1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

LoveofTruth

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( 12 ) : ” DID CHRIST COME TO SAVE EVERYBODY ? “
September 4, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment


JOHN 18 ( 37 ) : ” FOR THIS CAUSE CAME I INTO THE WORLD , THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH : EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARETH MY VOICE ! ” What does : Everyone that is OF THE TRUTH mean in this verse ? Is not everyone of the truth : Or are just a select few OF THE TRUTH ? Over and over Christ repeated : He that hath ears to hear, let him hear ! Was it not possible for all to hear, or are just a select few enabled to hear ? Christ said that his sheep could hear his voice , but others could not hear his word : JOHN 10 ( 27 ) : ” My sheep hear my voice . ” and JOHN 8 ( 43 ) : ” Why do you not understand my speech , even because you ” CANNOT ” hear my word . ” So then , how are some able to hear, and others CANNOT ? : MATTHEW 11 ( 25 ) : ” I thank thee o father , Lord of heaven and earth , because THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS from the wise and prudent , and HAST REVEALED THEM UNTO BABES . ” and MATTHEW 13 ( 11 ) : ” It is GIVEN UNTO YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven , but TO THEM IT IS NOT GIVEN ! ” Christ clearly said in these verses that God has purposely hidden his truth from some and revealed it unto others . JOHN 12 ( 39&40 ) : ” 39 : ” Therefore THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE , because that Esaias said again . ” 40 : ” HE hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart that they should not see . ” These two verses clearly state that there are those who just CANNOT , not would not , but COULD NOT believe because GOD CLOSED THEIR HEARTS , AND HARDENED THEIR HEARTS ! ” JOHN 6 ( 44 ) : ” No man can come to me EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW HIM . ” and JOHN 6 ( 37 ) : ” ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME shall come to me . ” and PSALMS 65 ( 4 ) : ” Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST AND CAUSEST TO APPROACH UNTO THEE ! ” : These verses clearly state that ONLY THOSE THAT GOD DRAWS OR CHOOSES CAN COME TO CHRIST : NOT EVERYBODY ! CHRIST CLEARLY STATED THAT HE WAS NOT HERE FOR ALL , but only certain chosen ones : JOHN 13 ( 18 ) : ” I speak NOT OF YOU ALL , I know WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN ! ” MATTHEW 22 ( 14 ) : ” Many are called but FEW ARE CHOSEN ! ” : Christ clearly stated here that his people were CHOSEN , and that they were THE FEW , NOT EVERYBODY ! These few chosen are referred to in the bible as THE ELECT : MARK 13 ( 20 ) : ” FOR THE ELECT’S SAKE , WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN. “, and CHRIST CAME HERE ONLY FOR THIS ELECT, and does things ONLY FOR THIS ELECT . NOT THE WHOLE WORLD : MARK 13 ( 20 ) : ” And except that the Lord had shortened those days , no flesh should be saved , but FOR THE ELECT’S SAKE , WHOM HE HATH CHOSEN , he hath shortened the days . ” and MATTHEW 24 ( 31 ) : ” He shall send his angels , and they shall gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds . ” CHRIST PRAYS ONLY FOR HIS ELECT , NOT THE WORLD : JOHN 17 ( 9 ) : ” I pray for THEM , I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD , but for THEM WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME . ” Christ also told us not to give his pearls of truth to everybody but just for his elect : MATTHEW 7 ( 6 ) : ” Give not that which is holy unto the dogs , neither cast ye your pearls before swine . ” He told us go rather to the lost sheep, NOT EVERYBODY ! So this teaching in the main stream churches that Christ loves everybody , and came to save everybody is just another one of their endless lies : ROMANS 9 ( 13&18 ) : 13 : ” As it is written : Jacob have I loved BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED . ” 18 : ” Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will HE HARDENETH . ” If it were true that Christ came to save everybody, this would mean that Christ was a failure because obviously millions reject Christ and are not saved : BUT THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT CHRIST CAME ONLY FOR HIS ELECT , AND NONE OF THEM ARE LOST, AND CHRIST IS A 100% SUCCESS IN HIS TRUE MINISTRY IN HIS ELECT : JOHN 6 ( 39 ) : ” This is the father’s will , that OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD ” LOSE NOTHING ! “
Only a few verses are need to correct this teaching

1 Timothy 4:10
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: [the believers in Christ] and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.[for everyone else]

"6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."(Isaiah 53:6 KJV)

"4 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

"42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."( John 4:42 KJV)

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

Just as very small sample

 
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LoveofTruth

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JOHN 18 ( 37 ) : ” FOR THIS CAUSE CAME I INTO THE WORLD , THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH : EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARETH MY VOICE ! ” What does : Everyone that is OF THE TRUTH mean in this verse ? Is not everyone of the truth : Or are just a select few OF THE TRUTH ?
Christ is the truth and he is the true Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. If they have no love of the truth God gives them over and if they hate the light they are condemned.

