Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Copperhead said:

All sounds good. But you forgot the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. it is not for the decedents adhering or not adhering to faith in God that is the deciding factor in all of this, it is God's faithfulness to the promises He made to the patriarchs and confirmed them as long as sun shines, the moon gives forth light, the waves roar on the shore, etc. Jeremiah 31.

And Ezekiel says that they as a nation would be restored first in unbelief, without the Spirit of God in them. But He would then breath life into them. This is before the final cataclysmic days of the end times.

And Yeshua and Hosea stated clearly that national Israel must acknowledge their rejection of Yeshua and call for His return before He would. Obviously, many individual Hebrews have accepted Yeshua over the centuries. But Israel as a national entity has not. This is is the crux of the issue. HaSatan has used every means possible to exterminate the Hebrews from the earth so that there are none to petition the Lord's return.

Isaiah said that Israel would be gathered a second time. And a careful study of Ezekiel 4 and Leviticus 26 shows us when.

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Then God will have to repent for all of the disbelieving and disobedient decedents that He slew, because He must have neglected to take their DNA into account.

God's promises are exclusively to those of faith and obedience. He has no chosen people in unbelief, as keras has pointed out.

Isaiah and Paul confirm that only a believing remnant will be saved (Romans 9:27).

Under God's New Covenant, which is the only Covenant now in force and effect, all of the promises of God are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ, and He and those in Him are the heirs of all things. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16,29; Hebrews 1:1,2; Romans 8:17).

If all of the promises are yes and amen in Christ, and they are, it then follows that there are no promises for anyone who is not in Christ.

False and False and False
you guys just don't get it
Jewish Israel are following the scriptures of OT as they were/are waiting on their messiah who came as a lamb to be sacrificed and they did not recognize their messiah when he came and they have been spiritually blind just as you are but only for a different reason , They believe they are worshiping and living for God just as you believe you are .
The Almighty paved the way for them for many centuries , but since Jesus came the patience of God is wearing thin as time goes by , He wants the Jews to open their eyes . It is kinda like a child that is incorrigible and the parents love their child but since the child is incorrigible they have to take measures they don't want to take , you guys refuse to even try to see things through Gods eyes and only see things how you think things should be through your carnal way of thinking .

keras said:

Your determination to have an ethnic group of Israel, conflicts with all Bible teaching on this matter,
Israel is simply a word that describes the Overcomers for God, .

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seventysevens said:

False and False and False
you guys just don't get it
Jewish Israel are following the scriptures of OT as they were/are waiting on their messiah who came as a lamb to be sacrificed and they did not recognize their messiah when he came and they have been spiritually blind just as you are but only for a different reason , They believe they are worshiping and living for God just as you believe you are .
The Almighty paved the way for them for many centuries , but since Jesus came the patience of God is wearing thin as time goes by , He wants the Jews to open their eyes . It is kinda like a child that is incorrigible and the parents love their child but since the child is incorrigible they have to take measures they don't want to take , you guys refuse to even try to see things through Gods eyes and only see things how you think things should be through your carnal way of thinking .

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You've missed one operatively salient word.

Covenant.

How does God determine who enters into covenant relationship with Him?

He doesn't do it based on their genetic pedigree. Never has.

He does it based on their faith and obedience.

Faith and obedience are the only qualities His eyes look for.

Nothing else.

It's that simple.

keras said:

Israel is simply a word that describes the Overcomers for God, as the original man; Jacob was and his descendant Jesus is.

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No.... Israel is the name God called Jacob. Gen 32:28. And the promises were made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel).

And Isaiah said that Israel is God's Elect. Isaiah 45:4. Of course that isn't individuals in view, but as a distinct entity.

And Jeremiah said that unique entity would be a nation before Him as long as the sun shines, the moon gives light, and the waves roar. Jeremiah 31

Jeremiah 31:35-37 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day,
and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night,
which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar;
The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord,
then the seed of Israel also shall cease
from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord;
If heaven above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

And those that would try to claim that they have replaced Israel as an entity....

