Bible verses on Annihilation?

vincent1986 · Apr 10, 2018

The only trustworthy bible is the King James Version and it says everlasting punishment unlike the new false bibles that say eternal. You cease to exist in the lake of fire.

The7thColporteur · Apr 10, 2018

vincent1986 said:
The only trustworthy bible is the King James [Bible]...

In the English, you got my vote.

mark kennedy · Apr 10, 2018

I found only one puzzling example that torment is forever. Hell as we understand it in the Old Testament is virtually unknown. The word for Hell, γέεννα (geenna), is introduced by the Lord during the Sermon on the Mount. It is used 12 times in the New Testament, 11 times in the synoptic gospels by the Lord himself. The word is actually the name for a valley where the children of Israel used to toss their infant children as a sacrifice to Molech, the practice was known as making your children pass through the fire.

Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. (Outline of Biblical Usage)

There are other passages that describe Hell:

"and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt 13:42)
"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Mat 25:46)
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (1Th. 1:9)
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Heb. 10:39
These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (2Pet. 2:17)
raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (Jude 1:13)
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." (Rev. 2:11)
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev. 19:20)
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10)
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death (Rev 20:14)
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

Notice Rev. 20:10 says they will be tormented forever. Other places the fire is said to burn forever but the appears to be the only place that insists that they are tormented forever, at least in my estimation. I don't see much to argue about here, annihilation is one way of reading the texts in question that one proof text not withstanding. For me the one thing that was intriguing about the subject matter was the connection to Sheol, it's synonymous with the grave.

Grace and peace,
Mark

A_Thinker · Apr 10, 2018

Christian_Follower said:
There are opposites to everything when it comes to God

Light - darkness
Love - hate
Holy - wicked
Saved - lost
Narrow way - broad way
Sheep - goat
Wheat - tares
One way - many ways
Eternally with God - Eternally separated from God

What's the opposite of "eternal life" ?

Christian_Follower said:
Dont over think this and dont be fooled by those who say the wicked will cease to exist.. When we do that we call God a liar.

Where does God say that the wicked will exist eternally ?

Christian_Follower said:
Besides Christ spoke more on hell then heaven, i wonder why?

Are you sure ?

Best check your electronic bible ...

Did Jesus speak more about Hell than about Heaven?

CGL1023 · Apr 10, 2018

tampasteve said:
I do not hold to annihilationism, but could believe it is real. In the end it does not matter to me since I believe Christ has saved me. But a few verses used by SDA (probably one of the largest groups that believes in annihilation):

Rev. 21:8 “The cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death”

The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible because the Bible says God “alone has immortality” 1 Timothy 6:16
you

I looked up 1 Tim 6:16 because I didn't recognize the verse you shared.
From the KJV we see that that same verse is,

"16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Why is there such a difference? I don't want to read in every translation til I find the one matching what you wrote.

Der Alte · Apr 10, 2018

mark kennedy said:
begin[/quote]I found only one puzzling example that torment is forever. Hell as we understand it in the Old Testament is virtually unknown. The word for Hell, γέεννα (geenna), is introduced by the Lord during the Sermon on the Mount. It is used 12 times in the New Testament, 11 times in the synoptic gospels by the Lord himself. The word is actually the name for a valley where the children of Israel used to toss their infant children as a sacrifice to Molech, the practice was known as making your children pass through the fire.

Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. (Outline of Biblical Usage)
There are other passages that describe Hell:"and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt 13:42)

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Mat 25:46)

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (1Th. 1:9)

But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Heb. 10:39

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (2Pet. 2:17)

raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (Jude 1:13)

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." (Rev. 2:11)

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev. 19:20)

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10)

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death (Rev 20:14)

"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

Notice Rev. 20:10 says they will be tormented forever. Other places the fire is said to burn forever but the appears to be the only place that insists that they are tormented forever, at least in my estimation. I don't see much to argue about here, annihilation is one way of reading the texts in question that one proof text not withstanding. For me the one thing that was intriguing about the subject matter was the connection to Sheol, it's synonymous with the grave.Grace and peace,

Mark

end

Click to expand...

One major problem with this post is Gehenna was never used for a dump where trash or bodies were burned.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1

Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
Clarification: There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. I am addressing only the belief stated above, Any other beliefs are not relevant to this response.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);

Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators.

