Matthew 24: What shall be the sign of your coming (presence)?

orbiter · Apr 14, 2018

Peace.

The Son of man is in Heaven and speaks to us in the Spirit of Truth in this coming time through those sent by Him to speak His words of life and spirit to the churches of men.

The sign that it is Him who speaks is within our own hearts….the rising of the Light within our once-darkened hearts. The sign shall “appear”….that is in Greek, to lighten or SHINE...in Matthew 24:30.

Yet, those who dwell upon the earth…that is, stay focused on their earthly wisdom (envy, strife, wrath, contentions, rudeness, etc)…will “mourn” what they hear and see as many who dwell in Heaven (we “dwell in Heaven” as we always focus on those things above: love, peace, gentleness, etc) depart in “clouds” of people from their carnal churches. The tribes of the earth will speak evil against what they hear and see happening.

They will see the effect of the hearing of the Son of man upon the hearts of those who will hear His voice and believe and obey His command to “arise” and depart. They will see the coming division of the believers from the unbelievers of the churches. They will see the division of Light from darkness. They will mourn this coming division as "clouds" of people who dwell on those things above will hear and obey His voice and come out from among them and be separate (the Light divided from the darkness).

Matthew 24:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He shall send His messengers out with the Spirit of Truth (the trumpet that “awakes” us up out of our “sleep”) and they shall gather together His elect (those believers of His voice) from the four winds (from EVERY wind of doctrine that men are deceptively preaching now) from one end of heaven to the other…as those who will “dwell in Heaven” shall be gathered together in ONE mind by His knowledge as He opens up the Scriptures to our minds.

(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What shall be the sign of your coming….that is, your PRESENCE? The arising Light within our own darkened hearts when we hear His voice spoken by those who are sent by Him in the Spirit in His authority.

Yet, MANY have come in His name (His authority) claiming that they are the Christ…..and yet they do not produce the most obvious shining of Christ within our very own hearts (as His light shines from the rising of Light (the east) in our darkened hearts ….the “west” where the sun had gone down… as it shines out of the darkness).

It is very apparent that it is Him speaking to us (in our hearts) and not a false Christ as there are MANY of them (false Christs) in the churches deceiving men for money’s sake…for their earthly necessities.

Matthew 24:3-5 KJV
(3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Rather than having the Light arising in our hearts, false Christs and false prophets “arise” from the earth (as they are minding earthly things….what to eat, what to drink, what to wear) and come forth to deceive us with their “great signs” and wonders.

Matthew 24:23-27 KJV
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.

They only have outward, carnal “signs” to perform in front of your eyes in order to bewitch us with their portrayal (picture) of His death. They perform big signs in their churches….such as literal water baptism of which they admit is just a “sign” of supposedly inward things.

They perform carnal signs only of which have no effect upon our hearts within….as the Light of Christ does not arise when they do them. They proclaim with their outward signs that behold He (Christ) is now within you by their performance of an outward sign upon you. Behold, He is in the “secret chambers” of the heart….during their show of outwards signs towards us. They want us to submit to their carnal signs. Many listen to the false prophets...who falsely prophesy "peace, peace" within the churches of carnal men as they perform outward signs of supposedly "inward" realities.

(26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Not so with THE real Christ as His presence SHINES within our own hearts very apparently. We hear His voice and we know it is Him as His sheep shall have the witness within them….the Light shining from out of the east (rising of Light) unto the west (where the sun had gone down...darkness).

(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

They that dwell in the “uttermost parts”…..those who are focusing on those things above (love, peace, gentleness, etc)….will be afraid of His “tokens”….that is, SIGNS. They shall see the “outgoing” of the rising of the Light within their hearts (the morning) and the darkness (evening) passes away. They REJOICE when they hear His voice in the Spirit of Truth….the “river of God” waters their hearts and they rejoice.

Psalms 65:8-9 KJV
(8) They also that dwell in the uttermost parts are afraid at thy tokens: thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice.
(9) Thou visitest the earth, and waterest it: thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water: thou preparest them corn, when thou hast so provided for it.

Acts2:38 · Apr 14, 2018

orbiter said:
Peace.

The Son of man is in Heaven and speaks to us in the Spirit of Truth in this coming time through those sent by Him to speak His words of life and spirit to the churches of men.

The sign that it is Him who speaks is within our own hearts….the rising of the Light within our once-darkened hearts. The sign shall “appear”….that is in Greek, to lighten or SHINE...in Matthew 24:30.

Yet, those who dwell upon the earth…that is, stay focused on their earthly wisdom (envy, strife, wrath, contentions, rudeness, etc)…will “mourn” what they hear and see as many who dwell in Heaven (we “dwell in Heaven” as we always focus on those things above: love, peace, gentleness, etc) depart in “clouds” of people from their carnal churches. The tribes of the earth will speak evil against what they hear and see happening.

They will see the effect of the hearing of the Son of man upon the hearts of those who will hear His voice and believe and obey His command to “arise” and depart. They will see the coming division of the believers from the unbelievers of the churches. They will see the division of Light from darkness. They will mourn this coming division as "clouds" of people who dwell on those things above will hear and obey His voice and come out from among them and be separate (the Light divided from the darkness).

Matthew 24:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He shall send His messengers out with the Spirit of Truth (the trumpet that “awakes” us up out of our “sleep”) and they shall gather together His elect (those believers of His voice) from the four winds (from EVERY wind of doctrine that men are deceptively preaching now) from one end of heaven to the other…as those who will “dwell in Heaven” shall be gathered together in ONE mind by His knowledge as He opens up the Scriptures to our minds.

(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What shall be the sign of your coming….that is, your PRESENCE? The arising Light within our own darkened hearts when we hear His voice spoken by those who are sent by Him in the Spirit in His authority.

Yet, MANY have come in His name (His authority) claiming that they are the Christ…..and yet they do not produce the most obvious shining of Christ within our very own hearts (as His light shines from the rising of Light (the east) in our darkened hearts ….the “west” where the sun had gone down… as it shines out of the darkness).

It is very apparent that it is Him speaking to us (in our hearts) and not a false Christ as there are MANY of them (false Christs) in the churches deceiving men for money’s sake…for their earthly necessities.

Matthew 24:3-5 KJV
(3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Rather than having the Light arising in our hearts, false Christs and false prophets “arise” from the earth (as they are minding earthly things….what to eat, what to drink, what to wear) and come forth to deceive us with their “great signs” and wonders.

Matthew 24:23-27 KJV
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.

They only have outward, carnal “signs” to perform in front of your eyes in order to bewitch us with their portrayal (picture) of His death. They perform big signs in their churches….such as literal water baptism of which they admit is just a “sign” of supposedly inward things.

They perform carnal signs only of which have no effect upon our hearts within….as the Light of Christ does not arise when they do them. They proclaim with their outward signs that behold He (Christ) is now within you by their performance of an outward sign upon you. Behold, He is in the “secret chambers” of the heart….during their show of outwards signs towards us. They want us to submit to their carnal signs. Many listen to the false prophets...who falsely prophesy "peace, peace" within the churches of carnal men as they perform outward signs of supposedly "inward" realities.

