Seat of Moses ?

pat34lee · Apr 15, 2018

Heber Book List said:
Whether Yeshua had this particular one in mind is open to conjecture, but the concept of people sitting in such a seat to consult / teach Tanach is obviously something his hearers would be expected to know. He didn't waste words.

Maybe this is where the idea of a throne for the pope arose, or bishops having their own seat in Anglican church buildings?

I don't think he had a teacher's seat in mind, or
anything in a synagogue. Moses' seats were in
or near the city gates, and were where the judges
would sit and judge legal matters, as with the
photo I posted earlier.
When King David sat 'in the gate,' what did that mean?

pat34lee · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
If the hypocrites had Moses seat or "power" why did they have to conspire with the Romans? Did Moses conspire with pharoah to set Israel free? Did the Pharisees perform any miracles as did Moses?

Because Israel was a conquered state belonging
to Rome. Therefore, Roman law came first, and
Rome kept the right to judge capital cases for
itself. This reminded the vassal states who was
ultimately in charge and who held the power of
life and death.

Heber Book List · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
You don't accept that Moses was no king? Yet you understand that his seat gave power to the Pharisees? Doesn't a chair belonging to a king besrow authority to his heir, after the prince is crowned, he ascends to the throne or seat? Only a king has a seat that bestows authority. Do you agree? I am asking you not only to read the scriptures but understand them.

My responses to your questions are:

*: I didn't: Not necessarily, but we are not talking about a king: No: No: I do:

*I do not follow your double negative

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

pat34lee said:
Because Israel was a conquered state belonging
to Rome. Therefore, Roman law came first, and
Rome kept the right to judge capital cases for
itself. This reminded the vassal states who was
ultimately in charge and who held the power of
life and death.

We know the Pharisees never sat in Moses seat. Yeshua was mocking their doctrines. The Pharisees were imagining themselves sitting in a magical seat as they entertained the people with their wild or strange traditions. Lol.

Eloy Craft · Apr 15, 2018

Nevertheless, Jesus taught differently. Jesus apparently recognized the seat of Moses. Oh And it seems the Jews did as well.

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
The people of a nation are not allowed to crown a prince to become king unless the old king has been buried by the people. This is "common tradition", common sense. This is why no one has ever sat in Moses seat. Why didn't the sons of Moses sit in his seat?

pat34lee · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
You don't accept that Moses was no king? Yet you understand that his seat gave power to the Pharisees? Doesn't a chair belonging to a king besrow authority to his heir, after the prince is crowned, he ascends to the throne or seat? Only a king has a seat that bestows authority. Do you agree? I am asking you not only to read the scriptures but understand them.

Do you have a dining room, with a table and chairs?
If so, does that make you a king? Moses' chair was
not a throne. It was a seat of judgment. Think of it
like this one:

chunkofcoal · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
The Torah does not record any man sitting in the seat of Moses, a heir to the throne can only sit in the king' s chair after the people have buried the king . The "body of Moses" was never found, so no man is allowed to succeed him and sit in his seat, not even his sons. The Pharisees can never sit in Moses seat, the seat of Moses has been reserved for the "body of Moses". After Lazarus was raised from the dead, he was sitting down at the table, while Martha served (John 12:1-3).

If I am understanding you correctly, you seem to believe the seat of Moses is/was an actual seat?

I agree with danny ski on this one - "Moses seat" is a symbolic description of authority.

Tayla · Apr 15, 2018

Zosimos Eremitic said:
My understanding is that he criticized their way of doing things. He believed that if you instill a love of God in the heart of a man that he would behave in a way which pleased God. Where as he criticized the priests as wearing clean and proper clothes, following the letter of the law, but that they were consumed by lust and sin in their heart. So basically that they were hypocrites because they just "went through the motions" but did not love God in their hearts, and were wicked.

Yes, this is as good an interpretation of this as I've ever heard.

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
Nevertheless, Jesus taught differently. Jesus apparently recognized the seat of Moses. Oh And it seems the Jews did as well.

No one except Moses sat in his seat.

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

pat34lee said:
Do you have a dining room, with a table and chairs?
If so, does that make you a king? Moses' chair was
not a throne. It was a seat of judgment. Think of it
like this one:

Do the chairs at your table bestow some special power to govern a nation of people? What about the chair of a judge? Even the power a judge is limited to a city, county, state, of course every opinion can be appealed to a higher Court. When did anyone appeal the verdict from Moses? If a jew disagree with the opinion from the Pharisees would they appeal to Ceasar like Pharisee Shaul a Roman citizen? If you disagree with your pastor would you then appeal to the Supreme Court?

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

chunkofcoal said:
If I am understanding you correctly, you seem to believe the seat of Moses is/was an actual seat?

