Seat of Moses ?

chunkofcoal

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Moses ruled all by himself from his seat (Exodus 18:13), Jethro advised him to appoint leaders to settle lower Court matters, Moses annointed his older brother Aaron as priest. The two sons of Aaron were disqualified from service (Leviticus 10:1-3) before the people because they made a "strange fire". Yeshua mocked the hypocrites by telling them they sit in Moses seat as they teach the people "strange" fiery doctrines. Moses says "honor thy father and mother", the Pharisees make void Moses law (Mark 7:8-13) through ceremonially washing their hands, a duty solely belonging to the priest.
They didn't make void the law of God regarding honoring their father and mother because they were "ceremonially washing their hands"; they made void the law of God -to honor ones father and mother - by taking what they could've (should've) helped their parents with and calling it "Corban"- translated as a "gift".
I read something recently about "corban" and thought it was enlightening.

"Many people interpret the Hebrew word for sacrifice, “korban”, as surrendering something for the good of God, a sort of ritual of exchange whereby man gives his god an animal or some food item and through this concession he appeases his anger and pleases his god. In Judaism, this interpretation is rejected for a simple reason: God, the Creator of all, and the All Powerful, does not need a thing; He does not ask humans to give up anything for Him or lose anything for Him. The Jewish interpretation of the term “korban” is from the Hebrew root of the word which means ‘to get closer’. Through the act of sacrificing, a person (Jew and non-Jew alike) comes closer to God. The sacrifice is an expression of a close, intimate relationship between man and God."

"...in Judaism, the sacrifice is an expression of the close relationship between man and God. But in order for man to get closer to God, he must be worthy. The clear-cut demand expressed by the prophets is that man must live up to the high standards of morality. Only a person who acts with compassion, does acts of charity, opens his heart to others – only such a person is worthy of being close to God.
This perspective that guided the admonishments of the prophets, and about which they warned time and time again, was that the sacrifice was not a means through which man could surrender something and thus appease God’s anger. This misconception led people to behave abominably, only to then rush to the Temple to sacrifice a sacrifice and assume mistakenly that they had been saved from God’s wrath over their misdemeanor. The prophets wanted to abolish this misconception and even warned that it would lead to the destruction of the Temple."

One can read the rest here - פרשת ויקרא – תשע"ח - parasha
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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They didn't make void the law of God regarding honoring their father and mother because they were "ceremoniously washing their hands"; they made void the law of God -to honor ones father and mother - by taking what they could've (should've) helped their parents with and calling it "Corban"- translated as a "gift".
I read something recently about "corban" and thought it was enlightening.

"Many people interpret the Hebrew word for sacrifice, “korban”, as surrendering something for the good of God, a sort of ritual of exchange whereby man gives his god an animal or some food item and through this concession he appeases his anger and pleases his god. In Judaism, this interpretation is rejected for a simple reason: God, the Creator of all, and the All Powerful, does not need a thing; He does not ask humans to give up anything for Him or lose anything for Him. The Jewish interpretation of the term “korban” is from the Hebrew root of the word which means ‘to get closer’. Through the act of sacrificing, a person (Jew and non-Jew alike) comes closer to God. The sacrifice is an expression of a close, intimate relationship between man and God."

"...in Judaism, the sacrifice is an expression of the close relationship between man and God. But in order for man to get closer to God, he must be worthy. The clear-cut demand expressed by the prophets is that man must live up to the high standards of morality. Only a person who acts with compassion, does acts of charity, opens his heart to others – only such a person is worthy of being close to God.
This perspective that guided the admonishments of the prophets, and about which they warned time and time again, was that the sacrifice was not a means through which man could surrender something and thus appease God’s anger. This misconception led people to behave abominably, only to then rush to the Temple to sacrifice a sacrifice and assume mistakenly that they had been saved from God’s wrath over their misdemeanor. The prophets wanted to abolish this misconception and even warned that it would lead to the destruction of the Temple."

One can read the rest here - פרשת ויקרא – תשע"ח - parasha
When did the Torah command the Pharisees to do anything "ceremonially " or especially "publicly " before the people like the priests? Pilate washed his hands before the people when he refused to release Yeshua (Matthew 27:16). They do everything to be seen (Matthew 23:5), what you do for your parents should be done in secret like "circumcision on the 8th day". The law of circumcision is performed by your parents in a "private" place (Matthew 6:4, Romans 2:29).
 