Even unbelievers hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 1:18
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"


But they are not "of the truth" or born again, unless they repent and believe.

Christ said that his sheep could hear his voice , but others could not hear his word : JOHN 10 ( 27 ) : ” My sheep hear my voice . ” and JOHN 8 ( 43 ) : ” Why do you not understand my speech , even because you ” CANNOT ” hear my word . ”
The sheep of Jesus that he called to himself, were in many cases already saved by repentance and faith in God's righteousness before they met Jesus. Such as his 12 apostles ( Judas included) we read in John 17 Jesus said of them thine they WERE", they belonged to the father and the Father gave them to Jesus. So when Jesus calls Matthew to follow him and Matthew gets up right away. This happened because he was already an OT saint looking for the righteousness of God and he heard Jesus in his heart.

It doesn't mean what you are trying to make it say John.

JOHN 12 ( 39&40 ) : ” 39 : ” Therefore THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE , because that Esaias said again . ” 40 : ” HE hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart that they should not see . ” These two verses clearly state that there are those who just CANNOT , not would not , but COULD NOT believe because GOD CLOSED THEIR HEARTS , AND HARDENED THEIR HEARTS ! ”

Pharoah hardened his heart and God also hardened his heart. God hardens heart when men believe not and when they hate the light God withdraws from them

"25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up..."(Romans 1:25,26 KJV)

and we read

"
2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
" They had a chance but received it not and had no love of the truth.

also we read

"3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."(2 Cor 4:3,4 KJV)

etc etc etc
 
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sdowney717

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So....what's the difference there? He wishes....but He has another plan? That sounds sort of conflicted to me. Almost like a god that's uncertain....unsure.

And you get excited about a god like that? One that's not very victorious at all. Also....there's that song that's so commonly sung in modern churches, "He Reigns"....how can that be sung with a belief like that, where His desire is only minimally carried out in the end?
Christ says it very clearly about God's will and salvation.

John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

God's will is that He has given some to Christ to be saved, and only some are chosen.
 
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mkgal1

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God's will is that He has given some to Christ to be saved, and only some are chosen.
I agree.....but that doesn't mean that those that weren't His elect will NEVER be saved. He has all of eternity to bring that all about (without going against anyone else's ability to choose for themselves). I believe that...in time, "every knee will bow....every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (just like Phil 2:10-11 says).
 
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ClementofA

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God's desire is that all men everywhere repent and believe and be saved, but that scripture does not say that is His 'WILL'.

No one said it does.

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

True or false?

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).
 
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Der Alte

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I agree.....but that doesn't mean that those that weren't His elect will NEVER be saved. He has all of eternity to bring that all about (without going against anyone else's ability to choose for themselves). I believe that...in time, "every knee will bow....every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (just like Phil 2:10-11 says).
In US prisons the recidivism rate 1s 66+%. Of every 1000 prisoners released from prison more than 660 will return. Many of them blame everyone but themselves for their fate, judges, lawyers, juries, witnesses, police etc. And many of them seek revenge on those they blame for their fate.
.....After the unrighteous have been punished for an indeterminate period in fire when they are released will they be filled with warm fuzzies and love for God, or will they be like criminals in this life? Scripture please?
 
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sdowney717

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I agree.....but that doesn't mean that those that weren't His elect will NEVER be saved. He has all of eternity to bring that all about (without going against anyone else's ability to choose for themselves). I believe that...in time, "every knee will bow....every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (just like Phil 2:10-11 says).

But where are they making that confession??
Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those under the earth are the wicked dead who are in tormenting hell fire.
They make that confession after they have died from this physical existence.

