[Staff edit].
The thing is, anyone who thinks they have it all figured out is living in a fantasy land. And the greatest obstacle to finding the actual truth, is those who think they already have it.
While I can appreciate what other feel the HS has guided them on regarding such issues, I prefer to always fall back on the written word itself for verification. Kind of a "trust but verify" thing.
As far as removals / raptures go, there are actually several. The first one was definitely pre-trib.... by about 2000 years. The righteous who were resurrected just after Yeshua's resurrection and were taken to the Father. Stacks of early Christian writers that had direct contact with the Apostles or disciples of them confirm that Matt 27:52-53 was not a later added in passage as some of the modern textual critics would have us believe, and it was the first removal of the saints to occur. Those early writers confirm that it was a total resurrection of the saints that were held in Abraham's bosom until the resurrection of the Messiah. They then were resurrected and taken to the Father. That was after Yeshua's resurrection and pre-trib if there ever was a pre-trib rapture.
Follows the pattern of the harvest as laid out in Leviticus 23. And Yeshua was fond of pointing us to the harvest many times in His discourses.
I do believe that Faith is important. But unlike your assertion, I don't think that Christianity is a works religion that one has to prove their worthiness by going thru horrific trials to prove how much faith they have. That is what makes up the man made religions. Maybe you just worded your comments wrong, but just a superficial reading of that comment suggests that. I might have read it wrong, and if so, I apologize.
Sure, there are rewards for faithful service, but the salvation is already paid for those who trust in Yeshua. So what does it benefit the Lord to dump on them by making them go thru the GT? That period of time is when the Lord brings forth His punishment upon the Messiah rejecting world. Those that already have placed their trust in Yeshua, why would the God who justified them thru the death of His Son then pour out His punishment on them?
Isaiah seems to concur....
Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
John 14:2-3 (ISV) There are many rooms in my Father’s house. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I am going away to prepare a place for you, I will come back again and welcome you into my presence, so that you may be where I am.
Notice.. we go back to with Him to live in His presence. He is not setting up shop on the earth yet. He is hiding us from the punishment of the Father that will be going on the earth, as per Isaiah.
King David, Jeremiah, and others seem to support this.
Psalms 27:5 (KJV) For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion:
in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me;
he shall set me up upon a rock.
The thing is, anyone who thinks they have it all figured out is living in a fantasy land. And the greatest obstacle to finding the actual truth, is those who think they already have it.
While I can appreciate what other feel the HS has guided them on regarding such issues, I prefer to always fall back on the written word itself for verification. Kind of a "trust but verify" thing.
As far as removals / raptures go, there are actually several. The first one was definitely pre-trib.... by about 2000 years. The righteous who were resurrected just after Yeshua's resurrection and were taken to the Father. Stacks of early Christian writers that had direct contact with the Apostles or disciples of them confirm that Matt 27:52-53 was not a later added in passage as some of the modern textual critics would have us believe, and it was the first removal of the saints to occur. Those early writers confirm that it was a total resurrection of the saints that were held in Abraham's bosom until the resurrection of the Messiah. They then were resurrected and taken to the Father. That was after Yeshua's resurrection and pre-trib if there ever was a pre-trib rapture.
Follows the pattern of the harvest as laid out in Leviticus 23. And Yeshua was fond of pointing us to the harvest many times in His discourses.
I do believe that Faith is important. But unlike your assertion, I don't think that Christianity is a works religion that one has to prove their worthiness by going thru horrific trials to prove how much faith they have. That is what makes up the man made religions. Maybe you just worded your comments wrong, but just a superficial reading of that comment suggests that. I might have read it wrong, and if so, I apologize.
Sure, there are rewards for faithful service, but the salvation is already paid for those who trust in Yeshua. So what does it benefit the Lord to dump on them by making them go thru the GT? That period of time is when the Lord brings forth His punishment upon the Messiah rejecting world. Those that already have placed their trust in Yeshua, why would the God who justified them thru the death of His Son then pour out His punishment on them?
Isaiah seems to concur....
Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
John 14:2-3 (ISV) There are many rooms in my Father’s house. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I am going away to prepare a place for you, I will come back again and welcome you into my presence, so that you may be where I am.
Notice.. we go back to with Him to live in His presence. He is not setting up shop on the earth yet. He is hiding us from the punishment of the Father that will be going on the earth, as per Isaiah.
King David, Jeremiah, and others seem to support this.
Psalms 27:5 (KJV) For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion:
in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me;
he shall set me up upon a rock.
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