(26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Not so with THE real Christ as His presence SHINES within our own hearts very apparently. We hear His voice and we know it is Him as His sheep shall have the witness within them….the Light shining from out of the east (rising of Light) unto the west (where the sun had gone down...darkness).

(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

They that dwell in the “uttermost parts”…..those who are focusing on those things above (love, peace, gentleness, etc)….will be afraid of His “tokens”….that is, SIGNS. They shall see the “outgoing” of the rising of the Light within their hearts (the morning) and the darkness (evening) passes away. They REJOICE when they hear His voice in the Spirit of Truth….the “river of God” waters their hearts and they rejoice.

Psalms 65:8-9 KJV
(8) They also that dwell in the uttermost parts are afraid at thy tokens: thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice.
(9) Thou visitest the earth, and waterest it: thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water: thou preparest them corn, when thou hast so provided for it.

Hello and hope the day finds you well.

I love talking about history, but I couldn't help but notice the use of your wording, "they will" and such. Don't you mean, "they had" or "they did" type wording?

Are you in the camp that thinks this has not happened yet? I just want to be sure what your thought is on this.

At the same time, I would like to show you something. Maybe you'll find it interesting or not, informative or not, truthful or not, its up to you.

Matthew 24:3, the disciples ask 2 questions.

1-Tell us, when shall these things be? (talking about the temple verses 1-2)

2- and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus has repeatedly spoken of a day when all will end. Jesus plainly taught His disciples concerning His second coming and the judgment. Matthew 5:21-22; 7:21-22; 10:15; 11:20-24; 12:38-45; 13:24-30 (please note v.30 especially); 13:37-43; 13:47-50 ( parable of the net). Jesus also had asked them if they understood this Matthew 13:51 and they said "Yea Lord".

To attempt to make my explanation brief, Matthew 4-35 is in reference to the first question about the temple.

Matthew 24:36 and following into Matthew 25 is referring to the second question, in which there are no signs, warnings, or announcements.

Furthermore, Matt 24:33-34 tells us that surely everything spoken about previously (verses 4-32) was to happen in the disciples life time. So unless there are 2,000 year old people walking around, this already happened.

You will also notice in Matt 24:36 the word "but". The word "but" is a transition into the next question. See the example:

a. "This generation shall not pass" v34 the "time-text" of the chapter

b. "but of that day and hour" v36 the "transition-text" of the chapter

In verse 36, Jesus is now answering the second question, in which there are no signs, warnings, or announcements, "38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Also, in contrast to Matthew 24:36 and following, Matthew 24:4-35 gave rather specific signs but Jesus in v.36 acknowledged His own lack of knowledge.

Here's a quick little reference chart:
1. Key Text and The Context
a. "This generation shall not pass" v34 the "time-text" of the chapter
b. "but of that day and hour" v36 the "transition-text" of the chapter
c. The context: Culmination of prophecies and warnings
d. The disciples questions: 24:1-3

2. Signs of the Destruction of Jerusalem: 24:4-35
a. General Signs: 24:4-14
b. Specific Signs: 24:15-28
c. Apocalyptic Language: 24:29-33/ Similar language also used concerning:
i. The destruction of Babylon (Isaiah 13:10)

ii. The destruction of Edom (Isaiah 34:4-5)

iii. The destruction of Egypt (Ezekiel 32:7-8)

3. The End of the World: 24:36 through 25:46
Contrast between this (Mat.24:36-25:46) and the former section of Matthew 24 (Mat.24:4-35)
Jesus teaches the suddenness of the second coming (like a thief/ no signs, warnings, announcements).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing to mention is, that Luke 21 is parallel to Matthew 24. In fact, all 4 gospels are parallel accounts of same events through 4 different peoples eyes directed at different audiences. For example, Matthew was directed at the Jews while Mark was directed at Christians in Rome, but they explained the same events.

Why is this pertinent to the Matthew 24 issue? See for yourself.

Matthew 24:14, was the kingdom preached in all the world yet?

Yes, as stated by Paul in Colossians 1:23. With scripture such as Acts 8:39-40, it would be clear that the gospel indeed was preached to all the world.

Matthew 24:14-15, "14...then the end will come. 15 When you will see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel" (paraphrasing).

One such thing spoken of by Daniel 8:13. But what is this "desolation"? And when will it happen?

The disciples had only signs to go off of Matthew 24:4-35, but we have actual history books and scriptures that gives us the edge over them in knowing.

Luke 21:20 states the when Jerusalem is "compassed" by armies, the desolation is "nigh". This happened in 70 AD. It seems that Daniel's prophecy about the 4th kingdom (see Dan2 and Dan8) is about Rome. All these signs and whatnot was during the Roman empire days.

The Roman empire does not exist anymore and Matthew 24:36 and following has yet to happen, but one thing is for sure. Matthew 24:4-35 has long gone into the history books.

orbiter · Apr 15, 2018

Hi Acts2:38,

Peace brother. Thank you for your kind input. Gentleness is always welcomed…thanks for being an example of that.

I hear your viewpoint brother. For me, a lot of what goes on in Matthew 24 is ongoing in the churches of men and will be concluded in the great harvest that is coming soon (the end of this age) where the believers are divided from the unbelievers (the unbelievers who are supposed to be believers in the churches of men).

Matthew 13:30 KJV
(30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We are living in the time where there are many false Christs and many false prophets among us who are showing (giving) great signs in their churches in order to deceive us into going to them and paying them. There is a severe drought….a severe famine…(in the churches of carnal men) of hearing the Word of God spoken in truth and sincerity in Christ.

Matthew 24:24 KJV
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Many have come in His name…or authority…and are saying “I am the Christ” and are deceiving many. This is a now thing.

Matthew 24:4-5 KJV
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24 appears on the surface to be about the destruction of the literal temple as presented by the disciples….

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
(1) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

….but Jesus answers about the destruction of the spiritual temple that we are to understand (“see you not all these things”). He speaks of the “temple of His body”….of which we are.

We are the “stones” who are being thrown down now by false Christs and false prophets of which Jesus did foretell should happen. He told His disciples beforehand what will happen to His church…His body…the temple of His body… in this earth at the hands of false Christs and false prophets. These things are already in motion. His church is currently in tribulation at the hands of sinners….false Christs and false prophets.

We are His body in this earth. Yet, false Christs and false prophets have come forth to scatter us among their many denominations and are keeping us “prisoners” in them with their carnal commandments of men and teachings.

We don’t get along with one another as a result. Indeed, the “stones” are not left upon another as we have been deceived and are living in church divisions in envy and strife and hatred of one another. We have been scattered to the 4 winds….to every wind of doctrine preached by those who handle the Word of God deceitfully for pay.

(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Many are being deceived now. But our merciful Lord comes to deliver those who will hear His voice as He opens up the Scriptures to their hearing ears. He that has ears, let him hear what the Spirit is saying.

He delivers us from the false Christs and false prophets who do not benefit us as they do not build us up but tear us down as we don’t get along with one another (no stone is left upon another).

He comes to call us out of the churches of men where we are “dead in trespasses and sins”. He calls us out of the darkness and into His marvelous Light.

We hear His voice calling us out and we are to desire the sincere milk of the Word so that we may grow in His knowledge. We hear what the Spirit is saying and we are to be found of Him laying aside all malice, all guile and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking towards what we hear….the sincere Word of God spoken to us via the Spirit from Heaven.