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visionary

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When did the Torah command the Pharisees to do anything "ceremonially " or especially "publicly " before the people like the priests? They do everything to be seen (Matthew 23:5), what you do for your parents should be done in secret like "circumcision on the 8th day". The law of circumcision is performed by your parents in a "private" place (Matthew 6:4, Romans 2:29).
You brought an interesting point. When did Pharisees come about to command anything? Where did they originate? How long have they been around before Yeshua? How did it start with them? How did they get so much power over the people?
 
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pat34lee

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Yet your post went on to confirm the mixture?
Previously...
I already quoted from the temple institute:

I've seen that before. They are wrong, not surprisingly.

The verses in Hebrew or in decent translations do not
mention wool, as it isn't used in linen garments. If they
actually put priests in mixed garments, I would not want
to be them when they try to serve in the temple. Aaron's
sons found out what happened when they didn't follow
the directions they were given to the letter.

6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of
purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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When did the Torah command the Pharisees to do anything "ceremonially " or especially "publicly " before the people like the priests? Pilate washed his hands before the people as well when he refused to release Yeshua. They do everything to be seen (Matthew 23:5), what you do for your parents should be done in secret like "circumcision on the 8th day". The law of circumcision is performed by your parents in a "pri
You brought an interesting point. When did Pharisees come about to command anything? Where did they originate? How long have they been around before Yeshua? How did it start with them? How did they get so much power over the people?
The Pharisees slept in the "bed" of the Roman government, Pharisee Shaul was a well educated Benjamite-Roman citizen.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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I've seen that before. They are wrong, not surprisingly.

The verses in Hebrew or in decent translations do not
mention wool, as it isn't used in linen garments. If they
actually put priests in mixed garments, I would not want
to be them when they try to serve in the temple. Aaron's
sons found out what happened when they didn't follow
the directions they were given to the letter.

6 And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of
purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
You might be right. Ezekiel 44:17-18
 
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chunkofcoal

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When did the Torah command the Pharisees to do anything "ceremonially " or especially "publicly " before the people like the priests? Pilate washed his hands before the people when he refused to release Yeshua (Matthew 27:16). They do everything to be seen (Matthew 23:5), what you do for your parents should be done in secret like "circumcision on the 8th day". The law of circumcision is performed by your parents in a "private" place (Matthew 6:4, Romans 2:29).

"Ceremoniously" was your word, not mine.
Are you saying Pilate was also a Pharisee because he washed his hands before the people?
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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"Ceremoniously" was your word, not mine.
Are you saying Pilate was also a Pharisee because he washed his hands before the people?
Please reread my post I said "ceremonially", unlike the priests the Pharisees have no worship duties "before the people" or "publicly " according to Torah.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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"Ceremoniously" was your word, not mine.
Are you saying Pilate was also a Pharisee because he washed his hands before the people?
Pilate was just as righteous as those hypocrites, they all loved washing their hands publicly; before the people. Pilate and the Pharisees loved entertaining the people.
 
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AbbaLove

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Again, it is not a sin to mix wool and linen, as the high priest clothing is made by mixing together linen and wool. Just like it is not a sin for a donkey and ox to voluntarily walk together; it is a sin for an ox and donkey to be "yoked" together.
So, you're implying it's a sin for wool and linen to be "yoked" together. Does that also apply when making a linen and woolen tzitzit when the strains intermingle? Have you ever seen a donkey and an ox voluntarily walking together ;)
If the common people make a garment made of linen and wool woven together and give it to the high priest to wear, then they have not sinned.
What source are you referencing when you say the common people could make a garment of linen and wool woven together and give it to the High Priest to wear? Such precise craftsmanship required a person of uncommon skill that was authorized to make the priestly garments for the High Priest.
 
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chunkofcoal

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Pilate was just as righteous as those hypocrites, they all loved washing their hands publicly; before the people. Pilate and the Pharisees loved entertaining the people.

