Is the concept of "back-slidding" biblical?

Albion said:

Then the thing to do would be to avoid using the word apostate when you mean something else.

Click to expand...

Apostasy is a Biblical term.

We use to have a Methodist preacher who was pastor of a Baptist church come to our Pentecostal Holiness church to hold revival. People would ask him all the time how it was that a Methodist could pastor a Baptist church. His answer was the way he saw it the only difference between the two was that the Baptist did not believe in backsliding but the Methodist practiced it!

The advantage as I see it is that the Baptist are more steadfast, but the Methodist revival, if you can find one, richer in spiritual experience.

This sounds like backsliding to me....

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? - Galatians 3

“In Bible college, I sometimes heard professors and chapel speakers say that a Christian college was the easiest place to backslide. What they said about Bible college applies as well to the ministry. The emphasis is simply that serving Christ cannot be a substitute for fellowship with Christ. Working for Him must never take the place of walking with Him.” – My old Baptist preacher, who would take time to teach Bible classes at the local Seminary

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19.

Click to expand...

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

That passage is saying that "Christians" who backslide and leave the Faith were never actually saved at all.

Mskriskris said:

My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

Click to expand...

I would agree -- if you're truly a believer.

Mskriskris said:

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

Click to expand...

Perseverance of the Saints is an important Reformation doctrine. However, I think that some people who call it "once saved always saved" sometimes misunderstand it. It's clear from 1 John 2:19 that those who seemed to be good Christians, and then became atheists, never truly believed in the first place.

On the other hand, some genuine believers (like David) may head off into serious areas of sin and still eventually return to God.

Only God really knows which of the two groups is which.

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19. His stance is a "once saved only save", where once you believe, the most you can do is back slide. My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

The brother bought up David as an example, someone who deeply disregarded God's commands, and willfully sinned. But yet David was a man after God's own heart.

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

But I wanna hear your thoughts on this, I figured it may be a sticky topic.

Click to expand...

The example of David is faulty support for once saved always saved. David indeed committed grievous sins but the critical factor is that he repented of those specific sins and there is no scriptural evidence that he ever engaged in those sins again. Contrast David's example of repentance with a believer who is engaged in habitual adultery with no evidence of repentance; is that backslidden believer still forgiven and saved? Everyone sins and no one is without sin according to 1 John 1:8,10. Note that 1 Jn 1:7 promises that the cleansing blood of Jesus is only efficacious to those believers who are "walking in the light" as that verse begins with the word "IF"which makes this a conditional statement. IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT, as indicated by a lifestyle of general obedience to God, when we do occasionally sin, we repent and are assured of God's forgiveness. On the other hand if a believer's lifestyle is generally marked by disobedience, he/she walks in darkness and does not even have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1:6). Rom 8:13 states that that those brethren who are living according to the flesh (backsliding) must die.

True believers can indeed "unbelieve," or no longer believe. That is why the Greek verb tenses in Jn 3:16 are structured in the present tense; i.e. "believing" - that whoever is believing in Him should not perish but have eternal life. Continuing in belief is required for eternal life. Believers can turn aside to follow Satan (1 Tim 5:15) or choose to follow another gospel (Gal 1:6) and in doing, they revert back to becoming unbelievers. Unless they repent and turn back to God, they die in their sin/unbelief.

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19. His stance is a "once saved only save", where once you believe, the most you can do is back slide. My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

The brother bought up David as an example, someone who deeply disregarded God's commands, and willfully sinned. But yet David was a man after God's own heart.

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

But I wanna hear your thoughts on this, I figured it may be a sticky topic.

Click to expand...

Jeremiah 3:22
Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

If you continue in backsliding, there is no forgiveness. But, as the verse above shows, if we return to living the way He asks us to live, though we have backslid, there will be forgiveness.

Oldmantook said:

The example of David is faulty support for once saved always saved. David indeed committed grievous sins but the critical factor is that he repented of those specific sins and there is no scriptural evidence that he ever engaged in those sins again. Contrast David's example of repentance with a believer who is engaged in habitual adultery with no evidence of repentance; is that believer still forgiven and saved? Everyone sins and no one is without sin according to 1 John 1:8,10. Note that 1 Jn 1:7 promises that the cleansing blood of Jesus is only efficacious to those believers who are "walking in the light" as that verse begins with the word "IF"which makes this a conditional statement. IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT, as indicated by a lifestyle of general obedience to God, when we do occasionally sin, we repent and are assured of God's forgiveness. On the other hand if a believer's lifestyle is generally marked by disobedience, he/she walks in darkness and does not even have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1:6). Rom 8:13 states that that those brethren who are living according to the flesh (backsliding) must die.

True believers can indeed "unbelieve," or no longer believe. That is why the Greek verb tenses in Jn 3:16 are structured in the present tense; i.e. "believing" - that whoever is believing in Him should not perish but have eternal life. Continuing in belief is required for eternal life. Believers can turn aside to follow Satan (1 Tim 5:15) or choose to follow another gospel (Gal 1:6) and in doing, they revert back to becoming unbelievers. Unless they repent and turn back to God, they die in their sin/unbelief.

Click to expand...

Do you think David stop believing?

Hank77 said:

Do you think David stop believing?

Click to expand...

Unsure what you mean by unbelieving? I don't read any scriptures which indicate that David stopped believing in God. However when he realized his sin, with contrite heart he repented of his sins and asked for God's forgiveness.

Oldmantook said:

Unsure what you mean by unbelieving? I don't read any scriptures which indicate that David stopped believing in God. However when he realized his sin, with contrite heart he repented of his sins and asked for God's forgiveness.

Click to expand...

I was just wondering if you thought that David stopped believing for those months between his sin and his repentance, which came about at that time only because God sent Nathan to convict him.

