Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

needhugs · Apr 19, 2018

i think also you might be talking of the video just before mine... and 9 months from the sign of the virgin is june, and the jubilee year ends in june i think... so ALL of this year is the 70th year of Israel, but for the pretrib rapture to be in this time frame, it's between now and june

oh shoot, this post is on the next page, so you have to go back to watch the Bibi video of yesterday

Choose Wisely · Apr 19, 2018

summer is near

phydaux · Apr 19, 2018

And we're fast approaching the 40th anniversary of the Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty, where Egypt formally recognized the nation Israel's right to exist.

"May you live in interesting times."

Copperhead · Apr 19, 2018

April 19th is the 70th year anniversary as reckoned by the Hebrew Calendar. May 14th by the Julien calendar.

needhugs · Apr 20, 2018

yes, that's ALMOST what i said.. it was the 18th, israel's birthday...

personally, i so badly want and need the rapture... i can't take it here anymore.

Choose Wisely · Apr 21, 2018

iamlamad said:
You can believe that if you wish: anyone can believe anything.

In fact, as you stated, God's wrath begins just as John wrote, at the great earthquake at the 6th seal. I believe the rapture of the church will be a moment before that earthquake. So what is the next event after the 6th seal? Of course the 7th seal - so in a way, we are in agreement: the 70th week does begin right after the rapture, but with the 7th seal officially started it, and the first trumpet as the first event.

It is a myth that the rapture is in Rev. 4:1 and the seals are a part of the 70th week. The first seal is the church taking the gospel to the world, clearly timed very shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven, as shown in chapter 5. The second, third, and 4th seals represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the church. He failed, for there is very few places on this earth where the Gospel has not been preached.

Finally, the 5th seal are the martyrs of the church age. They are told they must wait for the very last martyr of the church age. When will that be? Of course at the pretrib rapture of the church. Any later martyr will be a Day of the Lord or 70th week martyr.

The 1st seal rider on the white horse is not Jesus the Christ.

TribulationSigns · Apr 21, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
The 1st seal rider on the white horse is not Jesus the Christ.

Biblical precedence or at least biblical warrant is necessary. We can't just suurmise that because there are a lot of evil horses there, the white one is evil too. The truth of the symbolism is found only in comparing scripture with scripture. Comparing one image of rider with another image of rider. Not comparing the image of a rider with the image of a beast. We have to have consistency throughout. Let's start by comparing the two riders. Does this rider in Revelation chapter six compare favorably to the "figures" of Satan that God inspires in scripture? The answer is No. Do they compare with the "figure" God inspires as representing Christ? Thew answer is Yes. Let's compare.

Revelation 6:2

"And I saw, and behold a White Horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Revelation 19:11-12

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a White Horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

They compare favorably. In fact, almost identically right down to His coming for warfare, and the crown symbolizing He rules. The question is, why would anyone (based upon what is written in Revelation 6:2) think that this rider on the white horse is someone different from the rider on the white horse in Revelation nineteen? There certainly is nothing (at all) in Revelation 6:2 that would lead us to believe He is a different rider. So where would we get the idea? ..I submit that it comes from man's own reasoning and teachings, rather than what is actually written there.

First consideration. Satan's strength is NEVER symbolized by the color white. And the horses are the symbol of the rider's strength. When you mount an army (in those days) your strength was measured by your number of horsemen. Horsemen gave you the advantage of strength in war. And colors (like numbers) carry great spiritual significance. White 'unquestionably' symbolizes purity or righteousness. i.e., the great white throne, the white stone, the clean white robes given the elect, the white cloud that the son of man sat on, the hair white like wool, etc., etc. And here, the "White" horse is in that very same vein of symbols found in the rest of the book of Revelation.

Horse = Strength of battle
White = Righteousness
Horseman on white horse = He who comes in strength of Righteous for warfare.

= Christ!

