parroting what your church teaches and never learning"? That seems like it's probably untrue to both sides, so I hope that's not where things are going in this thread (though I have some newer posts to catch up on, so I don't know).

Wow. Okay. I think it's probably best that I bow out of this thread, then, as I can't see anything but more contention coming from it. We may be out of the fast for the time being, but the enemy still comes at us in many ways, even during the feast. Thank you for being honest, and I hope that whatever it is that may help you in dealing with the challenges you mentioned in that post will be found in abundance through prayer and supplication before the Lord.

W2L said:

You didnt say that?

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Yes I probably worded that poorly. But as I explained in the next post, that I see it as any authority is better than no authority. Since I seriously doubt you would just jump from non-denom to apostolic whatever that tradition is.

W2L said:

Yes.

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Then you misunderstand the Issue. For instance in the Orthodox Church there are only so many teachings. We have the councils, which created the canons- we follow the NT and OT, and that is pretty much all that is Dogma.

That leaves all else up for debate, and we vigorously debate; but we remain a community because we agree over the main issues that would cause serious schism.