How do you tell a person that their mode of dress is improper?

2PhiloVoid · Apr 17, 2018

redblue22 said:
Jezebels and prostitutes don't change just because they change clothes.

...neither do the "Johns" who chase them. That kind of change of clothing has to be provided by the Holy Spirit.

Serving Zion · Apr 17, 2018

Archivist said:
I see, but of course but no one is judging her for her appearance.

The fact is that we are each responsible for our own sins. If a man lusts because of what a woman is wearing then he needs to look away. The fault lies with him, not with the woman.

Further, who makes the call? Some men might not lust after seeing an attractive woman in a pants suit but would lust after that same woman in a bikini. Others might lust lust after any woman wearing anything short of a burqa. Who makes the call?

When a person repents of his sin, that is to cleanse his hands of the sin that had formerly gripped him (James 4:8), he removes all sources of temptation - he throws away his magazines, cancels online accounts etc. .. why does he do this? Just as a smoker who is becoming a non-smoker knows, that it takes only one cigarette to get hooked again. So they remove all opportunity to fall back on to that destructive path.

So when it comes and sits right next to him, (in a place of sanctuary), that needs to be addressed. A person's pride in appearance cannot be allowed to give the devil a foothold and open the door to many problems for someone who is genuinely making an effort to be renewed in his thinking (James 5:20, Romans 12:2).

It only takes one moment of thought for his habit to be re-ignited, because he has already found some sort of gratification in that thought that he has long since forgotten - and then that weakness can be gradually worked into a temptation that leads to action, and that in turn leads to death as James 1:14-15 describes (where they have again fallen into the degenerate mindset, they argue "it's not my fault, it's a natural thing - God, how can you do this to me!!!").

Furthermore, the spirit that possesses a girl to dress that way in the first place, of course it is aware that boys respond in this way. She thinks it's cute in a way, so she has some sort pity on him. Seeing she sits there, mindful that boys are thinking of her in that way, if they happen to glance at her to see "who is this new person?", the thought on her mind is "yeah I know, you think I'm hot, huh?". She probably has guys looking at her that way everywhere she goes. That non-verbal communication is how the idea gets planted, the accuser has spoken to the boy, the boy has been reminded that indeed he has been fractured, and so he receives the due penalty for his perversion.

Sofaras where does the line get drawn.. that's a personal thing. It really does depend upon how much one has exercised his desire and found out how focusing thought to admire various physical appearances can have corresponding impact upon his chemistry.

Keep one's eyes on the person that wears the flesh, that is to live in the spirit so as to not fulfil the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). Picking one's mind up out of the gutter. Yet, the whole world lies itself down into the power of the wicked one, and his desires is what it desires to do. So just as 1 Peter 4:4 describes, it actually has expectation in it's heart that everyone must be thinking lustfully when they look at the girl.

Personally, it isn't for me that a person tempts me to see them that way when they dress that way, but that they have already decided to accuse me of seeing them that way before I even know that they are there. That false accusation, that just because a man looks at her with a smile on his face, she thinks in response "ugh, gross".. seriously. I am saying, think carefully of each one's individual responsibility toward what is holy and good - what kind of world do you want it to be?

To the pure all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Both their mind and conscience are defiled.
Titus 1:15

.. and that leads back to the short discussion I had two pages back, about how Eve became defiled. We are not born defiled, but James 1:14-15 observes that when we are dragged out (dragged out from where?) by our desires, then sin is conceived.

ToBeLoved · Apr 17, 2018

Serving Zion said:
When a person repents of his sin, that is to cleanse his hands of the sin that had formerly gripped him (James 4:8), he removes all sources of temptation - he throws away his magazines, cancels online accounts etc. .. why does he do this? Just as a smoker who is becoming a non-smoker knows, that it takes only one cigarette to get hooked again. So they remove all opportunity to fall back on to that destructive path.