Christ judges and makes war in righteousness. This color white is not "incidental" in revelation, it is in harmony with the symbolism in revelation. This is no small matter to be cast aside as insignificant (as some do). Because interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture, and that is "extremely" important. Why would God use white to symbolize the rider coming in righteousness in one book of Revelation, and then assign that color to Satan's horse? He's not coming in strength of righteousness. It makes no sense. Some say because he is a false prophet, but God doesn't need to assign the color white to a horse to show false prophecy. A White horse doesn't symbolize false prophecy, it symbolizes riding in truth, purity, cleanness, and righteousness. We have our two identifiers. The horseman symbolizing He comes in strength (Job 39:19; Isaiah 31:1; Psalm 33:17; Psalm 147:10) of warfare, and color of the horse being white to symbolize He comes in righteous warfare and judgment. Just as Revelation 19 also so clearly illustrates. And as all of Revelation postulates:

Revelation 16:7

"And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."

Christ comes in righteous judgments and the white horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes righteousness, just as Revelation nineteen does. They are synonymous with each other, the very same symbolism. It is inconsistent for us to say that the white Horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes Satan, and then claim the white horse in Revelation chapter nineteen does not. That it switches and now symbolizes Christ. Where is the logic for such an abrupt change? They are both white horses! If there is one thing I have learned in my study of the scriptures, it is that "inconsistency is the hallmark of error," and is almost always the vehicle of every wrong interpretation. ie., you can't have the Candlesticks in Revelation 2 symbolize the Church, and then turn around in Revelation chapter 11 and claim it now represents two physical men who will come and witness. This is not the way to rightly divide the word of truth. Consistency is paramount, and God declares that it is in "Righteousness" that this rider on the white horse goes forth to judge and make war. Again, total agreement and harmony with the horse (symbolizing strength of battle) being white.

In Revelation chapter 19 we see this rider has many crowns (illustrating He is King of Kings and rules over many nations). And in Revelation 6 When the seal is loosed we see this rider is given a kingdom (symbolized by the crown). Again, total agreement with Christ going forth in righteousness. Christ was crowned king of kings and Lord of lords by his meritorious work and suffering on the cross. He established His kingdom by that suffering and death. ..to this end was He born.

Hebrews 2:9

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Matthew 27:29

"And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!"

So mock as they would, the truth is, Jesus was crowned King of the Jews by this meritorious work on the cross. He was given a crown, He did "establish" this kingdom by this work. And so again, we have complete and total harmony with the figure being representative of Christ given a crown, and not Satan. Satan hardly rides forth on the vehicle of righteousness (white horse) that he goes forth "both" conquering (overcoming) and to conquer (overcome). This can only be Christ who rides thusly. He is this warrior crowned King and we are his army on white horses who are in battle in this spiritual warfare with Him.

Revelation 17:14

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Revelation 12:11

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

The symbolism of this warfare which Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer permeates all throughout scripture.

Notice also that He has a bow in Revelation chapter six. Many have postulated that this proves that this is not Christ, because Christ doesn't have a bow in revelation chapter nineteen. Someone also told me, "..See Christ has no sword in Revelation chapter 6, so that proves it's not Christ." But this is all a self-serving exegesis. Such interpretations are easily debunked. For example, Christ has hair which is white like wool in Revelation chapter one, but it isn't mentioned in Revelation nineteen. Does that mean that Christ in Revelation chapter one is not Christ in revelation nineteen? Of course not. That would be a nonsensical way of interpreting. True interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture in the light of the "Whole" Bible. Doing that is the only way to come to real truth. So let's do are the more noble Bereans and search the scriptures to see if these things are true. Where else do we see this horseman riding with this bow? Is it an image of Satan or Christ?

Psalms 7:11-13

"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his Bow, and made it ready.
He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors."

Here is the Lord pictured as with His bow and His arrows and coming in judgment (Revelation 6), and His whet sword (Revelation 19). These symbolisms in Revelation are not an untraditional teaching, it is a teaching as old as the scriptures themselves. Interpretations belong to God. When we see Christ riding in Revelation chapter six in righteousness with a bow, it "Should" send us right to the Psalms where we unambiguously see the very same spiritual pictures. ..and He who hath an ear, let him hear.

Psalms 45:3-7

" Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Who is this horseman with a bow, who rides a horse in righteousness? Is it Satan? No, it is Christ that has been anointed King, been given a crown, is riding prosperously with this bow in "Righteousness" to judge and make war. How much clearer can it get. Moreover, God confirms the fulfillment of this prophecy of Christ in Hebrews as He quotes this of Jesus.

