Why is the Rapture So Popular Among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians?

GUANO said:

Because it's much harder to follow a 'god' who would put them through such a thing as the "Tribulation" is described to be... The idea became popular during a generation that never experienced any sort of real 'Tribulation' such as war, disease, or famine. Trust me, the idea isn't prevalent anywhere else other than several countries that are heavily influenced by evangelical denominations.

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Wow! I learned something today. I did NOT learn that there is no such thing as the rapture in the Bible. I knew that after I read it once, the first year after God saved me.

And studying theology and Biblical languages also showed me the exegetical error of thinking that harpazo, ἀρπάζω, which is simply not about a "Rapture" or some Latin mistranslation 400 years later by Jerome. And such bad hermeneutics to make a doctrine out of basically one or two verses. Or stretch a lot of verses to say stuff the original writers and God never meant them to say.

What I learned, is about suffering. I have been severely disabled and in pain for 20 years, and before that, quite sick. But, I am comfortable, I have food, clean water, clean air, and all the basics and more. I have never been actually persecuted for my faith. Sorry, someone condemning me for being a Christian doesn't qualify as persecution.

I look at the Christians who are suffering TERRIBLY around the world, and I really wonder how North Americans in particular can think they are so special, that God will not allow them to suffer? Tell that to believers in China or North Korea or the Middle East. What lies!

There is no Biblical doctrine which says we will be saved from suffering. It is just ridiculous to think God is going to bestow favour, on rich North Americans, when Christians have suffered for the cause of Christ for 2000 years. Or just suffered because we live in a fallen world, like I do every day.

We do not live on a restored earth. Creation itself is groaning, awaiting the return of Christ.

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we sit eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies." Romans 8:22-23

Creation groans for the return of Christ, as we also groan. Or do dispensationalists think we are going to take all of creation along with us, in some unscriptural rapture?

Anyway, I do praise God for a new reason for all the pain and suffering I endure. And that reason is that it helps show me any kind of rapture is not biblical, because the intent is to take Christians away from some kind of future suffering. The fact is, we live with suffering, and if people do not suffer, I would have to ask them what sort of unreal world they are living in, and why are they hanging onto this recent and false doctrine called pre-trib rapture?

Christ is returning ONCE! It is called the "second coming" because Jesus came in the flesh suffered and died for us. He was resurrected and ascended to heaven, where he sits at the right hand of the Father. He is returning again to judge the world, not to take North American believers away from any sort of suffering or trials.

"Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they said. "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

This is how believers were told Jesus would return. That he would come back from heaven, in the same way he left. Except this time, every knee will bow, and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.

"It is written:
“‘As surely as I live, says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God." Romans 14:11

"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
And every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
To the glory of God the Father." Phil. 2:9-11

You're right, many have suffered (and will suffer). Over 50 Millions Christians have been martyred and tortured over the centuries. All the apostles were martyred except for John who was exiled. Peter it is suggested was crucified upside down. And even today, Christians are being martyred all over the world. Jesus did say that all believers woud suffer tribulation but you need to realize "the Great Tribulation" is another matter.
Matthew 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
When this happens I don't think that anyone in their right mind will want to be around and I believe that Jesus will not be letting His bride, the true church go through this.The idea is to purify the earth and bring te wicked to justice not punish the church any more who's been persecuted for so many years. Most of us go through many trials and tribulations as you throughout this life, no need to suffer what's going to take place during that time when all hell breaks loose. God's not going to force you to go through that as long as you remain faithful.

2tim_215 said:

You're right, many have suffered (and will suffer). Over 50 Millions Christians have been martyred and tortured over the centuries. All the apostles were martyred except for John who was exiled. Peter it is suggested was crucified upside down. And even today, Christians are being martyred all over the world. Jesus did say that all believers woud suffer tribulation but you need to realize "the Great Tribulation" is another matter.
Matthew 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
When this happens I don't think that anyone in their right mind will want to be around and I believe that Jesus will not be letting His bride, the true church go through this.The idea is to purify the earth and bring te wicked to justice not punish the church any more who's been persecuted for so many years. Most of us go through many trials and tribulations as you throughout this life, no need to suffer what's going to take place during that time when all hell breaks loose. God's not going to force you to go through that as long as you remain faithful.

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Even in the scripture posted, it's not "The Great Tribulation", it's great tribulation.

The whole idea of a 7year tribulation period is from an interpretation ("the gap theory") of Daniel's seventy sevens (Daniel 9) which is the primary root of most of these weird "antichrist" and "rapture" doctrines. Proponents suggest that the scripture concerning a Prince who would 'confirm a covenant' and 'make an end to the sacrifice' and 'cause it to be desolate' was related to this "antichrist" character when traditionally we ascribed that prophecy to Christ who confirmed the new covenant and made the daily sacrifice unnecessary because He fulfilled the Rite upon his death.