So when it comes and sits right next to him, (in a place of sanctuary), that needs to be addressed. A person's pride in appearance cannot be allowed to give the devil a foothold and open the door to many problems for someone who is genuinely making an effort to be renewed in his thinking (James 5:20, Romans 12:2).

It only takes one moment of thought for his habit to be re-ignited, because he has already found some sort of gratification in that thought that he has long since forgotten - and then that weakness can be gradually worked into a temptation that leads to action, and that in turn leads to death as James 1:14-15 describes (where they have again fallen into the degenerate mindset, they argue "it's not my fault, it's a natural thing - God, how can you do this to me!!!").

Furthermore, the spirit that possesses a girl to dress that way in the first place, of course it is aware that boys respond in this way. She thinks it's cute in a way, so she has some sort pity on him. Seeing she sits there, mindful that boys are thinking of her in that way, if they happen to glance at her to see "who is this new person?", the thought on her mind is "yeah I know, you think I'm hot, huh?". She probably has guys looking at her that way everywhere she goes. That non-verbal communication is how the idea gets planted, the accuser has spoken to the boy, the boy has been reminded that indeed he has been fractured, and so he receives the due penalty for his perversion.

Sofaras where does the line get drawn.. that's a personal thing. It really does depend upon how much one has exercised his desire and found out how focusing thought to admire various physical appearances can have corresponding impact upon his chemistry.

Keep one's eyes on the person that wears the flesh, that is to live in the spirit so as to not fulfil the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). Picking one's mind up out of the gutter. Yet, the whole world lies itself down into the power of the wicked one, and his desires is what it desires to do. So just as 1 Peter 4:4 describes, it actually has expectation in it's heart that everyone must be thinking lustfully when they look at the girl.

Personally, it isn't for me that a person tempts me to see them that way when they dress that way, but that they have already decided to accuse me of seeing them that way before I even know that they are there. That false accusation, that just because a man looks at her with a smile on his face, she thinks in response "ugh, gross".. seriously. I am saying, think carefully of each one's individual responsibility toward what is holy and good - what kind of world do you want it to be?

To the pure all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Both their mind and conscience are defiled.
Titus 1:15

.. and that leads back to the short discussion I had two pages back, about how Eve became defiled. We are not born defiled, but James 1:14-15 observes that when we are dragged out (dragged out from where?) by our desires, then sin is conceived.

If all it takes is a girl sitting next to him for him to become defiled, then he is weak and it was bound to happen somewhere at sometime. If the weakness is that weak then it is the individuals problem.

If we are to welcome sinners into churches, you will have this happen occasionally and it’s nothing to freak out about. Some people just don’t know better, but Jesus is about souls and the inside.

The truth is no one can make anyone do or think anything. If men are that out of control maybe they should sit in the front pews Where they can see nothing but the pastor and the front area

Serving Zion · Apr 17, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
The truth is no one can make anyone do or think anything.

That's actually not the truth though. This is the whole reason such scriptures as 1 Corinthians 8:11 says that it is our actions that may cause others to stumble.

I do agree with the rest of your post though.

Archivist · Apr 18, 2018

Serving Zion said:
When a person repents of his sin, that is to cleanse his hands of the sin that had formerly gripped him (James 4:8), he removes all sources of temptation - he throws away his magazines, cancels online accounts etc. .. why does he do this? Just as a smoker who is becoming a non-smoker knows, that it takes only one cigarette to get hooked again. So they remove all opportunity to fall back on to that destructive path.

So when it comes and sits right next to him, (in a place of sanctuary), that needs to be addressed. A person's pride in appearance cannot be allowed to give the devil a foothold and open the door to many problems for someone who is genuinely making an effort to be renewed in his thinking (James 5:20, Romans 12:2).

It only takes one moment of thought for his habit to be re-ignited, because he has already found some sort of gratification in that thought that he has long since forgotten - and then that weakness can be gradually worked into a temptation that leads to action, and that in turn leads to death as James 1:14-15 describes (where they have again fallen into the degenerate mindset, they argue "it's not my fault, it's a natural thing - God, how can you do this to me!!!").