After you passed on such a confession does not mean salvation. Every created being will be forced to acknowledge to the Lordship of Christ, including fallen angels and demons. Following your reasoning, then all created beings will be saved.
 
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sdowney717

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Hebrews 9, after men die once, the first death, then comes or follows the judgement.

Salvation is only for those who eagerly await Christ's return, which the wicked don't have any interest in seeing happen.

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
 
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mkgal1

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Those under the earth are the wicked dead who are in tormenting hell fire.
They make that confession after they have died from this physical existence.
That is a presupposition that you're importing to the text.

This version, in my opinion, is a better one (it's not about "those" but the entirety of creation....just as Jesus had said, "even the rocks will cry out" that's recorded in Luke 19:40):

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

****************
every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe” giving God “blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever” (Revelation 5:13)



If you would learn more, ask the cattle,
Seek information from the birds of the air.
The creeping things of earth will give you lessons,
And the fishes of the sea will tell you all.
There is not a single creature that does not know
That everything is of God’s making.


God holds in power the soul of every living thing,
And the breath of every human body.


—Book of Job 12:7-10 [1]


 
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sdowney717

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That is a presupposition that you're importing to the text.

This version, in my opinion, is a better one (it's not about "those" but the entirety of creation....just as Jesus had said, "even the rocks will cry out" that's recorded in Luke 19:40):

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Rocks dont get saved either.
 
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mkgal1

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Rocks dont get saved either.
They are part of His creation. The biblical text *does* say they praise Him. I'm not of the belief that He destroys the [literal] earth. I believe the link of "heaven and earth" was the Temple.

----->Quoting from that link: Jews did not always mean “the physical universe” when they spoke of heaven and earth together. In Jewish literature, the Temple was a portal connecting heaven and earth. They called it the “navel of the earth” and the “gateway to heaven” (Jub 8:19; 1 Enoch 26:1). Just like the Mesopotamian Tower in Genesis 11, the Temple connected God’s realm to where humans lived.~When Heaven and Earth Passed Away: Everything Changed
 
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Humble me Lord

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This whole universal salvation idea is very troubling to me.
Does it not negate the reason Jesus died on the cross?
And if a person actually believes it, why spend so much time trying to convince others that it's true?

Matthew 25:46 , “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.
 
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sdowney717

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This whole universal salvation idea is very troubling to me.
Does it not negate the reason Jesus died on the cross?
And if a person actually believes it, why spend so much time trying to convince others that it's true?

Matthew 25:46 , “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.
Only the redeemed of the Lord live. All the others are doomed to destruction. This concept endures throughout old and new covenants.

Leviticus 27:29
No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:8
but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

2 Samuel 7:23
And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people, to make for Himself a name—and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land—before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods?

Job 19:25
For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Luke 1:68
“Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,

Christ saves HIS PEOPLE from their sin.

Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Peter 1:18
knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
 
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mkgal1

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This whole universal salvation idea is very troubling to me.
I'm not sure why it's "troubling" to you. Once I've come to accept it, it's very freeing (and I'm able to love others and allow them to make their own choices much better). I'm able to genuinely believe, "God has this under control".
Does it not negate the reason Jesus died on the cross?
Absolutely not. His incarnation plays a critical part in all this (it's just going to take some people a while to comprehend it).

And if a person actually believes it, why spend so much time trying to convince others that it's true?
Because the alternative has driven a lot of people *away* from God....and, my reason is, that it's important for people to hear about a loving God (they've heard too much about the angry and vengeful god).

The "end goal" as I see it isn't going to heaven....later. I believe it's becoming whole through the healing of love (and that can begin immediately). Instead of a "someday" kind of hope, there's a hope for today.
Matthew 25:46 , “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.
This isn't speaking of an afterlife. It's speaking of the end of the Jewish Temple age....and the beginning of His everlasting Kingdom.
When The Son of Man Comes: the meaning of Matthew 25:31-46

----> Quoting from link above:" the point is that New Exodus has come, and all those found on the side of the crucified Messiah will be redeemed and vindicated together with Him while all those standing against Him will be judged according to his just rule.

If we really take the “already” language of the NT for what it’s worth, then there is no reason — exegetical, experiential, or otherwise — to say that Matthew 25:31-46 shouldn’t be read in the same way as the rest of Matthew’s “son of man” passages, i.e. as speaking of a great judgment and vindication that was to come about within that generation."
 