You can't rest so much doctrine on a single scripture... From "the mouths of two or three" at least...

GUANO said:

Even in the scripture posted, it's not "The Great Tribulation", it's great tribulation.

The whole idea of a 7year tribulation period is from an interpretation ("the gap theory") of Daniel's seventy sevens (Daniel 9) which is the primary root of most of these weird "antichrist" and "rapture" doctrines. Proponents suggest that the scripture concerning a Prince who would 'confirm a covenant' and 'make an end to the sacrifice' and 'cause it to be desolate' was related to this "antichrist" character when traditionally we ascribed that prophecy to Christ who confirmed the new covenant and made the daily sacrifice unnecessary because He fulfilled the Rite upon his death.
The "Gap Theory"typically refers to Genesis.
You can't rest so much doctrine on a single scripture... From "the mouths of two or three" at least...

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2 Cor 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. By the testimony of two or three witnesses every word will be established. As for the Tribulation explained in Revelation and what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24, it's far greater than anything that man has ever experienced.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Corinthians 15:51-58 (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
This is a mystery. I wouldn't be dogmatic as far as a rapture is concerned taking place. but by the same token, I wouldn't be dogmatic that God isn't going to take His church out before Satan is allowed to have his way with the earth for a spell. I know if it was my bride to be and I had the ability to remove her from all the devastation that was about to take place, I would, especially with all the persecution that they have gone through. And BTW, for those who think that the only reason I'm saying this is because I think I'm going, that's not true. I don't know, if He does rapture the church, it's up to Him who He takes and there no guarantees as to whoo He brings along.
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. It really boils down to what the Lord wants to do, rapture or not. There's plenty of other indications that a rapture will take place.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

redleghunter said:

Perhaps because they know their Bibles well? Even know what the earliest fathers opined on?

Considering Irenaeus mentioned a post tribulation "caught up" "rapture" in Against Heresies I think your later date is off by 1700 years or so.


Against Heresies Book V Chapter 29:
1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which Godpermitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing; Isaiah 40:15 so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

"Caught up" is harpazo in the Koine Greek. It is also found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The term rapture comes from the Latin Vulgate:

deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

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Thanks for your posting this as you saved me the trouble. I was shocked the Rapture was considered controversial whatsoever. I believe in the Matthew 24 timeline spoken by Jesus hence after the persecution (tribulation) which goes through the Abomination of Desolation, darkening of sun and moon, then the Rapture occurs. Then believers are taken ie the elect. Then God pours out wrath on whomever is left.

That confuses Pre-tribulation Rapture folks because they always say, " But it can come at any time! " And... "But Christians are not appointed to wrath!" The Rapture cannot come at anytime. That is why Jesus said, "Let no one deceive you..." and gave the Matthew 24 timeline. It's actually not complicated.

If you read the Bible, and not the silly Schofield commentary Bible, then it's straight forward. Jesus wanted us to understand this.

CassiusCritzer said:

Thanks for your posting this as you saved me the trouble. I was shocked the Rapture was considered controversial whatsoever. I believe in the Matthew 24 timeline spoken by Jesus hence after the persecution (tribulation) which goes through the Abomination of Desolation, darkening of sun and moon, then the Rapture occurs. Then believers are taken ie the elect. Then God pours out wrath on whomever is left.

That confuses Pre-tribulation Rapture folks because they always say, " But it can come at any time! " And... "But Christians are not appointed to wrath!" The Rapture cannot come at anytime. That is why Jesus said, "Let no one deceive you..." and gave the Matthew 24 timeline. It's actually not complicated.

If you read the Bible, and not the silly Schofield commentary Bible, then it's straight forward. Jesus wanted us to understand this.

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Well what time do you think that it comes. Jesus was the one who said, nobody knows the day or hou when asked by the disciples.

2tim_215 said:

Well what time do you think that it comes. Jesus was the one who said, nobody knows the day or hou when asked by the disciples.

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Tim, it comes my brother in Christ in the order which Jesus stated in Matthew 24. We will definitely know when.the Abomination of Desolation occurs, and then the sun and moon are darkened, and then Jesus comes from the clouds to gather the elect. Elect means believers not Jews. Pre-trib folks like to pretend the word elect means specifically Jews when all through the Bible that word means believers.

CassiusCritzer said:

Tim, it comes my brother in Christ in the order which Jesus stated in Matthew 24. We will definitely know when.the Abomination of Desolation occurs, and then the sun and moon are darkened, and then Jesus comes from the clouds to gather the elect. Elect means believers not Jews. Pre-trib folks like to pretend the word elect means specifically Jews when all through the Bible that word means believers.