Hebrews 1:8

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Taken directly from that Psalm. Clearly, the idea that the rider in Revelation 6:2 cannot be Christ because He has a bow is nonsensical, and because He has no sword is also shown to be untenable. Here in Psalms 45 we see this rider Christ has both sword and bow and goes forth riding prosperiously conquering and to conquer. And He has been given a crown.

Luke 1:32-33

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Indeed He is given a crown, and indeed He does go forth conquering and to conquer. In Revelation chapter six the crown given the rider in righteousness is no contradiction to Revelation nineteen. Satan may go forth and conquer, but Christ is the only one who goes forth Conquering and to Conquer. In other words, overcoming and to overcome! Prevailing and to Prevail! Satan doesn't qualify. satan may overcome temporarily, but not to overcome ultimately.

The white horse is the strength of Christ's warfare, whereupon he rides when he goes to conquer and subdue new converts and translate them into his kingdom. He comes in the strength of His majesty, truth, meekness, and righteousness, which are made known in the preaching of his gospel. He goes forth tearing down strongholds, that the gates of hell cannot stand against him. He frees the prisoners therein. A spiritual warfare where we are either an army with Christ, or an army against him.

Luke 11:21-23p

"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."

The gates of Hell shall not prevail against Christ, he shall break down those gates, free the prisoners, and build His Church. As this rider on the white horse, He goes forth conquering and to conquer, and thus, over the last 2000 years the Church has been built.

There is no mention anywhere of Satan going forth righteously riding on a white horse, conquering and to conquer.

TribulationSigns · Apr 21, 2018

Regarding the white horse of Revelation 6, who introduced it as Satan as an angel (messenger) of light? Was it God or you? Because I read in that verse of a horse, which is White, and his rider, which has a bow. Nothing more. So, the question is, where does this image of Satan being the rider come from? Certainly not from the actual text of that verse. Or of any verse that speaks of a white horse.

Of course, I will apologize if you can search the scriptures and produce anywhere where God shows Satan on a white horse with a bow going forth as a conquerer. Because I can certainly show in scripture Christ on a white horse with the bow going forth as a conquerer and to conquer.

That Satan comes as a messenger of light, no one denies. That's unadulterated scripture. But he does not come riding upon a White horse, which symbolizes righteousness, with this bow, conquering and to conquer. That's not insignificant. That would be confusion since only Christ and his army (not Satan and his) ride upon white horses in scripture. The reason for this is that it illustrates that they ride in the strength of righteousness. NOTE, not "looking like" they come in strength of righteousness "mind you," but actually the image of them coming in the strength of the righteousness of God. Actually riding white horses.

Revelation 19:14

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

These armies don't come "as if" they're riding upon white horses, or come "looking like" they have white horses, or come "masquerading as" with White horses, they actually come upon white horses. Just like Christ!

What shall we say then, that these white horses and this white linen symbolize they only looked like they were righteous, or it was something other than righteousness only in Revelation 6:2 simply because that fits our theology? No, the symbolism is consistent and obvious. Or it should be. It doesn't jump from one meaning to another as the chapters of Revelation roll by, God is consistent in His symbolism. That is precisely why we can come to the truth of interpretations. Because it's not a horse symbolizing strength in one chapter and a boat in another. That's what makes scripture consistent and able to be rightly understood. That's what makes a star a Messenger in verse 1 and also a Messenger in verse 12. That's what makes a Candlestick the Church in verse 2 and the Church in verse 11, or even chapter 11. That's what makes the red Dragon Satan in Revelation 12, and the Dragon in Revelation 20 the very same Satan. Precisely because we don't say it's Satan in one chapter and Christ in another.

It's just sound exegesis. Selah!

Choose Wisely · Apr 21, 2018

This is the crown the rider on the white horse receives....the stephanos crown.

After the pretribulation rapture, the world will go into chaos. That is how a world government is formed. The 1st seal, the rider on the white horse, is a false Christ.

Brian Mcnamee · May 12, 2018

mi

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Maybe it is just my spiritual eyes being blind to the message of Ps.83. I do not see it as something future. I am not saying it is not, just that I don't see it. I was just reading Ps.83 trying to discern the war that many people talk about. Maybe I should pray about it more and study it harder. The nations I see them speaking are the ones who come against Israel at Her birth in 1948. Check out the video below.