1 Peter 2:1-6 KJV
(1) Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
(2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
(3) If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
(4) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

We, as lively stones, are to be built up a true spiritual house. The Lord builds us. What men have been building is in vain.

We shall hear His voice as He opens up the Scriptures to our understanding and we are to be assembled together of one mind and one spirit in Him.

(5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

It is a hearing thing (His voice speaks to us)….as He speaks to us from Heaven in the Spirit sent from Heaven. The River of Life flows from Heaven and is the Spirit of Truth sent to those who “thirst” to hear His words of life and spirit.

He sends out His messengers for the building (edifying) of the body of Christ which is currently being destroyed by false Christs and false prophets. Not one stone is left upon another as we have NO UNITY in the many different churches of carnally-thinking men. We have no unity and no knowledge in them.

Ephesians 4:11-15 KJV
(11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

We are to come together as a spiritual building in the UNITY of faith and of the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God unto a COMPLETE (“perfect”) man….unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. We don’t see this yet…but it is coming.

(13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Then we shall no more be “children” being tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine (the 4 winds) that is being preached in the churches of carnal men.

We shall hear His voice and come out from among them and be separate as commanded of us. We shall be in unity…of one mind…as the knowledge of Christ brings us together in the Truth. He opens up the Scriptures to the eyes of our understanding. We are to be “enlightened” to the Truth and not be found crucifying the Son of God afresh by speaking evil of what we hear. We are made partakers of the Spirit sent from Heaven….drinking in what we hear.

(14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

He shall send His messengers out with the Spirit of Truth to “awake” those who are “asleep” in the carnal churches of men where they are being deceived and scattered by the 4 winds….EVERY WIND of doctrine that is being preached deceptively in every church. He will gather us together in the unity of faith and in the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord unto a complete man. This has not happened yet.....but is coming soon.

Matthew 24:31 KJV
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Lord comes to open up the Scriptures to our minds whereby we are gathered together in His knowledge.

First, it is a hearing thing and not a visual thing. We hear His voice. We hear Heaven as the Spirit comes from Heaven and gives us the excellent knowledge of our Lord by which we grow by.

The Son of man who is in Heaven comes to speak to us and we are to be found of Him “watching”…that is, remembering to let brotherly love continue. He sends His messengers (flesh and bone men) out to speak His eternal words of life and spirit. They will be “strangers” who we don’t recognize but we show brotherly love towards them anyway….showing that we are doing it for Him.

Some will forget to let brotherly love continue and will “beat” upon His servants with their hard, malicious words. They will “eat and drink” with those who will do the same thinking that “MY LORD DELAYS HIS COMING”. They will enjoy their unrighteousness towards those whom He sends out….not seeing Him in those “strangers” whom He sends out. “When did we see you (the Lord) as a stranger and invite you in?” Whatever you have not done for these least brothers of mine, you have not done unto Me.

Matthew 24:45-51 KJV
(45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
(46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
(47) Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
(48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
(49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
(50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
(51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus defines the end of the "world" (that is, this evil age of darkness) as the HARVEST. The reapers are His words spoken through those messengers whom He sends out in His authority. His words enlighten the eyes of our understanding and the witness of the Son is within our very own heart where His Light (the bright, morning star) shines.

Matthew 13:39 KJV
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

We know not at what hour the Lord’s voice comes to our hearing ears.

Will we be found ready to hear His voice…His words…. or will we be found “asleep” to remembering to let brotherly love continue when we hear the words of a “stranger”? Will be found bogged down in the cares of this world and be found not watching for His voice? The Son of man who is in Heaven shall speak to us….at a time many are not expecting…in a way that most are not expecting.

We do not know when He comes to speak to our ears and hearts. We don’t know through what person He uses to come speak to us His eternal words of life. The Lord comes in our hearing first with His words spoken in the Spirit through the messengers whom He sends out. “Watch”….to keep awake to His righteousness….letting brotherly love continue and entertain “strangers” and their words.

Matthew 24:42 KJV
(42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:44 KJV
(44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

We do not know what day and hour that we shall hear a “stranger” come to us and speak to us His words of life and spirit to our hearing ears.

“This generation” speaks of the “generation” as defined in Proverbs 30. We do not know at what day and hour we shall hear His words....which do not pass away. That is why we should always be "awake" to His righteousness so that we may be ready when we do hear His voice.

Matthew 24:34-36 KJV
(34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(35) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(36) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

“This generation” speaks of how certain people act not about a literal generation.

There is a “generation” that is pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness. There is a generation of people in the churches of men that use their teeth as swords and devour the poor (those who need to hear the Word of God spoken in truth and sincerity) from off the earth (as the good news of the eternal life of Jesus in this earth is not being preached). “This generation” has not passed away yet as “this generation” is still in the churches of men behaving in such a manner.

Proverbs 30:11-15 KJV
(11) There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
(12) There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
(13) There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
(14) There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
(15) The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:

“This generation” is still with us….as men are lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, etc…..

2 Timothy 3:1-9 KJV
(1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

“This generation” will hear His voice and yet will never be able to come to the full knowledge of the Truth.

(7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

“This generation” will be made manifest for they will not endure the Word of Truth when they hear it. They will be rejected concerning the faith fro they will not believe in the words of our Lord when He speaks to us from Heaven.

(8) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(9) But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

“This generation” will persecute those who will hear His voice and will live godly in Christ Jesus. “This generation” will “wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived”.

2 Timothy 3:12-14 KJV
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
(13) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

The things we who believe in what we hear hear....and we know of Whom they come from….our Lord and Savior…while “this generation” will not hear and will be found behaving badly towards His voice. This generation who will resist the Truth when they hear it will pass away.

(14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Acts2:38 · Apr 15, 2018

orbiter said:
Hi Acts2:38,

Peace brother. Thank you for your kind input. Gentleness is always welcomed…thanks for being an example of that.

I hear your viewpoint brother. For me, a lot of what goes on in Matthew 24 is ongoing in the churches of men and will be concluded in the great harvest that is coming soon (the end of this age) where the believers are divided from the unbelievers (the unbelievers who are supposed to be believers in the churches of men).

Thank you for your reply and hearing me out. Thank you for placing your thoughts to the reply.

I am glad we can both discuss our view points in a kind and civilized fashion.

I hope you have a great rest of the weekend.

God bless.

Acts2:38 · Apr 16, 2018

orbiter said:
Hi Acts2:38,

Peace brother. Thank you for your kind input. Gentleness is always welcomed…thanks for being an example of that.

I hear your viewpoint brother. For me, a lot of what goes on in Matthew 24 is ongoing in the churches of men and will be concluded in the great harvest that is coming soon (the end of this age) where the believers are divided from the unbelievers (the unbelievers who are supposed to be believers in the churches of men).

Matthew 13:30 KJV
(30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We are living in the time where there are many false Christs and many false prophets among us who are showing (giving) great signs in their churches in order to deceive us into going to them and paying them. There is a severe drought….a severe famine…(in the churches of carnal men) of hearing the Word of God spoken in truth and sincerity in Christ.

Matthew 24:24 KJV
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Many have come in His name…or authority…and are saying “I am the Christ” and are deceiving many. This is a now thing.