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Der Alte

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1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?
Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.

…..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will, and man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”
Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.

11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.
 
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ClementofA

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In US prisons the recidivism rate 1s 66+%. Of every 1000 prisoners released from prison more than 660 will return. Many of them blame everyone but themselves for their fate, judges, lawyers, juries, witnesses, police etc. And many of them seek revenge on those they blame for their fate.
.....After the unrighteous have been punished for an indeterminate period in fire when they are released will they be filled with warm fuzzies and love for God, or will they be like criminals in this life? Scripture please?

What was King Nebuchadnezzar's reaction after God made him eat grass like an animal for 7 years? Or Job to the things that happened to him? Or the immoral church member who was given over to Satan for destruction?

Many scriptures show God's punishments in this life are corrective & there's nothing in the Bible saying that He suddenly changes His ways in that regard postmortem.

Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.

Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)

Isaiah 12:1
Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.

Hosea 6:1
"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

Isa.57:17 “Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.

18“I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:

Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.

And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).

Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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ClementofA

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But where are they making that confession??
Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those under the earth are the wicked dead who are in tormenting hell fire.
They make that confession after they have died from this physical existence.

After you passed on such a confession does not mean salvation. Every created being will be forced to acknowledge to the Lordship of Christ, including fallen angels and demons. Following your reasoning, then all created beings will be saved.

Phil.2:9-11 doesn't say - where - anyone will make the confession. Rather it indicates that everyone in the universe will do so.

Under the earth could include those in Hades (both good & evil) & those in graves (both good and evil).

"Appendix II: Every Knee Shall Bow"

"God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph. 2:9-11 NAS). Is this forced worship, or one offered genuinely from the heart? Below are 20 points that together, I believe, unmistakably affirm true worship.  According to Vine, ―bow,‖ (kamptō per Strong‘s 2578, ―to bend‖) is used especially of bending the knees in religious veneration (Ro.11:4, 14:11; Ep. 3:14; Ph. 2:10). [In contrast] sunkamptō signifies… to bend down by compulsory force‖ (Ro. 11:10). 1  The phrase ―confess that Jesus Christ is Lord‖ was used in early baptismal services by which those being baptized expressed their commitment to Christ or declared they had been saved through Christ.2 Now, since ―under the earth‖ refers to the abode of the dead (or hell), then even in death an opportunity remains to confess Christ unto salvation.  ―No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit‖ (1Co. 12:3). This is strong evidence it refers to a sincere worship since fear alone could bring about a forced worship without the need of the Holy Spirit moving the heart.  Paul links mouth confession with salvation. ―If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus…you will be saved…with the mouth confession is made unto salvation‖ (Ro. 10:9).  This worship brings Him glory. A forced worship would not glorify or satisfy a loving God. ―This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me‖ (Mt. 15:8)
 That this is true worship is confirmed in Re. 5:13 and by the entire context (Re. 5: 11-14) if they are related. ―Every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth…I heard saying: ‗Blessing, honor, glory, power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb‘…‖ (Re. 5:13). Why would these two contexts not be related?  The word ―confess‖ in this passage is the same Greek word exomologeomai that Christ used in praising His Father in Mt. 11:25 and Lu. 10:21. It is used 11 times: Mt. 3:6; 11:25; Mk. 1:5; Lu. 10:21; 22:6; Ac. 19:18; Ro. 14:11; 15:9; Ph. 2:11; Ja. 5:16; and Re. 3:5. None of these can be seen as ―forced‖ praise. They relate to what flows naturally from the heart. For example, Jesus exclaimed, ―I heartily praise Thee, Father…that Thou hast hidden these things…‖ (Mt. 11:25 Wey). The NIV and the NAS read, ―I praise you Father.‖ Ro. 15:9 RSV states, ―I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name‖ (See the NIV, NAS, TEV, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, WEY, and so forth). The Englishman‘s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament says exomologeomai is the Greek word used in Psalms for ―praise‖ (yadah) and ―give thanks‖ (hoday) in the Septuagint used in Christ‘s time. Simply reading Psalms confirms the genuine worship of Ph. 2:11.3