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It's defintely not Jews if I read it right. It's the 144,000 converted Jews who will be left to do all the preaching when the church is removed. I didn't get what you were trying to say. And yes, there will be signs (which there is already) telling us as believers to get ready (make sure our wicks are trimmed). He also says He will come as a "thief in the night" for those who aren't prepared. Be blessed brother.

You may wish to participate in the discussion in the Escatology section in the Theology section as we are discussing the quandries of the Abomination of Desolation. As the Atonement did away with animal sacrifices, then how could the 3rd Temple ever be properly built with the authority of Almighty GOD and not violate Leviticus 10 ? It's a complex topic and spiritual meat.

I don't see anything controversial about the Rapture as the Early Church Fathers all believed in an After the Tribulation Rapture. What is controversial is presuming it has already taken place in a metaphorical sense as that is totally without merit. In no way is Lucifer bound in a pit. He is running amok in the world and nearly unchallenged by any in authority.

CassiusCritzer said:

You may wish to participate in the discussion in the Escatology section in the Theology section as we are discussing the quandries of the Ablowomination of Desolation. As the Atonement did away with animal sacrifices, then how could the 3rd Temple ever be properly built with the authority of Almighty GOD and not violate Leviticus 10 ? It's a complex topic and spiritual meat.

I don't see anything controversial about the Rapture as the Early Church Fathers all believed in an After the Tribulation Rapture. What is controversial is presuming it has already taken place in a metaphorical sense as that is totally without merit. In no way is Lucifer bound in a pit. He is running amok in the world and nearly unchallenged by any in authority.

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While I would agree with you for the most part, the Jewish sacrifices were never removed (as far as as the Jewish religion is concerned and theoretically still exists (they just don''t exercise them, still celebrate Yom Kipper) and it's believed by many Theologians that the Jews someday will revert to the sacrifices when they will rebuild the temple and will produce the red heifers which it is reported they have a;ready been able to do.

Jews are not saved by the blood of Jesus who was our sacrificial lamb alleviating the need for animal. sacrifices any more. I agree 100% with you that the Rapture/Tribulation has already occurred. What I don't agree with you is that it will occur after the tribulation although I won''t be dogmatic about it and I don't think that it's a salvation issue. As far as Satan is concerned, we aint seen nothin' yet until the church is removed (thus removing the Holy Spirit), one of the reasons that I don't believe that Jesus will allow His Holy church to go through this time of great devastation. Do you believe if the church was here that Satan will be allowed to run amok the way he will be allowed to at that time?

Heart2Soul said:

I remember my church playing the movie Left Behind.....I never liked it nor agreed with it.....but I didn't become fully convinced that there is no pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture until I read the entire Book of Revelation.....there were just too many scriptures that indicated we would be here. Coming from a background of Baptist to Pentecostal faith I was quite alone in what I believed. Had to keep it to myself for years until more recently where others have started sharing their same beliefs.

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Mat 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
This binding reminds me of Matt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
This all disturbs me, especially with Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Maybe this Taken is like Satan setting himself up in the temple of God (maybe man, not a Jewish temple with the abolished animal sacrifice.) This reminds me of other scriptures 2 tim 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
And another which I think one should read the whole chapter for its importance in end times because Ephraim is not mentioned in the 12 tribes of the 144000 of revelation as well as the tribe of Dan. How-ever I have reached my character limit!

Isaiah 28:
Judgment on Ephraim

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and TAKEN.



Maybe this is more to do with Satan taking one captive, after all in end times, Satan sets himself up in the temple of God (maybe man, not some Jewish temple with animalterr sacrifices) and proclaims himself to be God!

I honestly think the World Wars contributed especially.

Before that, Post Millenialism was actually the big trend for Evangelicals/Protestants. This was what gave rise to movements like the Abolitionists, Hospitals, and Schools galore.. to all of the little things that change a society and help it espouse Christian values.. in the here and now. They bring a little bit of the Kingdom on Earth, as our Lord CALLED us to pray for. "On Earth as it is in Heaven."

And then horror took root after the big wars. I think society has gone either one way since: pointless nihilism and postmodernism. Or some Christians just wanting to leave. It's done a real number on people, subconsciously.. Or so I think.

straykat said:

I honestly think the World Wars contributed especially.

Before that, Post Millenialism was actually the big trend for Evangelicals/Protestants. This was what gave rise to movements like the Abolitionists, Hospitals, and Schools galore.. to all of the little things that change a society and help it espouse Christian values.. in the here and now. They bring a little bit of the Kingdom on Earth, as our Lord CALLED us to pray for. "On Earth as it is in Heaven."

And then horror took root after the big wars. I think society has gone either one way since: pointless nihilism and postmodernism. Or some Christians just wanting to leave. It's done a real number on people, subconsciously.. Or so I think.

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Yes, I think people want to focus on the good things to such a point, they surrender truth for a lie. And forget that God is in the dark cloud.