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link:Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link:Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

When Jesus taught about,

•“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24

These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. A fate worse than death is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Jesus knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, when Jesus taught about man’s eternal fate, such as eternal punishment, He would have corrected them. Jesus did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell must have been correct.

[/QUOTE]

A_Thinker · Apr 10, 2018

1 Corinthians 15:53-55 King James Version (KJV)

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

A_Thinker · Apr 10, 2018

tampasteve said:
I looked up 1 Tim 6:16 because I didn't recognize the verse you shared.
From the KJV we see that that same verse is,

"16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Why is there such a difference? I don't want to read in every translation til I find the one matching what you wrote.

GCL 1023 said:
The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible because the Bible says God “alone has immortality” 1 Timothy 6:16

This sounds like a commentary on 1 Timothy 6:16 ...

tampasteve · Apr 10, 2018

CGL1023 said:
I looked up 1 Tim 6:16 because I didn't recognize the verse you shared.
From the KJV we see that that same verse is,

"16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Why is there such a difference? I don't want to read in every translation til I find the one matching what you wrote.

I'm not sure that I see the difference. Verse 16 in the KJV "who only hath immortality..." or ESV (which is the same as the quoted passage):
16 "who alone has immortality,....."
They are both speaking of Jesus, who is God.

A_Thinker said:
This sounds like a commentary on 1 Timothy 6:16 ...

Yes, from the SDA group led by Doug Batchelor " Amazing Facts". I should have cited it, my mistake. I'll try and remember to adjust it later on a PC (on my phone now).

*edit, wrong author, not Doug Benson...he's a comedian

The7thColporteur · Apr 10, 2018

tampasteve said:
...Yes, from the SDA group led by Doug Benson " Amazing Facts"....

I think you mean Doug Batchelor - [I know him, sorta].

tampasteve · Apr 10, 2018

The7thColporteur said:
I think you mean Doug Batchelor - [I know him, sorta].

Doh! Yep, thanks

fixed in post

The7thColporteur · Apr 10, 2018

tampasteve said:
Doh! Yep, thanks fixed in post

No worries.

Christian_Follower · Apr 10, 2018

Ok, devils advocate..... If the lost are destroyed and no longer exist after then live it up and do whatever you want because the worst God can do is erase you from existence, hence no pain and no suffering

Christian_Follower · Apr 10, 2018

The7thColporteur · Apr 10, 2018

Christian_Follower said:
Ok, devils advocate..... If the lost are destroyed and no longer exist after then live it up and do whatever you want because the worst God can do is erase you from existence, hence no pain and no suffering

They will receive a reward for all the things done in the body at the resurrection of condemnation. Terrible, terrible is their reward, the suffering will be incalculable by human standards. They will suffer greatly, some a short time, some much longer. Yet, the wages of sin is death. God is merciful, just and love.

God's own mercy is seen in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is merciful to end the life of the miserable sinner rather than to let them suffer forever in sin. Sin has a limit:

God's mercy is extended only for a period of time, and is not without limit. God is "long-suffering", not endlessly suffering [which is another reason to know He does not believe in eternal torments].

Exodus 34:6 KJB- And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

For instance, God was longsuffering with Pharaoh. God was longsuffering with King Saul. God was longsuffering with Judas. God was longsuffering with Cain. God was longsuffering with Lucifer.

Matthew 17:17 KJB - Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

Our Father which art in Heaven is full of mercy and compassion, but He is also just and righteous and holy:

Numbers 14:27 KJB - How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me? I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel, which they murmur against me.

God has indeed multitude of tender mercies, yet God has set a time for each and also neither is His anger forever [again another reason to understand God's character in the matter of the destruction of the wicked, and not their eternal tormenting]:

Psalms 79:5 KJB - How long, LORD? wilt thou be angry for ever? shall thy jealousy burn like fire?

Notice:

Romans 2:4 KJB - Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Romans 2:5 KJB - But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Romans 2:6 KJB - Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

2 Peter 3:8 KJB - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:9 KJB - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 KJB - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Sin has a limited time, and is living on borrowed time:

James 1:15 KJB - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Act 14:16 KJB - Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Act 17:26 KJB - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Act 17:27 KJB - That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Act 17:30 KJB - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 17:31 KJB - Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Did the global flood of Noah kill all of the finally impentient outside of the Ark in one single instant of time?, or was there not rather various lengths of time, and degrees of injuries sustained throughout, that people continued to receive and live through, until all were finally destroyed from the face of the earth? with some instantly perishing, and others taking days to finally die either by beast, other men attempting to escape their doom fighting for the highest ground, starvation, thirst, hurling and heaving earth, or finally drown beneath the black depths ...