Furthermore, the spirit that possesses a girl to dress that way in the first place, of course it is aware that boys respond in this way. She thinks it's cute in a way, so she has some sort pity on him. Seeing she sits there, mindful that boys are thinking of her in that way, if they happen to glance at her to see "who is this new person?", the thought on her mind is "yeah I know, you think I'm hot, huh?". She probably has guys looking at her that way everywhere she goes. That non-verbal communication is how the idea gets planted, the accuser has spoken to the boy, the boy has been reminded that indeed he has been fractured, and so he receives the due penalty for his perversion.

Sofaras where does the line get drawn.. that's a personal thing. It really does depend upon how much one has exercised his desire and found out how focusing thought to admire various physical appearances can have corresponding impact upon his chemistry.

Keep one's eyes on the person that wears the flesh, that is to live in the spirit so as to not fulfil the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). Picking one's mind up out of the gutter. Yet, the whole world lies itself down into the power of the wicked one, and his desires is what it desires to do. So just as 1 Peter 4:4 describes, it actually has expectation in it's heart that everyone must be thinking lustfully when they look at the girl.

Personally, it isn't for me that a person tempts me to see them that way when they dress that way, but that they have already decided to accuse me of seeing them that way before I even know that they are there. That false accusation, that just because a man looks at her with a smile on his face, she thinks in response "ugh, gross".. seriously. I am saying, think carefully of each one's individual responsibility toward what is holy and good - what kind of world do you want it to be?

To the pure all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Both their mind and conscience are defiled.
Titus 1:15

.. and that leads back to the short discussion I had two pages back, about how Eve became defiled. We are not born defiled, but James 1:14-15 observes that when we are dragged out (dragged out from where?) by our desires, then sin is conceived.

So, an attractive woman comes into church wearing a sundress. Nine out of ten men in the church have no problem with what she is wearing. One man, however, is tempted. Is this the woman's fault? Of course not. That one man is responsible for his thoughts, for his sins.

Do you have an attractive home? Do you wear nice clothing or drive a nice car? Shouldn't you have to get rid of all of those because someone out there might commit the sin of envy? Using your reasoning you have caused someone to sin and it is all your fault. Likewise, should we not serve people good food when we have them over for dinner? After all, we might cause them to commit the sin of gluttony. Of course using your reasoning it isn't their fault if they overeat, it is all your fault.

Sorry but we are responsible for our own sins.

ToBeLoved · Apr 18, 2018

Serving Zion said:
That's actually not the truth though. This is the whole reason such scriptures as 1 Corinthians 8:11 says that it is our actions that may cause others to stumble.

I do agree with the rest of your post though.

If that happens though it’s a lack of self discipline. We all have to build up our faith and obedience, so that was my point.

We all see photos and billboards and other things. It’s a matter of choice to not give in to it.

Serving Zion · Apr 18, 2018

Archivist said:
So, an attractive woman comes into church wearing a sundress. Nine out of ten men in the church have no problem with what she is wearing. One man, however, is tempted. Is this the woman's fault? Of course not. That one man is responsible for his thoughts, for his sins.

Do you have an attractive home? Do you wear nice clothing or drive a nice car? Shouldn't you have to get rid of all of those because someone out there might commit the sin of envy? Using your reasoning you have caused someone to sin and it is all your fault. Likewise, should we not serve people good food when we have them over for dinner? After all, we might cause them to commit the sin of gluttony. Of course using your reasoning it isn't their fault if they overeat, it is all your fault.

Sorry but we are responsible for our own sins.

I will not rail with you over this. I will tell you that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that means that corruption has found mastery over us (for some time). Those who have committed to repentance have chosen to pursue holiness through turning away from those behaviours. They do whatever is within their power to remove that temptation from their lives by removing all opportunities they have given to the adversary to have that rightful advantage over them.

