SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

Grip Docility said:

Choice... isn’t a death knell

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Very true, man has the faculty of freedom and rationality. Without these, he would only be a brute beast.

Grip Docility said:

Look up “Day of Atonement”

Surely you know Jesus being the lamb and the actual days things occurred on leading up to the crucifixion were in direct lock step with... Jewish Atonement ritual?

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Actually things were not in direct lock step with the Jewish atonement ritual.

The guilty person himself brought the animal for the atonement (Leviticus 5:5,6)
The priest removed the fat of the sacrifice and it was burnt upon the altar (Leviticus 4:35)
The blood of the sacrifice was sprinkled around the altar (Leviticus 1:3-5)
A sacrifice was never, ever hung on a tree for atonement.
Any atonement sacrifice had to be done according to the laws God prescribed.
Never was a Roman gentile to perform the ritual (making it a profane ritual).
Never was the animal beaten and bloodied before the sacrifice.

As you see, very little was done according the atonement ritual. Do you think God would accept the atonement ritual if it wasn't done according to His word?

So basically you are saying you have an atonement through profane rituals. You have your sins forgiven through ungodly methods.

The Roman sacrifice was marked by contempt and irreverence for what is sacred. It was nonreligious in subject matter and vulgar. It was an improper, unworthy, and degrading to the prescribed atonement ritual.

BNR32FAN said:

Actually the Bible does say people can be blotted out.

“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭69:28‬

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This verse is in reference to physical death. So, to be "blotted out" of the "book of the living" means to no longer be living in the physical sense.

Those who disagree must prove from exegesis, and not just personal opinion, that this verse refers to loss of salvation.

Jesus never said someone cannot be blotted out. He said

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬

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I never said Jesus never said someone cannot be blotted out. I did point out what He said in that verse. And I shared what this literary technique is called, which is a litotes, and I even gave the definition of it.

To take this literary technique and force it to mean some hopeful literal possibility that Jesus WILL remove salvation from some people is simply foolish.

If that were true, then what Jesus said in John 10:28a cannot be true. So, if Rev 3:5 is truth, then John 10:28a cannot be true.

Is that how you study the Bible? Pick and choose which verse you'd prefer and jettison any verse that is in conflict?

Or take what is crystal clear and realize that the other verse isn't meaning what you want it to mean?

This is what it means to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" in 2 Tim 2:15.

BNR32FAN said:

I don’t know why your Bible is different than mine but according to my KJV Acts 16:31 says...

“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16:31‬

So again Acts 16:31 does not say “believing in Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, who died for all your sins, and gives eternal life to those who believe His promise is the ONLY REQUIREMENT for salvation.”

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Do you NOT consider the WHOLE COUNCIL of God when reading the Bible? Or do you just stick with ONE verse to inform you of what it means?

I gave you what IS to be believed, since you keep indicating that "believing in Jesus" can merely mean to believe that the humanity of Jesus existed in the First Century.

That is NOT saving faith. So I included what John wrote in John 20:31 to show what IS saving faith.

To be saved, one MUST believe that Jesus IS the Son of God, which means He is also Deity, not just humanity, and that by believing, one HAS eternal life.

I also included what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:3, that of "first importance" in what he preached was that "Christ died for our sins".

That's what is meant by "rightly dividing the Word of Truth".

You had to add to it to try to justify your original statement because my “what if” question blew holes in your beliefs. Still in denial a see.

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lol Your "what if..." question only blows smoke. How can any impossible "iffy" question do anything to what I believe? Nothing is what.

From your posts, it seems you do not agree with what the Bible defines as saving faith.

Sad.

BNR32FAN said:

Then why would someone’s name be blotted out of the book of life?

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First please prove that the Bibles that anyone can.

FreeGrace2 said:

This verse is in reference to physical death. So, to be "blotted out" of the "book of the living" means to no longer be living in the physical sense.

Those who disagree must prove from exegesis, and not just personal opinion, that this verse refers to loss of salvation.


I never said Jesus never said someone cannot be blotted out. I did point out what He said in that verse. And I shared what this literary technique is called, which is a litotes, and I even gave the definition of it.