Matthew 24:4-5 KJV
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24 appears on the surface to be about the destruction of the literal temple as presented by the disciples….

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV
(1) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

….but Jesus answers about the destruction of the spiritual temple that we are to understand (“see you not all these things”). He speaks of the “temple of His body”….of which we are.

We are the “stones” who are being thrown down now by false Christs and false prophets of which Jesus did foretell should happen. He told His disciples beforehand what will happen to His church…His body…the temple of His body… in this earth at the hands of false Christs and false prophets. These things are already in motion. His church is currently in tribulation at the hands of sinners….false Christs and false prophets.

We are His body in this earth. Yet, false Christs and false prophets have come forth to scatter us among their many denominations and are keeping us “prisoners” in them with their carnal commandments of men and teachings.

We don’t get along with one another as a result. Indeed, the “stones” are not left upon another as we have been deceived and are living in church divisions in envy and strife and hatred of one another. We have been scattered to the 4 winds….to every wind of doctrine preached by those who handle the Word of God deceitfully for pay.

(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Many are being deceived now. But our merciful Lord comes to deliver those who will hear His voice as He opens up the Scriptures to their hearing ears. He that has ears, let him hear what the Spirit is saying.

He delivers us from the false Christs and false prophets who do not benefit us as they do not build us up but tear us down as we don’t get along with one another (no stone is left upon another).

He comes to call us out of the churches of men where we are “dead in trespasses and sins”. He calls us out of the darkness and into His marvelous Light.

We hear His voice calling us out and we are to desire the sincere milk of the Word so that we may grow in His knowledge. We hear what the Spirit is saying and we are to be found of Him laying aside all malice, all guile and hypocrisy and envy and all evil speaking towards what we hear….the sincere Word of God spoken to us via the Spirit from Heaven.

1 Peter 2:1-6 KJV
(1) Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
(2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
(3) If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
(4) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

We, as lively stones, are to be built up a true spiritual house. The Lord builds us. What men have been building is in vain.

We shall hear His voice as He opens up the Scriptures to our understanding and we are to be assembled together of one mind and one spirit in Him.

(5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

It is a hearing thing (His voice speaks to us)….as He speaks to us from Heaven in the Spirit sent from Heaven. The River of Life flows from Heaven and is the Spirit of Truth sent to those who “thirst” to hear His words of life and spirit.

He sends out His messengers for the building (edifying) of the body of Christ which is currently being destroyed by false Christs and false prophets. Not one stone is left upon another as we have NO UNITY in the many different churches of carnally-thinking men. We have no unity and no knowledge in them.

Ephesians 4:11-15 KJV
(11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

We are to come together as a spiritual building in the UNITY of faith and of the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God unto a COMPLETE (“perfect”) man….unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. We don’t see this yet…but it is coming.

(13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Then we shall no more be “children” being tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine (the 4 winds) that is being preached in the churches of carnal men.

We shall hear His voice and come out from among them and be separate as commanded of us. We shall be in unity…of one mind…as the knowledge of Christ brings us together in the Truth. He opens up the Scriptures to the eyes of our understanding. We are to be “enlightened” to the Truth and not be found crucifying the Son of God afresh by speaking evil of what we hear. We are made partakers of the Spirit sent from Heaven….drinking in what we hear.

(14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

He shall send His messengers out with the Spirit of Truth to “awake” those who are “asleep” in the carnal churches of men where they are being deceived and scattered by the 4 winds….EVERY WIND of doctrine that is being preached deceptively in every church. He will gather us together in the unity of faith and in the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord unto a complete man. This has not happened yet.....but is coming soon.

Matthew 24:31 KJV
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Lord comes to open up the Scriptures to our minds whereby we are gathered together in His knowledge.

First, it is a hearing thing and not a visual thing. We hear His voice. We hear Heaven as the Spirit comes from Heaven and gives us the excellent knowledge of our Lord by which we grow by.

The Son of man who is in Heaven comes to speak to us and we are to be found of Him “watching”…that is, remembering to let brotherly love continue. He sends His messengers (flesh and bone men) out to speak His eternal words of life and spirit. They will be “strangers” who we don’t recognize but we show brotherly love towards them anyway….showing that we are doing it for Him.

Some will forget to let brotherly love continue and will “beat” upon His servants with their hard, malicious words. They will “eat and drink” with those who will do the same thinking that “MY LORD DELAYS HIS COMING”. They will enjoy their unrighteousness towards those whom He sends out….not seeing Him in those “strangers” whom He sends out. “When did we see you (the Lord) as a stranger and invite you in?” Whatever you have not done for these least brothers of mine, you have not done unto Me.

Matthew 24:45-51 KJV
(45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
(46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
(47) Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
(48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
(49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
(50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
(51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus defines the end of the "world" (that is, this evil age of darkness) as the HARVEST. The reapers are His words spoken through those messengers whom He sends out in His authority. His words enlighten the eyes of our understanding and the witness of the Son is within our very own heart where His Light (the bright, morning star) shines.

Matthew 13:39 KJV
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

We know not at what hour the Lord’s voice comes to our hearing ears.

Will we be found ready to hear His voice…His words…. or will we be found “asleep” to remembering to let brotherly love continue when we hear the words of a “stranger”? Will be found bogged down in the cares of this world and be found not watching for His voice? The Son of man who is in Heaven shall speak to us….at a time many are not expecting…in a way that most are not expecting.

We do not know when He comes to speak to our ears and hearts. We don’t know through what person He uses to come speak to us His eternal words of life. The Lord comes in our hearing first with His words spoken in the Spirit through the messengers whom He sends out. “Watch”….to keep awake to His righteousness….letting brotherly love continue and entertain “strangers” and their words.

Matthew 24:42 KJV
(42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:44 KJV
(44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

We do not know what day and hour that we shall hear a “stranger” come to us and speak to us His words of life and spirit to our hearing ears.

“This generation” speaks of the “generation” as defined in Proverbs 30. We do not know at what day and hour we shall hear His words....which do not pass away. That is why we should always be "awake" to His righteousness so that we may be ready when we do hear His voice.

Matthew 24:34-36 KJV
(34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
(35) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(36) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

“This generation” speaks of how certain people act not about a literal generation.

There is a “generation” that is pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness. There is a generation of people in the churches of men that use their teeth as swords and devour the poor (those who need to hear the Word of God spoken in truth and sincerity) from off the earth (as the good news of the eternal life of Jesus in this earth is not being preached). “This generation” has not passed away yet as “this generation” is still in the churches of men behaving in such a manner.

Proverbs 30:11-15 KJV
(11) There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
(12) There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
(13) There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
(14) There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
(15) The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:

“This generation” is still with us….as men are lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, etc…..

2 Timothy 3:1-9 KJV
(1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

“This generation” will hear His voice and yet will never be able to come to the full knowledge of the Truth.

(7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

“This generation” will be made manifest for they will not endure the Word of Truth when they hear it. They will be rejected concerning the faith fro they will not believe in the words of our Lord when He speaks to us from Heaven.

(8) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(9) But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

“This generation” will persecute those who will hear His voice and will live godly in Christ Jesus. “This generation” will “wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived”.