Revelation 2:9 (KJV) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

I know that some would say that it is those who claim to be the Hebrews in Israel are the imposters and the synagogue of Satan. But I don't see those as trying over the centuries to eliminate everyone else on the earth, wherever they have been dispersed, as I have seen in history both those inside and outside the Church worldwide trying to wipe Hebrews off the face of the earth wherever they were dispersed. So... since the world, sometimes at the instigation of the Church, has reached into the extreme depths of evil to eliminate those who are a small minority in the world and claim to be descended from those whom God established as the ones who were to give us the scriptures, the Messiah, etc, then more than likely they are in fact the true descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The words from Hamlet apply most apropos with just a slight change... "Satan, ye doth protest too much, me thinks."

So when history is factored into the equation, and I see how tenaciously those in modern Israel have preserved the scriptures, restored Hebrew as a living national language, and how the rest of the world is so apoplectic about Israel being a nation, I tend to see national Israel is the real Hebrew entity from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And even more so as I study Ezekiel, Isaiah, Hosea, Leviticus, and the rest of scripture.

This was said of a different situation, but it seems to be good advise regarding those against modern Israel today....

Acts 5:38-39 (TLV) So now I tell you, stay away from these men and leave them alone. For if this plan or undertaking is of men, it will come to an end; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to stop them. You might even be found fighting against God." They took his advice,

jgr said:

You've missed one operatively salient word.

Covenant.

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The fact is that the fullness of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31 will will happen after Jesus returns- when it is written on the hearts of men so they
When you choose to deny what God has said outright and replace it with something else it is only you that will face the Lord about - all these posts that put down and demean people because they have a different view is not love - it is nothing nothing more than pride run amuck and serves no good purpose as it is showing that you cant handle it when someone sees thing's differently

seventysevens said:

The fact is that the fullness of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31 will will happen after Jesus returns- when it is written on the hearts of men so they
When you choose to deny what God has said outright and replace it with something else it is only you that will face the Lord about - all these posts that put down and demean people because they have a different view is not love - it is nothing nothing more than pride run amuck and serves no good purpose as it is showing that you cant handle it when someone sees thing's differently

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God's covenant conditions were established at the very beginning. Reread Genesis 17:12 and tell us what "not of thy seed" means.

Those conditions have not changed from then to Jeremiah, and from Jeremiah to this moment.

They are faith and obedience, and nothing else.

You do have freewill to believe however you want
but it doesn't mean you have it right .
There is more than that to it but you choose to ignore it , as your preference is more important to you than the truth

jgr said:

God's covenant conditions were established at the very beginning. Reread Genesis 17:12 and tell us what "not of thy seed" means.

Those conditions have not changed from then to Jeremiah, and from Jeremiah to this moment.

They are faith and obedience, and nothing else.

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Copperhead said:

Revelation 2:9 (KJV) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

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Here's who John was referring to:

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Those claiming to be circumsized in heart, but who were not.

seventysevens said:

You do have freewill to believe however you want
but it doesn't mean you have it right .
There is more than that to it but you choose to ignore it , as your preference is more important to you than the truth

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I don't have the free will to change Scripture.

And Scripture says "not of thy seed".

What do you think it says?

jgr said:

Here's who John was referring to:

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Those claiming to be circumsized in heart, but who were not.

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Problem is, in Revelation, John wasn't referring to anyone. He was dictating the very words of Yeshua to the various churches. And he was speaking of a group, not individuals. So again, I would be real cautious in dissing modern Israel and those of them that claim to be Hebrews. This is a paraphrase, but The words still apply.... if it is of man, it will fail. If it is of God, be careful that one does not find that they are fighting against God.

And Paul wasn't referring to national Israel in Romans. He was speaking on an individual level. Big difference. And Paul also stated that God was not thru with Israel.

In light of a heavy duty amount of scripture to the contrary, it might not be wise to build the case you are on a few verses.

You have freewill to interpret the scripture however you so desire - which is what you are doing
The word of caution you just received is something you should heed to
But that is highly unlikely to happen based on observing your pattern

jgr said:

I don't have the free will to change Scripture.