I guess I think it is a journey. I do not think I am big enough to know about the outcome of the decisions of others on their own lives, but simply respond to the one who calls me to take up my cross and follow him.

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19. His stance is a "once saved only save", where once you believe, the most you can do is back slide. My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

The brother bought up David as an example, someone who deeply disregarded God's commands, and willfully sinned. But yet David was a man after God's own heart.

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

But I wanna hear your thoughts on this, I figured it may be a sticky topic.

Click to expand...

What about the prodigal son?

OSAS is refuted by a blizzard of Bible texts. But I will just focus in 3 points on one type of refutation of this heresy:

(1) Possession of the Holy Spirit is a necessary condition for being saved:
"He that does not have the Spirit does not belong to Him (Romans 8)."

(2) Willful sin can prompt God to remove the Holy Spirit from us. Otherwise, David's plea is meaningless:
"Take not your Holy Spirit from me (Psalm 51)."

(3) Using the image of the Spirit as a flame, Paul warns us not to extinguish the Spirit, so that the flame is out and the Spirit is gone:
"Do not extinguish the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5)."

I think of the parable in Luke 15 that Jesus told of the Prodigal Son. He was in his Father's house and asked for his inheritance then squandered it all. He came back to his Father and repented of his sins, and He welcomed the son back with open arms...

When I think of this parable, I think of a true Christian backsliding. Otherwise the son wouldn't have had any inheritance...or even called a son to begin with.

Hank77 said:

I was just wondering if you thought that David stopped believing for those months between his sin and his repentance, which came about at that time only because God sent Nathan to convict him.

Click to expand...

Just my opinion - don't know David's frame of mind regarding his sin prior to Nathan. However, we know that he was convicted of his own sin after Nathan's confrontation. We know that he repented and as far as we know he never repeated those sins. Thus the main point is David sinned and was forgiven but he did not engage in habitual sin.

dreadnought said:

Temptation can be very powerful. I don't know if you can say that people giving into temptation are willfully sinning. Even so, I don't think we enter heaven till we repent of our sin.

Click to expand...

There is nothing powerful in temptation, let's stop giving unnecessary praise to things that aren't worth it.

Oloyedelove said:

There is nothing powerful in temptation, let's stop giving unnecessary praise to things that aren't worth it.

Click to expand...

Oh I believe temptation is powerful. Take drug and alcohol addiction. Not everyone who starts that can just pray and stop. I believe it is willfully sinning against God at first. I think sin like addiction can get to a place where a believer wants to turn back, but the drugs and alcohol control them.

lily00 said:

I think of the parable in Luke 15 that Jesus told of the Prodigal Son. He was in his Father's house and asked for his inheritance then squandered it all. He came back to his Father and repented of his sins, and He welcomed the son back with open arms...

When I think of this parable, I think of a true Christian backsliding. Otherwise the son wouldn't have had any inheritance...or even called a son to begin with.

Click to expand...

Just to add to your comment as I don't think anyone would disagree that the prodigal was a backslider. However also notice that when Jesus told this parable he repeated something about the prodigal twice and when Jesus repeats something we know that he stressing an important point or even his main point of the parable. In Luke 15 in both verses 24 and 32 the Father states that his son was dead and is alive AGAIN. We know that the prodigal didn't physically die so "dead" must mean spiritual death. When the prodigal decided to live a life of sin and disobedience he became spiritually dead. When a person becomes a child of God and is regenerated by the Holy Spirit, he is made alive in Christ. The only way someone can be made alive AGAIN is for a believer who is made alive in Christ (first time) to engage in habitual sin as did the prodigal, thus becoming spiritually dead. When he truly repents and returns to the Father, like the prodigal, he is forgiven and made alive AGAIN (second time). If a backsliding believer does not repent and return back to the Father, he remains spiritually dead.

Romans 7:14-25. We all struggle with the flesh. To say that we are free from sin from the moment we hand our lives to Christ is to lie for none are without sin so long as we are on earth. Some sin catches you when you absent-minded, some when you are weak. What matters is that we humble ourselves before God, ask for forgiveness and bring fruits worthy of repentance.
The mark of saving faith is not that we are free from sin, but the beginning of the struggle between our spirit and our flesh. As we grow in faith, so does our spirit grow and the flesh loses power. It is a process that lasts a lifetime. Each and every temptation is battle than we can win for Christ or for the flesh.
There will be days when you sin more than usual. But what do you do when you fall? You can stay on the ground, or you can get up and try again. Only through faith and prayer do we have the power to wage this war to begin with. To say that we are free from sin from the moment of receiving the Spirit is to fool ourselves.

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19. His stance is a "once saved only save", where once you believe, the most you can do is back slide. My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

The brother bought up David as an example, someone who deeply disregarded God's commands, and willfully sinned. But yet David was a man after God's own heart.

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

But I wanna hear your thoughts on this, I figured it may be a sticky topic.

Click to expand...

Romans 7:15
It wasn't something that was entirely lost on Paul...

Mskriskris said:

I had a discussion with a fellow brother about the concept of backsliding based on the scripture 1 John 2:19. His stance is a "once saved only save", where once you believe, the most you can do is back slide. My stance is more along the lines of John 3:3, where once you are born again, you can't be unborn. If you're truly a believer, you can't unbelieve.

The brother bought up David as an example, someone who deeply disregarded God's commands, and willfully sinned. But yet David was a man after God's own heart.

People do sin, but its hard to see "once saved always save" hold up if a believer is willfully sinning, which is the concept of back-sliding. That you can go through a period of time that you are not following God's Word and still be considered a Christian because you once accepted God before.

But I wanna hear your thoughts on this, I figured it may be a sticky topic.

Click to expand...

Did Judas backslide? What about Lucifer and his followers in heaven and on earth?