2 Timothy 3:12-14 KJV
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
(13) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

The things we who believe in what we hear hear....and we know of Whom they come from….our Lord and Savior…while “this generation” will not hear and will be found behaving badly towards His voice. This generation who will resist the Truth when they hear it will pass away.

(14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Hello again,

I have been thinking about your last post. I believe everything we have discussed, basically in a nutshell, hinges on time frame.

If I am correct (please let me know otherwise) your position would be that all of Matthew 24 speaks of our present and future time frames.

My position is that Matthew 24:4-35 is completed and that Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 25 is an undisclosed future still yet to happen.

So, I wished to make another attempt to speak on the time frames of Matthew 24. I made "time frames" plural because I believe it speaks of two different events happening at different times. But let me hold this thought for a moment.

I wish to explain what is agreed.

I do agree, there are always people out there trying to lead the pack astray so to speak. There has been since Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection. There has always been good generations and bad generations (for lack of better words to use), good centuries and bad. There always will be until Christ's second coming.

What I am putting forth is that Matthew 24:4-35 is about a specific time and people that has already happened.

So in Matthew 24, could we agree that the people Jesus is talking to are His disciples? Matthew 24:1-3

v1- "...his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple."

v2- "...the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

And therefore, could we agree that when Jesus is speaking in verses 4-51, the audience would be the disciples, as He answers their questions?

If we could agree to that, we could proceed further below here.

Now if it is the disciples Jesus is speaking to, is it also the very same people Jesus is talking to in verse 32-33?

v32- Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh

v33- So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

So if we can agree that Jesus is directing specifically at the disciples in these two verses, we could move forward from here below.

With the information above, who now, is Jesus directing at specifically? What generation would that be in the verse below?

v34- Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Before you make any decision just yet, I have more scriptural evidence to place before you if you permit.

I see Proverbs 30 and when I read it, I see it is speaking of the Jewish commonwealth. Before you are left puzzled as to why, I will show you the scriptures now.

Luke 11:29-30 (note the time frame this is spoken on. This is before Jesus spoke about the events in Luke 21 and Matthew 24)

29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Jesus refers to that very generation as "evil". He even goes as far to say that they will deliver up Jesus (which they did). That very generation.

Matthew 16 - This is directed at that very generation, not a future one.

Luke 9:41 - He calls that very generation a perverse one. Not a future one but theirs.

Matthew 12:39 - Evil and adulterous. We know He speaks of that generation and not a future one because of the next few verses that no doubt refer to the crucifixion of Christ.

Matthew 12:45 - The audience- a crowd of people. Call them a wicked generation. Not a future one.

Acts 2:40 - Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit now (See Acts 2:1-5) called them perverse also. Not a future one.

This is part of the reason I believe Matthew 24:4-35 speaks about that very generation of the disciples.

34 -Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Other evidence is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. Matthew was written before that time, and yet you have Jesus predicting its destruction in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. It was prophesied in Daniel. Even secular writings can account for the accuracy of events that were foretold.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Run parallel with Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Furthermore, if this was speaking about our future, and it is speaking about Christ second coming, would there be any need to flee to the mountains? Matthew 24:16-18; Luke 21:21.

On top of that, now days, who is running around with swords? Luke 21:24. Will "all nations" adopt slavery and place the Jews under it? Or did this already happen?

Lastly, about the stones etc Matthew 24:1-3. The context is not figurative language. It is literal. There is no doubt to this. If you look at what happened to Jerusalem in 70 AD, you can see it turned into a reality for them. Rome completely obliterated the city and temple therein, all within that generations time in Matt24.

Please place your thoughts on this matter. Thank you for your time with me.

orbiter · Apr 18, 2018

Peace. Thank you for the thought-provoking post brother.

I have pondered it and think that Matthew 24….Luke 21….Mark 13… perhaps have 2 fulfillments so to speak….one for the Jews with the destruction of the literal temple and one for the Gentile Christian churches….the “temple of His body” brought on by false Christs and false prophets.

As you point out, the literal temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. but we also know that there are many false prophets out there in the world today leading many people down the broad pathway to destruction. If we are the “temple of His body”….His church, then the temple is still being destroyed by false Christs and false prophets who come to us and deceive us…claiming to be the Anointed when they are not. We have many warnings of their presence and their destruction throughout the New Testament.

All have fell short of the glory of God. The Gentile Christian churches are no better than the Jews for there is none righteous as all have gone out of the Way of righteousness. We have all together become unprofitable. We have our own “this generation” that we must flee from…that we must save ourselves from. Christ comes to open up our understanding to the Scriptures so that we may know Him who is true and escape from the wicked and unreasonable men in the churches who have crept in among us unawares.

Romans 3:9-19 KJV
(9) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
(12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
(14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
(15) Their feet are swift to shed blood:
(16) Destruction and misery are in their ways:
(17) And the way of peace have they not known:
(18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

There are some differences in the Olivet discourse in the 3 Synoptic gospels. I have been mainly focusing on Matthew 24 in this thread because of the sign of the Son of man who is in Heaven is dealt with in Matthew.

The “stones” in Matthew 24 still apply to us today as we are the “living stones” that are supposed to be built up in the unity of faith, love, spirit. We are to be a building in Christ together.

Matthew 24:2 KJV
(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

How are we being thrown down? There is no unity among us as many are tripped up into betraying one another and hating one another because of the false prophets who lead us astray into their churches where there are divisions, envy and strife. The love of many has waxed cold.

Matthew 24:10-12 KJV
(10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

For me.....The “abomination of desolation” is the covetousness of men. Covetousness = idolatry. Through covetousness...the abomination of desolation.... do they (false church teachers) with feigned words make merchandise of those they are deceiving. Their destruction does not slumber. They bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
(1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
(2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

In Luke, we see that the abomination of desolation is not even mentioned. Yet, we see in the temple how it was adorned with “goodly stones and gifts”. It is the covetousness regarding those “gifts”…offerings…that brings the temple of His body to destruction. We must beware of covetousness. Men preach for money (the "gifts) in the churches of men. They covet after them.

Luke 21:5-6 KJV
(5) And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
(6) As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Covetousness should not be named once among us (the holy place) as becoming saints.

We are to instead keep the “daily sacrifice” of our Lord by walking in love as Christ has loved us and has given Himself for us an offering and sacrifice to God….

Ephesians 5:1-3 KJV
(1) Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
(2) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
(3) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

We find the abomination of desolation in the temple (where it should not be found) as men “buy and sell” and His house is being called a “den of thieves”. The nations blaspheme His holy name when they see the moneychangers inside the churches making merchandise of the sheep. They exchange the glory of God that is due Him from all nations for money's sake.

Mark 11:15-17 KJV
(15) And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
(16) And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
(17) And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

We are to let our conversation be without covetousness and be content with such things as we have. He will never leave us nor forsake us.

Hebrews 13:5 KJV
(5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

But we see in Matthew 24 that Jesus “went out and departed from the temple”. The glory of the Lord departs from the temple when there is the abomination going on inside it.

Matthew 24:1-3 KJV
(1) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
(3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I know I haven’t gone through all of your points. Out of time this morning. Talk to you later.

orbiter · Apr 19, 2018

When we shall see (that is, to understand) the abomination of desolation (covetousness) stand in the holy place (covetous should not be once named among us), then we are to flee into the “mountains” ….the “mountains” of God’s righteousness.