YouTube - The 1948 Israeli War of Independence

Hi I am pre trib but think too much is placed on psalm 83 as the psalm does not describe a war and the voice is the prayer of Asaph against the enemies of Israel. It is not as if this psalm was written with the voice of thus sayeth the LORD. This is a petition to the LORD.

Brian Mcnamee · May 12, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Regarding the white horse of Revelation 6, who introduced it as Satan as an angel (messenger) of light? Was it God or you? Because I read in that verse of a horse, which is White, and his rider, which has a bow. Nothing more. So, the question is, where does this image of Satan being the rider come from? Certainly not from the actual text of that verse. Or of any verse that speaks of a white horse.

Of course, I will apologize if you can search the scriptures and produce anywhere where God shows Satan on a white horse with a bow going forth as a conquerer. Because I can certainly show in scripture Christ on a white horse with the bow going forth as a conquerer and to conquer.

That Satan comes as a messenger of light, no one denies. That's unadulterated scripture. But he does not come riding upon a White horse, which symbolizes righteousness, with this bow, conquering and to conquer. That's not insignificant. That would be confusion since only Christ and his army (not Satan and his) ride upon white horses in scripture. The reason for this is that it illustrates that they ride in the strength of righteousness. NOTE, not "looking like" they come in strength of righteousness "mind you," but actually the image of them coming in the strength of the righteousness of God. Actually riding white horses.

Revelation 19:14

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

These armies don't come "as if" they're riding upon white horses, or come "looking like" they have white horses, or come "masquerading as" with White horses, they actually come upon white horses. Just like Christ!

What shall we say then, that these white horses and this white linen symbolize they only looked like they were righteous, or it was something other than righteousness only in Revelation 6:2 simply because that fits our theology? No, the symbolism is consistent and obvious. Or it should be. It doesn't jump from one meaning to another as the chapters of Revelation roll by, God is consistent in His symbolism. That is precisely why we can come to the truth of interpretations. Because it's not a horse symbolizing strength in one chapter and a boat in another. That's what makes scripture consistent and able to be rightly understood. That's what makes a star a Messenger in verse 1 and also a Messenger in verse 12. That's what makes a Candlestick the Church in verse 2 and the Church in verse 11, or even chapter 11. That's what makes the red Dragon Satan in Revelation 12, and the Dragon in Revelation 20 the very same Satan. Precisely because we don't say it's Satan in one chapter and Christ in another.

It's just sound exegesis. Selah!

Hi I this is a pretrib room only so I wonder why you are posting in here. I saw the other safe rooms for beliefs that differ from my own and understood by definition that I should be respectful and bring debate to the open forum. Anyways as far as dismissing the rider on the white horse as antichrist because Jesus shows up on a white horse later is not proof just your speculation. The idea of antichrist is that an imposter Christ is coming. If you follow your line of logic Jesus comes and destroys his enemies suddenly and decisively with the sword of his mouth. He is not an arrowless bowman. The fact that this is the 1st seal when the rider on the white horse shows up is more likely Daniel speaking of the prince to come who shall confirm a covenant with the many for a week. If you look at the events that follow his arrival we see a lot of death and suffering and get to the middle of the week when I suggest this same person survives a mortal wound. At this point it says that the beast is given authority over every tribe tongue kindred and nation for 42 months. The 1st seal he is out to conquer and by the middle he has conquered. Daniel 8 speaks of how this one rises to power and it appears to be without and army.
“And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 “And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.”

Brian Mcnamee · May 13, 2018

Sojourner1 said:
Members who chose to participate in this safe house should believe in the pretribulation rapture. This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from a pretrib point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.

This safe house thread is for those members who believe in the pretribulation rapture.

The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."

If a topic turns into a debate then staff will split the debate off into a new thread.

Members who do not believe in the pretribulation rapture may post in fellowship only.

No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Eschatology forum.

Hi I am posting a couple of links to guys who do a good job with prophecy updates and have been putting them up for a decade. John Haller and JD Farag anyone not familiar with these will be stoked to find these resources. Farag also gives a solid gospel invitation every week and is a good resource for your unsaved friends.