To take this literary technique and force it to mean some hopeful literal possibility that Jesus WILL remove salvation from some people is simply foolish.

If that were true, then what Jesus said in John 10:28a cannot be true. So, if Rev 3:5 is truth, then John 10:28a cannot be true.

Is that how you study the Bible? Pick and choose which verse you'd prefer and jettison any verse that is in conflict?

Or take what is crystal clear and realize that the other verse isn't meaning what you want it to mean?

This is what it means to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" in 2 Tim 2:15.

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“And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:15‬ ‭

No friend being thrown into the lake of fire is not a physical death.

BNR32FAN said:

“And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:15‬ ‭

No friend being thrown into the lake of fire is not a physical death.

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Sure. Not in this verse. Of course not. The context is quite clear. But the "book of the living" which you previously cited is another matter, which I explained.

FreeGrace2 said:

Do you NOT consider the WHOLE COUNCIL of God when reading the Bible? Or do you just stick with ONE verse to inform you of what it means?

I gave you what IS to be believed, since you keep indicating that "believing in Jesus" can merely mean to believe that the humanity of Jesus existed in the First Century.

That is NOT saving faith. So I included what John wrote in John 20:31 to show what IS saving faith.

To be saved, one MUST believe that Jesus IS the Son of God, which means He is also Deity, not just humanity, and that by believing, one HAS eternal life.

I also included what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:3, that of "first importance" in what he preached was that "Christ died for our sins".

That's what is meant by "rightly dividing the Word of Truth".


lol Your "what if..." question only blows smoke. How can any impossible "iffy" question do anything to what I believe? Nothing is what.

From your posts, it seems you do not agree with what the Bible defines as saving faith.

Sad.

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You make up so many excuses to cover up your mistakes. I quoted what you said several times about Acts 16:31 and I said there is more to salvation than simply believing and also quoted you saying no there’s not. Now you still try to make me the one to be wrong. You do know that is deceptive don’t you?

Gr8Grace said:

Just look at the list. The works of the flesh are sin and EVIL (YOUR 'good' works)and will inhibit us from INHERITING the Kingdom.

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This is so sad, that you are so confused about what is so plainly taught in the scriptures.

The works of the flesh are listed for us.

In contrast, walking according to the Spirit, is also listed.

You are trying to teach people that walking according to the Spirit, is really the works of the flesh.

Obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit, produces the fruit of HOLINESS, which is called “practicing righteousness”, or
“Being led by the Spirit”.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

• Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: ...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works of the flesh are sin, the sin within the flesh that desires to express its lustful cravings.


the works of the flesh are evident, which are:


adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like;

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


WAKE UP!


JLB

I said this:
"Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.""

EmSw said:

John 2:11
This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.

Well, well, well, according to Acts 16:31, Judas was saved.

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OK, mr scholar. Now prove that John 2:11 included all 12 disciples.

In John 1:35 ff we have the narrative of Jesus calling His "first disciples", which included 2 of John the baptist's disciples, Andrew and Peter, and Philip, Nathaniel.

So, when we get to John 2:11, we only know of 5 disciples. And John doesn't mention when any of the other 7 were chosen.

From Matt 4:18-22, we have an account of Jesus choosing Peter, Andrew, James and John.

In Mark 1:16-20 we have a parallel account with Matt 4:18-20.

In Luke 5 Jesus called 4 fishermen to follow Him, none of which were Judas.

So, your challenge is to show that by the first miracle in Cana, Jesus had already chosen Judas as a disciple.

By John 6:70 we know that He had chosen the 12, including Judas. But you need to prove from Scripture that Judas was chosen prior to 2:11.

For EmSw:

I've many times equated your theology with that of the Pharisees. And never once have you denied it or explained how it isn't just like the Pharisees.

When my theology is mischaracterized, or mistated, I ALWAYS correct the poster, just as I did recently with BNR32FAN, who called me a universalist. I not only denied it, but proved it by quoting a verse that shows that people will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.

The FACT that you've never even tried to defend your theology against my charge makes me think that you, in fact, agree with my assessment. What else can I conclude?

Regardless of your low opinion of Paul, he was not only a Pharisee, but one in high standing. He said this in Gal 1:14 - I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

So much so, the leadership gave him authority to persecute the church:
13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.