And Scripture says "not of thy seed".

What do you think it says?

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Copperhead said:

All sounds good. But you forgot the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

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Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

.

Copperhead said:

Problem is, in Revelation, John wasn't referring to anyone. He was dictating the very words of Yeshua to the various churches. So again, I would be real cautious in dissing modern Israel and those of them that claim to be Hebrews. This is a paraphrase, but The words still apply.... if it is of man, it will fail. If it is of God, be careful that one does not find that they are fighting against God.

In light of a heavy duty amount of scripture to the contrary, it might not be wise to build the case you are on a few verses.

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The words of Yeshua in Revelation were dictated to John.
The words of Yeshua in Romans were dictated to Paul.
Both are inspired Scripture.

The illegitimacy of attempting to establish ethnicity over faith and obedience as covenant criteria is seen in Scripture from the very beginning of covenant history. God's covenant conditions have not changed to this moment, nor will they ever. The Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35).

Faith and obedience, and nothing else.

seventysevens said:

You have freewill to interpret the scripture however you so desire - which is what you are doing
The word of caution you just received is something you should heed to
But that is highly unlikely to happen based on observing your pattern

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You have the same free will that I have.

So what do you think "not of thy seed" is saying?

jgr said:

The words of Yeshua in Revelation were dictated to John.
The words of Yeshua in Romans were dictated to Paul.
Both are inspired Scripture.

The illegitimacy of attempting to establish ethnicity over faith and obedience as covenant criteria is seen in Scripture from the very beginning of covenant history. God's covenant conditions have not changed to this moment, nor will they ever. The Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35).

Faith and obedience, and nothing else.

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Guess you got hot to respond and didn't read the entire post. I made it clear that Paul was referring to individual Jews, and that he also stated that God is not thru with Israel.

Look, you will not sway me. Obviously you are entrenched in your position. And I am too old and seen too much in this life for anyone to be able to guilt me in my view on this. One thing I have found that is a characteristic of much of Christianity, they tend to ignore 2/3 of the Bible in building their theology on these issues. And the Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for checking out daily the scriptures to see if what Paul taught them was true. And all they had was the OT.

Oh well, the vast majority of the Church over the centuries has tended to discard one topic in their various systematic theology texts that actually takes up 5/6ths of the Bible. Israel as a distinct entity, separate from the Church, and with its own purpose and destiny. It wasn't until Arnold Fruchtenbaum developed Israelology as a distinct part of Systematic Theology had it ever been addressed by the Church.

Several times I have said this but you ignore it because you cannot refute it
God has a plan that he will fulfill regardless of what you believe
You show no understanding of why God made Israel to become a nation again

You show no understanding of why Israel is where Jesus will come back to when He returns

You show no understanding of why Jerusalem is the reborn nation of Israel capital city

You show no understanding of why God said that Jerusalem will be the burdesome stone

You show no understanding of why God said a time of Jacobs(Israel) time of trouble

You show no understanding of why Hebrew is now becoming the reborn nation of Israel primary language
All you ever focus on is what you think makes your case - your failing to understand these simple facts reveals you have not given much thought to the overall matter

jgr said:

You have the same free will that I have.

So what do you think "not of thy seed" is saying?

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seventysevens said:

You show no understanding of why God made Israel to become a nation again

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This is part of God's Plan.
The Jews are the visible entity of Israel, but they have in fact usurped the name of Israel, as Judah is only a part of all Israel.

seventysevens said:

You show no understanding of why Israel is where Jesus will come back to when He returns

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We understand why you must have an Israel on earth at the Return. So you can grip onto the fanciful dream of going to heaven and riding a white horse with Jesus. About as likely to happen as the Return of the Jedi!

seventysevens said:

You show no understanding of why God said that Jerusalem will be the burdesome stone

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Jerusalem has become the sought after place by the 3 religions; Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Soon, an attack there will trigger the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, that will commence the end times events.

seventysevens said:

You show no understanding of why God said a time of Jacobs(Israel) time of trouble

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As the Israel of God is far more that just the Jews, we will all experience the time of testing by fire, as prophesied. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

seventysevens said:

You show no understanding of why Hebrew is now becoming the reborn nation of Israel primary language

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It is amazing that a language has been revived. But the modern Hebrew differs from what the ancients spoke and Biblical Hebrew is practically incomprehensible to an Israeli.

seventysevens said:

All you ever focus on is what you think makes your case - your failing to understand these simple facts reveals you have not given much thought to the overall matter

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No much thought, you say?
How about a lifetime of thought and the last seven years of intensive study of the Prophetic Word?
Your opinions, Seventy sevens, do not conform to what the Bible actually does say and that rude statement about people you know nothing about, but who refute your beliefs, is unacceptable.

sorry dude you failed miserably as these things I posted are Holy Scripture taken from Gods word
All of these things are declarations From God that it is His Plan that these things will be
It is not my words - I just put them in a post
It is not me that must have Israel on earth at the
Return - IT IS GODS WORD THAT DECLARES IT
Jesus could land on any spot on earth but HE says that it will be Israel
you are so wrapped up in trying to overcome things that you don't want to be true that you have not paid any attention to what the HOLY BIBLE has to say about it

yours is an Epic Fail

keras said:

This is part of God's Plan.
The Jews are the visible entity of Israel, but they have in fact usurped the name of Israel, as Judah is only a part of all Israel.

We understand why you must have an Israel on earth at the Return. So you can grip onto the fanciful dream of going to heaven and riding a white horse with Jesus. About as likely to happen as the Return of the Jedi!

Jerusalem has become the sought after place by the 3 religions; Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Soon, an attack there will trigger the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, that will commence the end times events.

As the Israel of God is far more that just the Jews, we will all experience the time of testing by fire, as prophesied. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

It is amazing that a language has been revived. But the modern Hebrew differs from what the ancients spoke and Biblical Hebrew is practically incomprehensible to an Israeli.

No much thought, you say?
How about a lifetime of thought and the last seven years of intensive study of the Prophetic Word?
Your opinions, Seventy sevens, do not conform to what the Bible actually does say and that rude statement about people you know nothing about, but who refute your beliefs, is unacceptable.

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seventysevens said:

Several times I have said this but you ignore it because you cannot refute it
God has a plan that he will fulfill regardless of what you believe
You show no understanding of why God made Israel to become a nation again

You show no understanding of why Israel is where Jesus will come back to when He returns

You show no understanding of why Jerusalem is the reborn nation of Israel capital city

You show no understanding of why God said that Jerusalem will be the burdesome stone

You show no understanding of why God said a time of Jacobs(Israel) time of trouble

You show no understanding of why Hebrew is now becoming the reborn nation of Israel primary language
All you ever focus on is what you think makes your case - your failing to understand these simple facts reveals you have not given much thought to the overall matter

Click to expand...

Genesis 17:12 precedes all of that, and is therefore essential to understanding God's subsequent covenant decisions and actions moving through history. So we must first resolve how Genesis 17:12 "not of thy seed" determines those decisions and actions. Then we can examine subsequent topics, and confirm their relationship to, and consistency with, same.

So what does "not of thy seed" mean?

Several times I have said this but you ignore it because you cannot refute it
God has a plan that he will fulfill regardless of what you believe
You show no understanding of why God made Israel to become a nation again

You show no understanding of why Israel is where Jesus will come back to when He returns

You show no understanding of why Jerusalem is the reborn nation of Israel capital city

You show no understanding of why God said that Jerusalem will be the burdensome stone

You show no understanding of why God said a time of Jacobs(Israel) time of trouble

You show no understanding of why Hebrew is now becoming the reborn nation of Israel primary language
All you ever focus on is what you think makes your case - your failing to understand these simple facts reveals you have not given much thought to the overall matter

jgr said:

Genesis 17:12 precedes all of that, and is therefore essential to understanding God's subsequent covenant decisions and actions moving through history. So we must first resolve how Genesis 17:12 "not of thy seed" determines those decisions and actions. Then we can examine subsequent topics, and confirm their relationship to, and consistency with, same.

So what does "not of thy seed" mean?

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