It is already there....we just have to understand it is there and take action when the "eyes of our understanding" are opened and we readily see it among us in the churches of men.

Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

His righteousness is like the great mountains….and we are to flee covetousness into the mountains of His righteousness where we experience His abundant mercy and His faithfulness that reach unto the clouds. Our God is awesome unto us and forgives us for going astray!

Psalms 36:5-10 KJV
(5) Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
(6) Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.
(7) How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.
(8) They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures.
(9) For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
(10) O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.

Men are coveting after money in their churches…preaching for money’s sake and exchanging the glory that is due God from all nations for gain. They have erred from the faith….

1 Timothy 6:10-11 KJV
(10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But, we are to FLEE these things….flee to the mountains of God’s righteousness. Flee these things and follow after righteousness: godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

(11) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

We must not sit together with them in their churches as they preach for the image….money that has the image of corruptible man upon it. We must not sit together with those who are called “brothers” but are covetous.

We defile our own mortal bodies when we do. It is called “fornication” when we sit together with them. We must flee the “fornication” as we become ONE FLESH with those who are being destroyed for their covetousness. When we see the “abomination of desolation” standing where it should not be in the churches of men, we must flee. We must come out from among them and be separate.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 KJV
(9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
(10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
(11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
(12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
(13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

orbiter · Apr 20, 2018

Those who are on the “housetop”…at the pinnacle of the temple of His body (His church)… are to understand and flee the abomination….the covetousness. They are not to come down and take anything out of His house….the house called by His name. They are to no longer be coveting after another man’s “gold, silver or apparel” once they have the "eyes of their understanding" opened. They must flee covetousness. Beware of covetousness.

Matthew 24:15-17 KJV
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Paul fully declared the counsel of God to the overseers of the church of God…who are at the “housetop”….at the pinnacle of the temple….

Acts 20:27-28 KJV
(27) For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Paul did not covet any man’s silver, or gold or apparel but rather worked with his own hands (as a tentmaker) to support his own earthly necessities. He did not take covet and take anything from the church of God…His house.

Acts 20:32-35 KJV
(32) And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
(33) I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
(34) Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
(35) I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

The getting of “treasures” with a lying tongue (through covetousness do they speak feigned words) is a vanity tossed to and from of them that seek death. The robbery of the wicked (the wicked pastor of the churches who is at the “housetop”) shall destroy them. Those who are the pinnacle of the temple are not to cast themselves down.

Proverbs 21:6-7 KJV
(6) The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro of them that seek death.
(7) The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment.

Let him which is in the “field” (we are the “field” of God and we are His fellowhelpers) not return back to take his “clothes”….

Matthew 24:17-18 KJV
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

….that is, not to return to using flattering words for a “cloak of covetousness” once we understand what the abomination of desolation is. We must cease from speaking flattering words...not returning to it. The true apostles....the example that we are to follow....did not speak in deceit. Guile was not found in their mouths. It should not be there as preachers of the gospel..

1 Thessalonians 2:1-9 KJV
(1) For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
(2) But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
(3) For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
(4) But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
(5) For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
(6) Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
(7) But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:
(8) So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

The true apostles worked with their own hands (laboring night and day) so as not to be chargeable to any as they preached the gospel of God. They did not retail the Word of God.

Those who are on the “housetop” are those who are preaching the gospel and are supposed to be working with their own hands to support their own earthly necessities and not be coveting after the churches money….preaching for it.

(9) For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

Acts2:38 · Apr 20, 2018

Hello!

For some reason or another, I didn't get any alerts to new postings here. Apologies for the silence.

Thank you for putting forth your thoughts. Thank you for your hospitality on your thread.

While I suppose we both would have to agree to disagree with each other

, I am eternally grateful for your time with me. Until we meet again in future discussions (God willing), you take care and be safe.

orbiter · Apr 21, 2018

No problem brother. Glad you stopped by to discuss these important things with me. Come back anytime! Thank you for your kindness.

Ron Gurley · Apr 22, 2018

I love and spiritually discern Matthew 24. What is the QUESTION / POINT of this OP??

Ron Gurley · Apr 23, 2018

Matthew 24...Jesus' prophecy and SIGNS of the "end of the (CHURCH) age" of Grace

QUESTIONS:
3 As He (Jesus) was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the DISCIPLES came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, (prophesy!)
1. WHEN will these THINGS happen, and
2. what will be the SIGN(s) of "Your (Second) COMING", and
3. (what will be the SIGN(s)) of "the end of the (Church) age"?”

ANSWERS:
1. v. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, (WHEN Tribulations / Things BEGIN)
not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
3.. v. 2-28...THINGS / SIGNS of .."birth pangs"...tribulation...great tribulation...to the brink...THEN
2. v. 29-31... Jesus' Glorious Return from Heaven!

Matthew 24...Jesus: Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree:
when its branch (of Jessee?) has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, (prospers)
you know that summer (Second Coming) is near;
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, (SIGNS v 4-28)
recognize that He is near, right at the door. (all conditions have been fulfilled)
34 Truly I say to you, this GENERATION (era) will not PASS AWAY (end) until all these THINGS (SIGNS) take place.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, (the day of the LORD) but My "words" will not pass away.

A mystery hidden in a parable:

....Truly I say to you, this GENERATION.... (Church's end = "the end of the age"...SEE: verse 3)
....will not PASS AWAY... (happen / end)
until all these THINGS (tribulations) take place.

"GENERATION":
New Testament (Greek) for "GENERATION"...in context! =
genea ..., time, age, nation (an ERA?) ... NOT the life span of the PEOPLE listening!

"PASS AWAY":
New Testament (Greek) for "PASS AWAY" ..in context! =
parerchomai ... pass away, pass, pass by, pass over, transgress, past, go, come forth, come...NOT PEOPLE dying!

LittleLambofJesus · May 8, 2018

orbiter said:
Peace.

Matthew 24:3-5 KJV
(3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?...............

Hello.
That is a very bad translation of Matt 24:3, concerning the words "coming" and "world" and why I avoid the KJV.
The Greek word used for "coming" in that verse is "parousia". That word is unique only in Matt 24 of the Gospels and is used 4 times in that chapter of the 24 times it is used in the NT

Matthew 24:3
He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age/aiwnoV<165>" [Daniel 12/Revelation 19]

The rest of the times it used only in the Epistles of Paul and James, Peter and 1John, the 4 major Apostles in the NT:

Genesis 1:1 (YLT)

"Parousia" mentioned 24 Times only 4 times in Gospels all in Matt 24

parousiaV <3952> Mentioned 6 times. Matt 24:3; Phil 1:26; 2 Thess 2:1,8; James 5:7; 2 Peter 3:4

Parousia <3952> Mentioned 15 times. Matt 24:27, 37, 39; 1 Corin 15:23, 16:17; 2 Corin 7:6,7, 10:10; Phil 2:12; 1 Thess 2:19, 3:13, 5:23; 2 Thess 2:9; James 5:8, 1 John 2:28

parousian <3952> Mentioned 3 Times 1 thess 4:15; 2 Peter 1:16; 2 Peter 3:12

The 1st time it is used outside of Matt 24 is in 1Corin 15:23:

1Co 15:23
and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in His Parousia <3952>,

It is the exact form of the #2952 used in Matt 24:27,37,39.