So, what changed for Paul?
15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased
16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

He met the Lord Jesus, and the result was to "preach Him".

Note that he quit preaching what the Pharisees believed and started to preach Jesus.

You think Jesus preached the Law, which was the "bread and butter" of the Pharisees, but how wrong you are.

As Grip Docility has already told you, "John 5:39-40 remains your downfall".
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

BNR32FAN said:

You make up so many excuses to cover up your mistakes. I quoted what you said several times about Acts 16:31 and I said there is more to salvation than simply believing and also quoted you saying no there’s not. Now you still try to make me the one to be wrong. You do know that is deceptive don’t you?

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It seems you've failed to understand anything I've said. There are no excuses. I have explained my position clearly and thoroughly.

I'm sorry that my posts aren't getting through.

JLB777 said:

You are trying to teach people that walking according to the Spirit, is really the works of the flesh.

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Naw.

I am trying to show you that we have an arrogant/prideful side to our flesh along with a sinful side.

Many are counterfeiting walking according to the Spirit in their arrogant/prideful side of their flesh.

Which is evil. It won't save ONE person.

Matt 23:25~~New American Standard Bible
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

2 Cor 11:15~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

FreeGrace2 said:

Do you NOT consider the WHOLE COUNCIL of God when reading the Bible? Or do you just stick with ONE verse to inform you of what it means?

I gave you what IS to be believed, since you keep indicating that "believing in Jesus" can merely mean to believe that the humanity of Jesus existed in the First Century.

That is NOT saving faith. So I included what John wrote in John 20:31 to show what IS saving faith.

To be saved, one MUST believe that Jesus IS the Son of God, which means He is also Deity, not just humanity, and that by believing, one HAS eternal life.

I also included what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:3, that of "first importance" in what he preached was that "Christ died for our sins".

That's what is meant by "rightly dividing the Word of Truth".


lol Your "what if..." question only blows smoke. How can any impossible "iffy" question do anything to what I believe? Nothing is what.

From your posts, it seems you do not agree with what the Bible defines as saving faith.

Sad.

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You say I don’t consider the whole council when I read the Bible yet I believe that works and repentance are necessary for salvation. You my friend are the one who doesn’t consider the whole council of the scriptures. My beliefs coincide with the scriptures and the early church writings. Not very different from the Orthodox teachings. You refute these teachings that were handed down from the apostles in the early church. When I say early church I’m referring to before the schism in 1054.

Gr8Grace said:

Naw.

I am trying to show you that we have an arrogant/prideful side to our flesh along with a sinful side.

Many are counterfeiting walking according to the Spirit in their arrogant/prideful side of their flesh.

Which is evil. It won't save ONE person.

Matt 23:25~~New American Standard Bible
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

2 Cor 11:15~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

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Here are the works of the flesh, which you have ignored.

Born again, Spirit filled Christians, who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works of the flesh are sin, the sin within the flesh that desires to express its lustful cravings.


the works of the flesh are evident, which are:


adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like;

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Born again, Spirit filled Christians, have a choice to either walk according to the flesh, or walk according to the Spirit.

The context of Romans 8 is about Christians who either walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit.


There is therefore now nocondemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walkaccording to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Here are the two choices for those who are in Christ Jesus to live:

• according to the flesh
• according to the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

• Paul is exhorting brethren, those who are in Christ Jesus, not to live according to the flesh.

Here’s why -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

Which is why a brother in Christ, someone who is in Christ Jesus, can indeed become lost.

Paul explains what the works of the flesh are to us, so you want beconfused.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you intime past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul writing to the Church in Galatia, teaches these brothers in Christ Jesus the remedy for practicing the works ofthe flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.Galatians 5:16


Again

8 For he who sows to his flesh will ofthe flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians


But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be namedamong you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in thekingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, forbecause of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons ofdisobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7

• because of these things thewrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Paul plainly warns these in the Church in Ephesus, who are in Christ Jesus, not to be partakers of the wrath of God, alone with the unbelievers, by living the way they do, according to the flesh, obeying it’s unrighteous desires.