In 2 Peter 2:5 [see also 2 Peter 3:6] KJB, Peter says "flood upon the world", yet in the Koine Greek, it is "κατακλυσμον κοσμω", a 'cosmic cataclysm'. Such devastation and destruction as has never been known, and will never again be known [by water], but will again be by fire. If one were to read Genesis 7-8 KJB carefully they will see that it took some time for all [human-kind] outside of the ark to finally perish, and not all perished at the same time. The wages for sin is death, even from Genesis 2:17 KJB, but the final punishment, being death, is preceded by terrors, anguish, torment, all limited and depending upon the deeds done in the body [Romans 2:6; jude 1:15 KJB], as it is written.

So to die of thirst in such a cataclysm takes several days, while being crushed by a large piece of exploded land, or tree, or debris is near instantaneous. Each is just. Each received the length of time in torment, suffering, that was due, and both received the final end, death.

I provided the scripture, now please consider a magnified look:

Consider carefully:

"... His mercy was not weakness, but a terrible power to punish sin because it is sin, yet a power to draw to it the love of humanity.”—7 Bible Commentary, 935-936 - SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7 (EGW), Page 935 -- Ellen G. White Writings

"... “In mercy to the world, God blotted out its wicked inhabitants in Noah’s time. In mercy He destroyed the corrupt dwellers in Sodom. Through the deceptive power of Satan the workers of iniquity obtain sympathy and admiration, and are thus constantly leading others to rebellion. It was so in Cain’s and Noah’s day, and in the time of Abraham and Lot; it is so in our time. It is mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace.”—Great Controversy, 543 - The Great Controversy, Page 543 -- Ellen G. White Writings

As it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be ...

Consider:

"... the Flood would never come. Notwithstanding the solemn scenes which they had witnessed—the beasts and birds entering the ark, and the angel of God closing the door—they still continued their sport and revelry, even making a jest of these signal manifestations of God's power. They gathered in crowds about the ark, deriding its inmates with a daring violence which they had never ventured upon before.

But upon the eighth day dark clouds overspread the heavens. There followed the muttering of thunder and the flash of lightning. Soon large drops of rain began to fall. The world had never witnessed anything like this, and the hearts of men were struck with fear. All were secretly inquiring, “Can it be that Noah was in the right, and that the world is doomed to destruction?” Darker and darker grew the heavens, and faster came the falling rain. The beasts were roaming about in the wildest terror, and their discordant cries seemed to moan out their own destiny and the fate of man. Then “the fountains of the great deep” were “broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.” Water appeared to come from the clouds in mighty cataracts. Rivers broke away from their boundaries, and overflowed the valleys. Jets of water burst from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and these, in falling, buried themselves deep in the ground.

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction.

As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God, [page 99-100] charging Him with injustice and cruelty. Many of the people, like Satan, blasphemed God, and had they been able, they would have torn Him from the throne of power. Others were frantic with fear, stretching their hands toward the ark and pleading for admittance. But their entreaties were in vain. Conscience was at last aroused to know that there is a God who ruleth in the heavens. They called upon Him earnestly, but His ear was not open to their cry. In that terrible hour they saw that the transgression of God's law had caused their ruin. Yet while, through fear of punishment, they acknowledged their sin, they felt no true contrition, no abhorrence of evil. They would have returned to their defiance of Heaven, had the judgment been removed. So when God's judgments shall fall upon the earth before its deluge by fire, the impenitent will know just where and what their sin is—the despising of His holy law. Yet they will have no more true repentance than did the old-world sinners.

Some in their desperation endeavored to break into the ark, but the firm-made structure withstood their efforts. Some clung to the ark until they were borne away by the surging waters, or their hold was broken by collision with rocks and trees. The massive ark trembled in every fiber as it was beaten by the merciless winds and flung from billow to billow. The cries of the beasts within expressed their fear and pain. But amid the warring elements it continued to ride safely. Angels that excel in strength were commissioned to preserve it.

The beasts, exposed to the tempest, rushed toward man, as though expecting help from him. Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful animals, knowing that these were tenacious of life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising waters. Some fastened themselves to lofty trees on the summit of hills or mountains; but the trees were uprooted, and with their burden of living beings were hurled into the seething billows. One spot after another that promised safety was abandoned. As the waters rose higher and higher, the people fled for refuge to the loftiest mountains. Often man and beast would struggle together for a foothold, until both were swept away.