So what do you think about what the Scribes and Pharisees taught? Hypocrites or not, Yeshua told His disciples "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"
 
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So, you're implying it's a sin for wool and linen to be "yoked" together. Does that also apply when making a linen and woolen tzitzit when the strains intermingle? Have you ever seen a donkey and an ox voluntarily walking together ;)
What source are you referencing when you say the common people could make a garment of linen and wool woven together and give it to the High Priest to wear? Such precise craftsmanship required a person of uncommon skill that was authorized to make the priestly garments for the High Priest.
What I mean by common, not a priest, but I am using Ezekiel 44:17-18 referencing the priestly garments. Again, the sin is wearing the garment not the mixing the wool and linen. It is strange however the obscure permission to wear these garments is limited to the high priest; certain garment, few translations and one or maybe two verses. The prohibition is very clear. Their seems to be more evidence for the prohibition, the exemption is unclear.
 
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So what do you think about what the Scribes and Pharisees taught? Hypocrites or not, Yeshua told His disciples "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"
Yeshua also said practice what you preach; be ware of the "leaven" from the Pharisees. A little leaven affects the whole lump. Leaven causes holy bread to become "puffed up" or rise. Moses taught us how to eat "unleavened" bread. There is more evidence to support the idea of respecting or honoring the "seat of Moses" than listening to hypocrites. I respect and honor the Office of the President but that does not make me a Trump fan. I respect the Office of the President, but I obey Yeshua, Yeshua told me to honor those that sit in the seat of Moses. Do you think Trump sits in the seat of Moses?
 
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So what do you think about what the Scribes and Pharisees taught? Hypocrites or not, Yeshua told His disciples "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"
Every teacher knows that teaching is much more about what your students observe you do than what they hear you say. My students forget what I say but they remember what I do. It is very important for a good teacher to "model" good behavior (James 3:1).
 
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What!!!!!??
What does public handwashing prove when the Roman government continues to oppress the children of Israel and persecute their Messiah? Was Pilate hands clean, when he washed his hands without soap, released Barabbas?
 
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AbbaLove

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What does public handwashing prove when the Roman government continues to oppress the children of Israel and persecute their Messiah? Was Pilate hands clean, when he washed his hands without soap, released Barabbas?
How are you interpreting the following scriptures that clearly imply Pontius Pilate found no grounds for the death penalty of Yeshua. Also, there is the account of the Centurion's faith. Yeshua said He found no greater faith in Israel than that of this Roman Centurion's faith in Yeshua (Matthew 8:5-13).

Matthew 27:24
When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”
Mark 15:12-14
12 Pilate again said to them, “Then what should I do with the man you call the King of the Jews?”
13 They shouted back, “Put him to death on the stake!”
14 He asked, “Why? What crime has he committed?” But they only shouted louder, “Put him to death on the stake!”
Luke 23:20-25
20 Wanting to release Yeshua, Pilate appealed to them again.
21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
22 For the third time he spoke to them: “Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him.”
23 But they went on yelling insistently, demanding that he be executed on the stake; and their shouting prevailed.
24 Pilate decided to grant their demand;
25 he released the man who had been thrown in prison for insurrection and murder, the one they had asked for; and Yeshua he surrendered to their will.
 
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danny ski

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What does public handwashing prove when the Roman government continues to oppress the children of Israel and persecute their Messiah? Was Pilate hands clean, when he washed his hands without soap, released Barabbas?
OK, I'll bite.
Pilate and the Romans murdered thousands of Jews. There was not an ounce of righteousness in Pilate. He was dismissed from his position for excessive abuses and ruthlessness. To make ANY kind of comparison between the executioner and his innocent victims is just perverse. I don't care if he washed his hands with acid or the holy water, he still was responsible for every Jewish life he ended, including the Christian messiah. Jesus, like many Jews of his time, had dogmatic differences with other Jews- that's entirely consistent with the religious climate of the Roman occupied Judea. Yet, he failed to register those differences in our sources and all we got is a bastardized version of events, written decades later, without context and without the other side having a chance to respond. And what's the result? The Pharisees are reduced to a caricature and a whole section of our society dismissed as hypocrites. Not a loving "messiah" from my pov.
 
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