I and many other believe Revelation is showing the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 ad, just as God sent the Babylonians to "spank" Jerusalem in the OT.
Thoughts?

John 11:48
"If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation
[Reve 6:6/14:8]

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........

By George Peter Holford
(Written in 1805)

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

So far as they tend to verify OUR LORD'S PREDICTIONS Relative to that event.

LittleLambofJesus · May 8, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Hello again,

I have been thinking about your last post. I believe everything we have discussed, basically in a nutshell, hinges on time frame.

If I am correct (please let me know otherwise) your position would be that all of Matthew 24 speaks of our present and future time frames.

My position is that Matthew 24:4-35 is completed and that Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 25 is an undisclosed future still yet to happen.

So, I wished to make another attempt to speak on the time frames of Matthew 24. I made "time frames" plural because I believe it speaks of two different events happening at different times. But let me hold this thought for a moment......."snip"

Hello and interesting perspective.
How much of Revelation do you think is fulfilled?
And why is just Matt 24 being talked about and not the other 2 Gospels of Mark and Luke? Just curious. Thank you

Matthew 24:3
Of sitting of Him upon the mount of the olives, came toward to Him the Disciples according to own saying:
"Be telling us when these shall be and what the sign of the Thy parousiaV and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age."

Mark 13:3
And of sitting Him into the mount of the Olives, opposite the temple, inquired of Him according to own, Peter and James and John, and Andrew
4 `Tell us when these shall be? and what the Sign/shmeion <4592> whenever may be about all these to be being together-finished/sun-teleisqai <4931> (5745)?'

Luke 21:7
They inquire of yet Him, saying, `Teacher!, when then these shall be, and what the Sign/shmeion <4592> whenever may be being about these to be becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738).

Acts2:38 · May 8, 2018

Greetings!

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello and interesting perspective.
How much of Revelation do you think is fulfilled?

I do not believe Matt 24 relating to the 70AD destruction of the temple and Jerusalem are the same. Why? Because Revelation was done about 95-96 AD long after the 70AD event.

However, I believe that ALL of Revelation is completed EXCEPT the second coming of Christ, in which there are no signs, warnings, or announcements.

Revelation is written heavily in code talk alluding to the OT over 278 times out of the 404 verses in the book. Something those people would have understood easily.

LittleLambofJesus said:
And why is just Matt 24 being talked about and not the other 2 Gospels of Mark and Luke? Just curious. Thank you

As we both know, the 4 gospels are through 4 different peoples eyes. You and I can write about the same thing, we will surely word things differently.

Also, the 4 gospels had a crowd they directed at more so than other groups.

Matthew was directed at the Jews, which is probably why it was described in greater detail.
Mark was directed to Christian Romans and gentiles alike.
Luke was toward Theophilus, gentiles, and just a broad spectrum of people everywhere.
John was directed toward new Christians and non-christians.

Ron Gurley · May 8, 2018

Matthew 24...Jesus' prophecy and SIGNS of the "end of the (CHURCH) age" of Grace (all NASB)

QUESTIONS:
3 As He (Jesus) was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the DISCIPLES came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, (prophesy!)
1. WHEN will these THINGS happen, and
2. what will be the SIGN(s) of "Your (Second) COMING", and
3. (what will be the SIGN(s)) of "the end of the (Church) age"?”

ANSWERS:
1. v. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, (WHEN Tribulations / Things BEGIN)
not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
3.. v. 2-28...THINGS / SIGNS of .."birth pangs"...tribulation...great tribulation...to the brink...THEN
2. v. 29-31... Jesus' Glorious Return from Heaven!

Matthew 24...Jesus: Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree:
when its branch (of Jessee?) has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, (prospers)
you know that summer (Second Coming) is near;
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, (SIGNS v 4-28)
recognize that He is near, right at the door. (all conditions have been fulfilled)
34 Truly I say to you, this GENERATION (era) will not PASS AWAY (end) until all these THINGS (SIGNS) take place.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, (the day of the LORD) but My "words" will not pass away.

A mystery hidden in a parable:

....Truly I say to you, this GENERATION.... (Church's end = "the end of the age"...SEE: verse 3)
....will not PASS AWAY... (happen / end)
until all these THINGS (tribulations) take place.

"GENERATION":
Greek for "GENERATION"...in context! =
genea ..., time, age, nation (an ERA?) ... NOT the life span of the PEOPLE listening!

"PASS AWAY":
Greek for "PASS AWAY" ..in context! =
parerchomai ... pass away, pass, pass by, pass over, transgress, past, go, come forth, come...NOT PEOPLE dying!

LittleLambofJesus · May 8, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Greetings!

I do not believe Matt 24 relating to the 70AD destruction of the temple and Jerusalem are the same. Why? Because Revelation was done about 95-96 AD long after the 70AD event.

However, I believe that ALL of Revelation is completed EXCEPT the second coming of Christ, in which there are no signs, warnings, or announcements.
.

Thank you. If you believed the 2nd coming already happened, then you would probably be labeled a heretic....can't have that can we. [The RCs believe they are in the 1000yr period now, which is about as close to full preterism one can be IMHO]. I am willing to embrace that view myself......

However, I believe that ALL of Revelation is completed EXCEPT the second coming of Christ, in which there are no signs, warnings, or announcements.

So which parts of Revelation do you believe are fulfilled, since you brought it up.
AnywY, I am glad you believe most ALL of Revelation is fulfilled.
As far as signs go, Josephus recorded some of that going on before GOD sent the Roman army in 70ad......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.
2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour."
3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple." Such is the strange account given by the historian. Some may regard it as a "Grecian fable," while others may think that they discern in this prodigy a miraculous rebuke of Jewish infidelity and impiety, for rejecting the ANTITYPICAL Lamb, who had offered Up Himself as an atonement, "once for all," and who, by thus completely fulfilling their design, had virtually abrogated the Levitical sacrifice
4. "' About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance." When the guards informed the Curator of this event, he sent men to assist them in shutting it, who with great difficulty succeeded. -- This gate, as hath been observed already, 'Was of solid brass, and required twenty men to close it every evening. It could not have been opened by a "strong gust of wind," or a slight earthquake;" for Josephus says, it was secured by iron bolts And bars, which were let down into a large threshold; consisting of one entire stone." [8]
5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. " Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.
6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE." This gradation will remind the reader of that awful transaction, which the feast of Pentecost *as principally instituted to commemorate. First, a shaking was heard ; this would naturally induce the priests to listen : an unintelligible murmur succeeds; this would more powerfully arrest their attention, and while it was thus awakened arid fixed, they heard, says Josephus, the voices as of a multitude, distinctly pronouncing the words "LET US DEPART HENCE." -- And accordingly, before the period for celebrating this feast returned, the Jewish war had commenced, and in the space of three years afterwards, Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman army, the temple converted into a citadel, and its sacred courts streaming with the blood of human victims.
7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple, "A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !" These words he incessantly proclaimed aloud both day and night, through all the streets of Jerusalem, for seven years and five months together, commencing at a time (A. D. 62) when the city was in a state of peace, and overflowing with prosperity, and terminating amidst the horrors of the siege. This disturber, having excited the attention of the magistracy, was brought before Albinus the Roman governor, who commanded that he should be scourged. But the severest stripes drew from him neither tears nor supplications. As he never thanked those who relieved, so neither did he complain of the injustice of those who struck him. And no other answer could the governor obtain to his interrogatories, but his usual denunciation of "Woe, woe to Jerusalem !" which he still continued to proclaim through the city, but especially during the festivals, when his manner became more earnest, and the tone of his voice louder. At length, on the commencement of the siege, he ascended the walls, and, in a more powerful voice than ever, exclaimed, "Woe, woe to this city, this temple, and this people !" And then, with a presentment of his own death, added," Woe, woe to myself "' he had scarcely uttered these words when a stone from one of the Roman engines killed him on the spot.........

Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Acts2:38 · May 8, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Thank you. If you believed the 2nd coming already happened, then you would probably be labeled a heretic....can't have that can we. [The RCs believe they are in the 1000yr period now, which is about as close to full preterism one can be IMHO]. I am willing to embrace that view myself......

Yea, the second coming has yet to happen. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

As far as preterism is concerned, this article should explain in great detail on where I stand.

The Menace of Radical Preterism

LittleLambofJesus said:
So which parts of Revelation do you believe are fulfilled, since you brought it up.

I believe all has been fulfilled except the second coming.

LittleLambofJesus said:
As far as signs go, Josephus recorded some of that going on before GOD sent the Roman army in 70ad......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Yes, I agree about Matthew 24:4-35 signs as already done. The Jews did have warning and I do not dispute that part.

However, Matthew 24:36- Matthew 25, it talks about the second coming, and there are no signs, warnings, or announcements. The second coming has the Lord coming as "a thief in the night". We all know that thieves give you no knowledge as to when they will rob you. So, we will have no knowledge as to when Christ comes.

LittleLambofJesus · May 8, 2018

Acts2:38 said:
Yea, the second coming has yet to happen. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

I believe all has been fulfilled except the second coming.

Yes, I agree about Matthew 24:4-35 signs as already done. The Jews did have warning and I do not dispute that part.

However, Matthew 24:36- Matthew 25, it talks about the second coming, and there are no signs, warnings, or announcements. The second coming has the Lord coming as "a thief in the night". We all know that thieves give you no knowledge as to when they will rob you. So, we will have no knowledge as to when Christ comes.

Thank you. So you feel Matt 24:36 thru Matt 25 are yet future.
You are of course entitled to your view, as I am to mine.
The Lord did come as a "thief in the night" in the form of the Roman army [just as He did with the Babylonian army in the OT.].

Jer 52:4
Now it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and all his army came against Jerusalem and encamped against it; and they built a siege wall against it all around.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers............. The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness. Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshippers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength

. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance.........................

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished !

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, t He went from the Temple, and His Disciples came toward Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple 2 and Jesus is saying to them "Not ye see all these? Amen I am saying to ye, not no be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown down" [Mark 21:5]
Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

................The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

Acts2:38 · May 8, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
Matthew 24...Jesus' prophecy and SIGNS of the "end of the (CHURCH) age" of Grace (all NASB)

QUESTIONS:
3 As He (Jesus) was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the DISCIPLES came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, (prophesy!)
1. WHEN will these THINGS happen, and
2. what will be the SIGN(s) of "Your (Second) COMING", and
3. (what will be the SIGN(s)) of "the end of the (Church) age"?”

ANSWERS:
1. v. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, (WHEN Tribulations / Things BEGIN)
not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
3.. v. 2-28...THINGS / SIGNS of .."birth pangs"...tribulation...great tribulation...to the brink...THEN
2. v. 29-31... Jesus' Glorious Return from Heaven!

Matthew 24...Jesus: Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree:
when its branch (of Jessee?) has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, (prospers)
you know that summer (Second Coming) is near;
33 so, you too, when you see all these things, (SIGNS v 4-28)
recognize that He is near, right at the door. (all conditions have been fulfilled)
34 Truly I say to you, this GENERATION (era) will not PASS AWAY (end) until all these THINGS (SIGNS) take place.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, (the day of the LORD) but My "words" will not pass away.

A mystery hidden in a parable:

....Truly I say to you, this GENERATION.... (Church's end = "the end of the age"...SEE: verse 3)
....will not PASS AWAY... (happen / end)
until all these THINGS (tribulations) take place.

"GENERATION":
Greek for "GENERATION"...in context! =
genea ..., time, age, nation (an ERA?) ... NOT the life span of the PEOPLE listening!

"PASS AWAY":
Greek for "PASS AWAY" ..in context! =
parerchomai ... pass away, pass, pass by, pass over, transgress, past, go, come forth, come...NOT PEOPLE dying!

QUESTIONS:
(v.3)And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,

1. WHEN will these THINGS happen? (in reference to the temples destruction, see verses 1-2)

2. What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (Jesus has repeatedly in the past explained the end of all things)

ANSWERS:

Quick helpful reference chart Mat. 24

1. Key Text and The Context
a. "This generation shall not pass" v34 the "time-text" of the chapter
b. "but of that day and hour" v36 the "transition-text" of the chapter
c. The context: Culmination of prophecies and warnings
d. The disciples questions: 24:1-3

2. Signs of the Destruction of Jerusalem: 24:4-35
a. General Signs: 24:4-14
b. Specific Signs: 24:15-28
c. Apocalyptic Language: 24:29-33/ Similar language also used concerning:

i. The destruction of Babylon (Isaiah 13:10)
ii. The destruction of Edom (Isaiah 34:4-5)
iii. The destruction of Egypt (Ezekiel 32:7-8)

3. The End of the World: 24:36 through 25:46
a. Contrast between this (Mat.24:36-25:46) and the former section of Matthew 24 (Mat.24:4-35)

Jesus teaches the suddenness of the second coming (like a thief/ no signs, warnings, announcements).

The "but" separates the two questions. We should all know this if we took English class seriously.

You claim that genea doesn't mean those in the first century, what does it mean in Matthew 17:17?

Its the same word used. Do you get to pick and choose regardless of context?

Also, what sense does it make for people to "flee to the mountains" Matt 24:16 or what sense does it make to make a statement such as Matt 24:18, if it was talking about Christ second coming?

It's because it doesn't make sense. Why? Because this already happened in 70 AD.

"but of THAT day" (v.36) changes to the 2nd question asked in which no one knows when it will happen. A thief does not give you warnings or announcements.

Therefore verses 33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Your claim doesn't make sense at all when you see here Jesus is directly talking to the apostles "YE" and "YOU", "This generation" who's? the Apostles, (ye, you) shall not pass away till verses 4-32 happen.

As far as pass away....

It wont mean people dying if I were to just say "pass away". However, it will mean people dying if I said "heaven and earth will pass away" but "my words" will not.

Its all about context/reading comprehension. The words before and after your "key words" here matter. Its how we put things in context. You cant cherry pick. That is when it becomes dangerous.

Matthew 24: What shall be the sign of your coming (presence)?

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What U See is What U Get!

What U See is What U Get!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

What U See is What U Get!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

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