JD posted a mid week update this week as he usually comes out with one Sun afternoon. This week he did not put in a gospel message as he usually does.

here is the John Haller update from last week

Another good resource for end times news who is not pretrib is Jacob Prasch. you can google him too.

jamesbond007 · Jun 3, 2018

It is difficult to be a Christian and remain true to the Bible. It is difficult to discern truth from lies. It does come down to worldview and keeping the faith. The lies of Satan have confused all and presented obstacles.

The Tribulation is not what I struggle with now, and I'm not sure how to resolve these opposing views. These opposing views isn't what I thought about much before, but since joining CF I have. Forgive me if this is the wrong place to present this, but didn't know where.

I don't think there is any question that Hades and Gehenna are different places. Where it gets difficult is the different sections and levels of hell (gehenna). I think the punishment should fit the crime, so there are different levels of hell.

If we are pre-tribulationists, then which side do you believe in?

Catholics

Christians

jamesbond007 · Jun 3, 2018

For pre-tribulation, I offer:
Yes, Christians Can Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

And a movie (which I haven't seen yet, but plan to see):
No, Christians Should Not Believe in 'Left Behind's' Rapture Theology, Says Prominent Christian Philosopher

cattat · Jul 7, 2018

Sojourner1 said:
Members who chose to participate in this safe house should believe in the pretribulation rapture. This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from a pretrib point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.

This safe house thread is for those members who believe in the pretribulation rapture.

The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."

If a topic turns into a debate then staff will split the debate off into a new thread.

Members who do not believe in the pretribulation rapture may post in fellowship only.

No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Eschatology forum.

cattat · Jul 7, 2018

Ok, this is interesting, My Great Grandfather had 10K head of the best sheep in the Intermountain area. (Utah) many years ago. Jumped on as I saw your thread. New today on this site. Hardly know how to use it. Great looking sheep. Pre-trib hopeful. I have seen some great discussions on it. Perry Stone is one of them. I do believe that we must be in a covenant relationship with our Savior and our Father, the Spirit too, or the Lord will say, I never knew you. I think we all have to fight in this fallen world to be like Christ so that he finds us worthy. I don't think everyone who purports to believe in the Messiah will be saved out of what is to come. We aren't appointed to the wrath of God but that comes much later than the rule of the evil one. That wrath, we may not be saved from. Thus all the scriptures where Jesus says to endure to the end. Thoughts? Nice sheep, where are they? Catherine

Choose Wisely · Jul 9, 2018

cattat said:
Ok, this is interesting, My Great Grandfather had 10K head of the best sheep in the Intermountain area. (Utah) many years ago. Jumped on as I saw your thread. New today on this site. Hardly know how to use it. Great looking sheep. Pre-trib hopeful. I have seen some great discussions on it. Perry Stone is one of them. I do believe that we must be in a covenant relationship with our Savior and our Father, the Spirit too, or the Lord will say, I never knew you. I think we all have to fight in this fallen world to be like Christ so that he finds us worthy. I don't think everyone who purports to believe in the Messiah will be saved out of what is to come. We aren't appointed to the wrath of God but that comes much later than the rule of the evil one. That wrath, we may not be saved from. Thus all the scriptures where Jesus says to endure to the end. Thoughts? Nice sheep, where are they? Catherine

Thoughts???????? We are told there are some that will escape all these things that will come to pass

TribulationSigns · Jul 9, 2018

The Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man
(An Exposition of Luke 16:19-31)

Copperhead · Jul 9, 2018

cattat said:
Thus all the scriptures where Jesus says to endure to the end. Thoughts?

The key thing to also ask is... what end? End of each individual's life? End of the current age? End of the tribulation period? End of the Millennial Kingdom?

One can endure up till the removal of the righteous and that would be the end of the present age as per the pre-trib position.

It really comes down to... what is the purpose of the tribulation period? From what I see of it, it's main focus is to drive Israel to acknowledge the Messiah and to drive the other folks of the earth either deeper into their calamity, aka "hardening their hearts", or turning to the Lord. If believers have already turned to the Lord, which is the primary condition of being a believer, then what is the purpose in having them go thru a period that is not meant for them? Why would a God who has put so much on the line to save people, His Son, then want to put them into a position where they might turn away?