" Ken Eckerty in an article titled, ―The Work of the Cross,‖ said: I think it‘s significant that the bowing of every knee and the confessing of every tongue is done ―in‖ the name of Jesus, not ―at‖ as translated by the KJV. Scholars such as Vincent, Robertson, Young, Rotherham, and Bullinger (just to name a few) all say that it is best translated ―in.‖ ―For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I.…‖ Mt.18:20 ―In‖ Christ‘s name implies an ―entering into‖ or an intimacy with His name. Confession ―in‖ His name cannot mean anything but intimacy. 4 To accurately understand Ph. 2:9-11, we must go to the Old Testament from where it is quoted. Let us look closely at Is. 45:21-25: 21.There is no other God beside Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. 22. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. 24. He shall say, ‗Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. 25.In the LORD all the descendents of Israel shall be justified, and shall glory.‘  ―Surely in the LORD I have righteousness‖ (vs. 24). Only a genuine believer could say this. Note that this is stated as an oath (vs. 23), making it especially pertinent.  Those who are incensed against Him shall be ashamed (vs. 24). Being ashamed is usually a positive thing and often a sign of genuine repentance. 2Ch. 30:15; Ezra 9:5-7; Job 19:3; Jer. 6:13-15, 8:12, 12:13, 31:18- 20, Ez. 16:60-63, 36:31-33; 2Th. 3:14-15.

"―All the descendants of Israel shall be justified and shall glory‖ (vs. 25). Justification and glory are undeniable evidences of genuine repentance.  ―Because He delights in mercy. He will again have compassion on us, and will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea (Mic. 7:18-19).‖Is subduing iniquity forcing insincere worship?  ―He is able even to subdue all ―things‖ to Himself (Ph. 3:21).‖ Note: ―things‖ is not in the Greek and that this is said in the very same letter!  ―How awesome are Your works! Through the greatness of Your power Your enemies shall submit themselves to You. All the earth shall worship You and sing praises to You; they shall sing praises to Your name. Selah. Come and see the works of God; He is awesome in His doing toward the sons of men (Ps. 66:3-5).‖ Certainly these passages together with Ph. 2:11 all point to the same glorious worship (Re. 5:13)!

"In Ps. 66:3-5, God is described twice as ―awesome‖ in the very context of ―enemies submitting themselves‖ through His ―great‖ power. And this mind you, is all in the context of ―all the earth‖ worshiping and singing praises to God! David then invites us to come and see how awesome is His doing toward humanity! Where is ―forced‖ worship here? As well, they are ―submitting themselves,‖ not ―being‖ submitted. Relative to Mic. 7:18-19, how can a ―compassionate subduing‖ from a God ―delighting in mercy‖ (in the very context of sins cast away) possibly coincide with a forced worship of those eternally being tormented in hell? Now Ph. 3: 21 is found in the very same letter as our key text, making it particularly pertinent. It affirms that God‘s power is ―even able‖ to do something. ―Even able‖ implies something extraordinarily impressive. A compelled submission by brute force is not particularly impressive. But a God winning the hearts of His enemies through His sacrificial love on the cross—that is impressive! That‘s what makes Him truly a most ―awesome‖ and all powerful God!

"―He humbled Himself…even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him…that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow‖ (Ph. 2:8-9). Every knee bows because of the cross. The word ―therefore‖ links the cross with worship. To deny genuine worship at the foot of the cross is to strip this passage of all its meaning. Worse, it strips the cross of its power to save and insults the Spirit of grace (He. 10:29). Talbott asks: Now just what is the power of the Cross, according to Paul? Is it the power of a conquering hero to compel His enemies to obey Him against their will? If that had been Paul‘s doctrine, it would have been strange indeed, for God had no need of a crucifixion to compel obedience. He was quite capable of doing that all along. God sent His Son into the world, not as a conquering hero, but as a suffering servant; and the power that Jesus unleashed as He bled on the Cross was precisely the power of self-giving love, the power to overcome evil by transforming the wills and renewing the minds of the evil ones themselves. ⁵

"The cross of Christ is the greatest power in the universe because it alone can melt the hearts of God‘s enemies, and make them His friends. As John Milton, the famous 17th century English author wrote, ―Who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe.‖ 6