I agree with danny ski on this one - "Moses seat" is a symbolic description of authority.

Exodus 18:13

danny ski · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
We know the Pharisees never sat in Moses seat. Yeshua was mocking their doctrines. The Pharisees were imagining themselves sitting in a magical seat as they entertained the people with their wild or strange traditions. Lol.

Actually, we don't know that. There's much dispute about the actual composition of the Sanhedrin. We may assume that the head of the Court might have been the High Priest- that would make sense. But, as to the rest of the participants, there's no definite consensus. The Talmudic sources point to the position on the Court to be based on meritocracy.

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

danny ski said:
Actually, we don't know that. There's much dispute about the actual composition of the Sanhedrin. We may assume that the head of the Court might have been the High Priest- that would make sense. But, as to the rest of the participants, there's no definite consensus. The Talmudic sources point to the position on the Court to be based on meritocracy.

We do know, the Pharisees never sentenced anyone to death, Moses did. Pharisee Shaul was born from the tribe of Benjamin, not Levi. Even he used his Roman citizenship concerning legal matters. The Roman government crucified Yeshua not the religious leaders.

danny ski · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
We do know, the Pharisees never sentenced anyone to death, Moses did. Pharisee Shaul was born from the tribe of Benjamin, not Levi. Even he used his Roman citizenship concerning legal matters. The Roman government crucified Yeshua not the religious leaders.

Honestly, I have no clue what you're trying to say.

Steve Petersen · Apr 15, 2018

danny ski said:
Honestly, I have no clue what you're trying to say.

Ditto

ralliann · Apr 15, 2018

danny ski said:
Actually, we don't know that. There's much dispute about the actual composition of the Sanhedrin. We may assume that the head of the Court might have been the High Priest- that would make sense. But, as to the rest of the participants, there's no definite consensus. The Talmudic sources point to the position on the Court to be based on meritocracy.

Here are some verses for consideration.
2Ch 19:8 Moreover in Jerusalem did Jehoshaphat set of the Levites, and of the priests, and of the chief of the fathers of Israel, for the judgment of the LORD, and for controversies, when they returned to Jerusalem.
Lord's matters, vs kings matters......
2Ch 19:11 And, behold, Amariah the chief priest is over you in all matters of the LORD; and Zebadiah the son of Ishmael, the ruler of the house of Judah, for all the king’s matters: also the Levites shall be officers before you. Deal courageously, and the LORD shall be with the good.
2Ch 30:22 And Hezekiah spake comfortably unto all the Levites that taught the good knowledge of the LORD: and they did eat throughout the feast seven days, offering peace offerings, and making confession to the LORD God of their fathers.
2Ch 35:3 And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build; it shall not be a burden upon your shoulders: serve now the LORD your God, and his people Israel,
Ne 8:7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
Ne 8:9 And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.
And this...
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

ralliann · Apr 15, 2018

ralliann said:
Here are some verses for consideration.
2Ch 19:8 Moreover in Jerusalem did Jehoshaphat set of the Levites, and of the priests, and of the chief of the fathers of Israel, for the judgment of the LORD, and for controversies, when they returned to Jerusalem.
Lord's matters, vs kings matters......
2Ch 19:11 And, behold, Amariah the chief priest is over you in all matters of the LORD; and Zebadiah the son of Ishmael, the ruler of the house of Judah, for all the king’s matters: also the Levites shall be officers before you. Deal courageously, and the LORD shall be with the good.
2Ch 30:22 And Hezekiah spake comfortably unto all the Levites that taught the good knowledge of the LORD: and they did eat throughout the feast seven days, offering peace offerings, and making confession to the LORD God of their fathers.
2Ch 35:3 And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build; it shall not be a burden upon your shoulders: serve now the LORD your God, and his people Israel,
Ne 8:7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
Ne 8:9 And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.
And this...
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

We do know it was the roman ceasar which gave them power over the people after the temple was destroyed and the new Sanhedrin was located at Yavneh. No longer in the place the Lord had chosen.

Eloy Craft · Apr 15, 2018

Mercymessianicjudiasm said:
No one except Moses sat in his seat.[/QUE]

Nevertheless the Jews and Jesus recognized his authority in the the Pharisees.

Mercymessianicjudiasm · Apr 15, 2018

Eloy Craft said:
Nevertheless the Jews and Jesus recognized his authority in the the Pharisees.

The people saw the hypocrites sleep in the "bed" with the Romans to have the apostles crucified......

Open Heart · Apr 15, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Does Yeshua say to follow Torah or no?

Absolutely, when he answered the rich man how to gain eternal life. However, there is no instance where he singles out separating wool from linen. Nor is there any place in the rest of the NT. I cannot elaborate further, as my views are prohibited by the SOP.

Seat of Moses ?

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