The adversary still has legal ownership of the one who is unregenerate, so therefore he has a vessel in which to operate. He walks that vessel into the church and begins to do his work of tempting. The church has the responsibility to educate that person so that she becomes aware that she is doing the devil's work. Then the responsibility becomes hers as to whether she will continue being an active agent for the adversary to continue attempting to exploit a known (though patched) vulnerability.

You might consider what Jeremiah is saying through the context of the passage Jeremiah 8:11. We do each have responsibility to repent, and to share knowledge with each other for that purpose (Ezekiel 33:5-6, John 15:6).

Serving Zion · Apr 18, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
If that happens though it’s a lack of self discipline. We all have to build up our faith and obedience, so that was my point.

We all see photos and billboards and other things. It’s a matter of choice to not give in to it.

I agree with this, and Jesus does most certainly have a legal right to shelter his mind from the tempter where the tempter has not got valid grounds (Philippians 4:7). But if the church begins to condone sinful behaviour when it knows that The Holy Spirit is calling it to do that work (John 16:8), then the adversary has gained ground in the church by having found an exploitable weakness in the very ones that are entrusted to stand His ground (Proverbs 25:26, 1 Corinthians 12:26). They have indeed believed a deception and have acted irresponsibly to the harm of the righteous in their midst (Lamentations 4:12-13).

Archivist · Apr 18, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I will not rail with you over this. I will tell you that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that means that corruption has found mastery over us (for some time). Those who have committed to repentance have chosen to pursue holiness through turning away from those behaviours. They do whatever is within their power to remove that temptation from their lives by removing all opportunities they have given to the adversary to have that rightful advantage over them.

The adversary still has legal ownership of the one who is unregenerate, so therefore he has a vessel in which to operate. He walks that vessel into the church and begins to do his work of tempting. The church has the responsibility to educate that person so that she becomes aware that she is doing the devil's work. Then the responsibility becomes hers as to whether she will continue being an active agent for the adversary to continue attempting to exploit a known (though patched) vulnerability.

You might consider what Jeremiah is saying through the context of the passage Jeremiah 8:11. We do each have responsibility to repent, and to share knowledge with each other for that purpose (Ezekiel 33:5-6, John 15:6).

Yes, as a Christian I am fully aware that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. However, you have ignored everything I said in my post. I presume that the fact that you have done so means you have no answer.

This is a discussion and debate forum. O not asking you or anyone else to “rail” with me. However you apparently don’t want to discuss or debate anything, you simply want to expose your own views.

ToBeLoved · Apr 18, 2018

Serving Zion said:
I agree with this, and Jesus does most certainly have a legal right to shelter his mind from the tempter where the tempter has not got valid grounds (Philippians 4:7). But if the church begins to condone sinful behaviour when it knows that The Holy Spirit is calling it to do that work (John 16:8), then the adversary has gained ground in the church by having found an exploitable weakness in the very ones that are entrusted to stand His ground (Proverbs 25:26, 1 Corinthians 12:26). They have indeed believed a deception and have acted irresponsibly to the harm of the righteous in their midst (Lamentations 4:12-13).

Still cannot say that Jesus would not want sinners in the church, because Jesus hung out with sinners.

Somehow you need to reconcile Jesus attitude with your faith and sinners.

I think this type of thing is why many feel they won’t be welcome

Archivist · Apr 18, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
Still cannot say that Jesus would not want sinners in the church, because Jesus hung out with sinners.

Somehow you need to reconcile Jesus attitude with your faith and sinners.

I think this type of thing is why many feel they won’t be welcome

Well said.

Since Scripture makes it clear that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, I don’t know of a single church that is not filled with sinners.

.Mikha'el. · Apr 19, 2018

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How do you tell a person that their mode of dress is improper?

2PhiloVoid

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Serving Zion

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ToBeLoved

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Serving Zion

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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Archivist

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ToBeLoved

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Serving Zion

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Serving Zion

Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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.Mikha'el.

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