" Salvation is directly mentioned here. ―Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore…work out your own salvation…for God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure‖ (Ph. 2:11-13). The word ―therefore‖ is very significant, for it links the confession that Jesus is Lord directly with salvation.  God Himself works in them ―to will.‖ Does God working in the hearts of His children to will to do His good pleasure mean only a forced submission? The question is its own refutation.  ―When all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him that God may be all in all‖ (1Co. 15:28). The Greek word for ―subject‖ is the same word applied to Christ. Can it be questioned that Christ‘s submission is not freely given? Moreover, would God be all in subjects forcefully subjugated?  God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name…. What kind of a worship, sincere or genuine, would highly exalt Christ? I know which one would lowly exalt Him.  Finally, some will say, ―Of course they‘ll confess then, it will all be too obvious. There will be no merit to confessing then.‖ But are we saved by merit? Where is boasting? It is excluded (Ro. 3:27). We, as the Church, have stripped this passage of its full glory. The bottom line is the love of God will do what His power alone could never do: conquer the hearts of His enemies and make them His friends.

"Why did I go into such detail over this one verse? Because this passage is very well known, quoted, and even sung about. Sadly, it is not truly appreciated for its glorious meaning. I think any honest reflection of these twenty points must agree with the evidence presented, that Ph. 2:9-11 affirms sincere and heartfelt worship."

For the original version of the above quoted material, please see p.197-200 from:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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ClementofA

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Hebrews 9, after men die once, the first death, then comes or follows the judgement.

Salvation is only for those who eagerly await Christ's return, which the wicked don't have any interest in seeing happen.

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Hebrews 9:27 does not deny postmortem salvation for those who die in unbelief:

Heb.9:27:
Is there salvation after death?
Does Hebrews 9:27 refute universalism?
 
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ClementofA

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Only the redeemed of the Lord live. All the others are doomed to destruction. This concept endures throughout old and new covenants.

Leviticus 27:29
No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:8
but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

2 Samuel 7:23
And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people, to make for Himself a name—and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land—before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods?

Job 19:25
For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Luke 1:68
“Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,

Christ saves HIS PEOPLE from their sin.

Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Peter 1:18
knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

3084 lytróō (cognate with 3083/lytron, "a ransom-price") – properly, to release (set free) by paying the full ransom; "to release, on receipt of ransom" (Vine); (figuratively) to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner – i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor" (Wm. Barclay).

Christ gave Himself as a ransom for the whole world, all mankind:

1 Tim.2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God andmen, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time

487 antílytron (from 473 /antí, "corresponding to, instead of/exchange" and 3083 /lýtron, "ransom-price") – properly, a full ransom, referring to Christ paying the complete purchase-price to secure our freedom (redemption) – i.e. Christ exchanging His eternal righteousness for our sin (cf. Ro 3:26; 2 Cor 5:21).

Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

Conclusion: All will be saved

Supporting verses:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases(THELO) (Psalm 115:3).

Whatever the LORD pleases(THELO), He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

"So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire(THELO), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." (Isaiah 55:11).
 
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Der Alte

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What was King Nebuchadnezzar's reaction after God made him eat grass like an animal for 7 years? Or Job to the things that happened to him? Or the immoral church member who was given over to Satan for destruction?
One believer and one nonbeliever IN THIS LIFE, says nothing about after death. I have read Job he was NOT being punished by God. So Job is not relevant.
Many scriptures show God's punishments in this life are corrective & there's nothing in the Bible saying that He suddenly changes His ways in that regard postmortem.
As you said "in this life". Were all the inhabitants of the world God destroyed in the deluge "corrected?" Was Pharaoh and his army "corrected?" Were the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain, whom God destroyed by fire, "corrected?" Were all the inhabitants of the cities God commanded Israel to destroy "corrected?"

Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us for our many sins.
Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)
Two of God's prophets praying to God for God to return to them. What does this prove about the unrighteous after death?
Isaiah 12:1
Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.
Hosea 6:1
"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

Same as above, says nothing about the fate of the unrighteous after life.

Isa.57:17 “Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.
18“I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,
The problem with uncritically copy/pasting stuff from your pet website is they quote selectively and ignore context. Lets read the next 3 verses.

Isaiah 57:19 creating praise on their lips. Peace, peace, to those far and near," says the LORD. "And I will heal them."
Isaiah 57:20 But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.
Isaiah 57:21 "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."
This is God speaking please quote me a verse or two where God says there will be peace for the wicked after death?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him..
It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:
Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.
And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).
Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
More out-of-context proof texting.
Isaiah 45:23-25
(23) By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
(24) They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.'" All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.
(25) But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him.

 
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