But in accordance with your hardnessand your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to hisdeeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obeyunrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8


The Day of Judgement -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek forglory, honor, and immortality;

but to those who are self-seeking anddo not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

The same wrath he warned of, we could indeed be partakers of in Ephesians, along with the sons of disobedience, if we walk according to the flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.



JLB

BNR32FAN said:

Actually not everyone who is born is written in the book of life.‭

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Yes they were.

BNR32FAN said:

“And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the world was made.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭

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In eternity past, before anyone was ever born, everybody was in the book of life.

Through out time, and while people are being born and dying. There are no longer some people written in the book of life......they never trusted in Christ.

In eternity future, when mankind is no longer being born and dying, the book of life is FINISHED(Belongs to the Lamb[denotes His humanity and what he did for humanity])

In His Finished book of life there are definitely unbelievers who are not written in it.

Gr8Grace said:

Yes they were.



In eternity past, before anyone was ever born, everybody was in the book of life.

Through out time, and while people are being born and dying. There are no longer some people written in the book of life......they never trusted in Christ.

In eternity future, when mankind is no longer being born and dying, the book of life is FINISHED(Belongs to the Lamb[denotes His humanity and what he did for humanity])

In His Finished book of life there are definitely unbelievers who are not written in it.

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“And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the world was made.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬

Gr8Grace said:

Yes they were.



In eternity past, before anyone was ever born, everybody was in the book of life.

Through out time, and while people are being born and dying. There are no longer some people written in the book of life......they never trusted in Christ.

In eternity future, when mankind is no longer being born and dying, the book of life is FINISHED(Belongs to the Lamb[denotes His humanity and what he did for humanity])

In His Finished book of life there are definitely unbelievers who are not written in it.

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Revelation 13:8 says those people’s name were not written in the book of life. They were never in there. Your name is written in the book of life when you have faith in Jesus. Names are not erased they are blotted out. Nowhere does the Bible say names are erased from the book of life.

JLB777 said:

Here are the works of the flesh, which you have ignored.

Born again, Spirit filled Christians, who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The works of the flesh are sin, the sin within the flesh that desires to express its lustful cravings.


the works of the flesh are evident, which are:


adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like;

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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In all reality, It erks you that I Don't ignore the works of the flesh.

Adultery~~Cheating on our spouse...sin. Cheating on our husband(the Lord Jesus Christ) with the 'good' side of our flesh with our own deeds....evil.

Hatred~~Hating because we don't like someone...sin. trying to convince a born-again believer that they will go to the eternal lake of fire because they don't quite make OUR cut...evil

Heresies~~That trusting in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ is not enough for salvation....evil/blasphemous/another Gospel. Loss of salvation based upon behavior/works/deeds/lifestyle....evil

Murder~~killing someone...sin. giving it our best effort to send a born-again believer to the LoF forever based upon our own SUBJECTIVE reasoning and curve...evil

Drunkenness~~ drinking to much IPA(YUM)....sin. not soberly dividing His word....evil.

I said this:
"Do you NOT consider the WHOLE COUNCIL of God when reading the Bible? Or do you just stick with ONE verse to inform you of what it means?

I gave you what IS to be believed, since you keep indicating that "believing in Jesus" can merely mean to believe that the humanity of Jesus existed in the First Century."

BNR32FAN said:

You say I don’t consider the whole council when I read the Bible yet I believe that works and repentance are necessary for salvation.

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Please read my posts with more care. I never said what you "don't consider". I ASKED you whether you don't consider the WHOLE COUNCIL of God. Well, do you?

You my friend are the one who doesn’t consider the whole council of the scriptures.

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I believe I've shown the opposite. I gave verses to support my view. Go ahead and unpack my response and we'll see why you seem to miss what all the Bible says about what saving faith really is.

My beliefs coincide with the scriptures and the early church writings.

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Again, I've shown otherwise. You have indicated that the "devils believe" yet are unsaved. This demonstrates that you don't really know what saving faith is, or what must be believed in order to be saved.

Not very different from the Orthodox teachings. You refute these teachings that were handed down from the apostles in the early church. When I say early church I’m referring to before the schism in 1054.

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I give verses that support my statements and claims. But go ahead and try to unpack them and we'll see who is right.