And who is behind tribulations now as opposed the Great Tribulation? Some fail to see the difference. Tribulations now are Satan directed. It is expected that believers would experience some level of Satan inspired tribulation. The specific Tribulation period (from the 1st seal onward) is God directed. So why would God want to subject those that His Son paid the ultimate price for to severe trials that could cause them to falter in their faith? And if that is the reason for the tribulation period, then how does the idea that the HS seals the believer unto the day of redemption come into play? Is the HS incapable of upholding His end of the deal or was the scripture regarding that just a misprint?

And what better way to get everyone's attention than to have a significant portion of the population removed right in front of everyone's eyes!

I can understand that the idea of a pre-trib removal of the righteous could sound goofy to some. But then, the idea that a being who created the entire physical realm would concern Himself with a bunch of renegade fools who are part of the creation enough to sacrifice His Son to rescue them from themselves sounds a little far fetched also, but it is reality. As has been stated about Quantum Physics.... it is the most preposterous thing one can imagine, but it is unquestionably true.

The idea of a pre-trib removal of the righteous must not be all that out of whack, given that New Age channelers, UFO devotees, etc have all written extensively about how a portion of the earth population would be removed before the major earth changes could occur. They even explain that all the children must be removed. I particularly find that one interesting. Folks have wondered if children below any age of accountability would be spared going thru the Tribulation period, and we have these New Age types explaining away a removal of all the children. The motivation for these guys to write about such things is to be able to explain the removal away, that it was not a "rapture" but that UFO entities had a hand in removing people from the earth to "cleanse" the earth of the dark forces that are hindering mankind moving into a higher level of consciousness and welcome the "light bearers".

That all would seem to suggest that Satan believes there will be a pre-trib removal to put so much effort into explaining it away. And Satan knows scripture as well as anyone else.... and better than many.

Red Sky at Morning · Jul 10, 2018

Copperhead said:
The key thing to also ask is... what end? End of each individual's life? End of the current age? End of the tribulation period? End of the Millennial Kingdom?

One can endure up till the removal of the righteous and that would be the end of the present age as per the pre-trib position.

It really comes down to... what is the purpose of the tribulation period? From what I see of it, it's main focus is to drive Israel to acknowledge the Messiah and to drive the other folks of the earth either deeper into their calamity, aka "hardening their hearts", or turning to the Lord. If believers have already turned to the Lord, which is the primary condition of being a believer, then what is the purpose in having them go thru a period that is not meant for them? Why would a God who has put so much on the line to save people, His Son, then want to put them into a position where they might turn away?

And who is behind tribulations now as opposed the Great Tribulation? Some fail to see the difference. Tribulations now are Satan directed. It is expected that believers would experience some level of Satan inspired tribulation. The specific Tribulation period (from the 1st seal onward) is God directed. So why would God want to subject those that His Son paid the ultimate price for to severe trials that could cause them to falter in their faith? And if that is the reason for the tribulation period, then how does the idea that the HS seals the believer unto the day of redemption come into play? Is the HS incapable of upholding His end of the deal or was the scripture regarding that just a misprint?

And what better way to get everyone's attention than to have a significant portion of the population removed right in front of everyone's eyes!

I can understand that the idea of a pre-trib removal of the righteous could sound goofy to some. But then, the idea that a being who created the entire physical realm would concern Himself with a bunch of renegade fools who are part of the creation enough to sacrifice His Son to rescue them from themselves sounds a little far fetched also, but it is reality. As has been stated about Quantum Physics.... it is the most preposterous thing one can imagine, but it is unquestionably true.

The idea of a pre-trib removal of the righteous must not be all that out of whack, given that New Age channelers, UFO devotees, etc have all written extensively about how a portion of the earth population would be removed before the major earth changes could occur. They even explain that all the children must be removed. I particularly find that one interesting. Folks have wondered if children below any age of accountability would be spared going thru the Tribulation period, and we have these New Age types explaining away a removal of all the children. The motivation for these guys to write about such things is to be able to explain the removal away, that it was not a "rapture" but that UFO entities had a hand in removing people from the earth to "cleanse" the earth of the dark forces that are hindering mankind moving into a higher level of consciousness and welcome the "light bearers".

That all would seem to suggest that Satan believes there will be a pre-trib removal to put so much effort into explaining it away. And Satan knows scripture as well as anyone else.... and better than many.

Very clearly put - thanks!

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