From the highest peaks men looked abroad upon a shoreless ocean. The solemn warnings of God's servant no longer seemed a subject for ridicule and scorning. How those doomed sinners longed for the opportunities which they had slighted! ..." - Patriarchs and Prophets, pages 99-100 - Patriarchs and Prophets, Page 99

marineimaging · Apr 11, 2018

DW1980 said:
Hi

I am curious about how people who support annihilation rather than an eternal conscious hell read the Bible. For example, a pastor of a Church I used to attend said while he believed in a conscious eternal hell, it was possible to read the Bible in a way that supported annihilation. I am curious about this.

There are a few threads on this already but a lot contain things like "I don't think that God would...". It would be good if we could keep this to the Bible with just brief explanations of relevant verses.

If you believe that hell is not a place of conscious punishment, what verses in the Bible teach this?

How do you understand verses that do seem to teach eternal conscious punishment?

There is a reason I am asking this, I'll explain - my dad was not a Christian when he died. Obviously I don't like the idea of my dad burning in hell for eternity - but I do trust God, I know He will do the right thing. I don't believe hell is literal fire, but I do think it is eternal and conscious. That said, annihilation seems kinder (by human standards) and I know some Christians do believe that. I'd like to understand how you get to that from the Bible, especially if you're an Evangelical Christian who holds that view.

Thanks

The Bible is clear (to me) that we are all bound toward hell since the first sin. The key word to the way I learned and know to be a primary element in this conversation is "justice". Is our God just or is he unjust? Is justice real or is it simply a concept to be decided by each individual. Does justice apply to all or does it only apply to a few exceptional people? Justice is not for us to decide because it is and will always be pure and incorruptible. It is as real as God and exists in the same realm as our soul.

Before that day in the Garden men did not know what sin was and in that manner we were not subject to hell. When Adam took the apple he "knew" what sin was. Because of justice he then set the wheels in motion for all men to know and with that knowledge - came choice.

Over this time (no matter thousands or millions of years) did mankind constantly seek to serve God or did we constantly seek to serve self? Think of the chances God gave mankind. Over and over again man turned his back on God. From the beginning in the times of Noah man had become so full of sin he was not redeemable. Sodom and Gomorrah were filled with so much sin that the cities were not redeemable leaving God to either let them go on as they were, or destroy them. "What kind of God" would have left them to live in their filth and sin and without justice being served?

Pharaohs sought self elevation and corrupted the people and enslaved Israel to exalt themselves. Seeing the scene played out right in front of them, seeing all that God did to bring them out of Egypt as a free people to live in the blessings of God, all it took was a few days time while Moses was up the mountain and the majority of Israel turned its back on God again and turned back to its corruption.

Rome lived in its corruption. Today we still live in corruption with the knowledge of God right there on the table in front of us. In that justice is real then how can God let disobedience and debauchery and sin and immorality and hatred and murderers and harlot-mongers and yes, even our daddy's be rewarded equal to those who believe and obey and follow the word of God with pure and absolute love? Is justice real and where and how does it fit if we are all the same. If so - how can there be right and wrong?

Still, God does not send any of us to hell. WE CHOOSE hell over heaven. WE CHOOSE to live in disobedience. WE CHOOSE to to walk away from God. I do not know the hearts of other men but I do know the day God made the offer to me and I made MY CHOICE. I do not know the hearts and souls of other men but I understand that God makes that very same offer to every man and woman. It isn't made and spelled out in the English or Hebrew or Chinese or Russian language. It is that God presents to us the offer. It is the offer to WANT to be righteous. It is that hole we keep talking needing to be filled in our chest.

We don't even need to know what righteous is at that moment. All we need is to WANT to be right. When we DESIRE to be honest and truthful and upright, God will lead us the rest of the way. When that offer is made and man chooses to be self serving and sinful for all pleasures and wanton and lustful and gluttonous and that becomes the center of his day and his desire, he has chosen hell. I don't know what a mans heart and soul says to God on that day. I don't know what it is that some are given that choice at 9 years old and others seem to never know it until they are 90 years old. That isn't for me to be concerned about. I don't know what your dad thought in that day and hour and minute no more than I know what mine thinks today as he lays in a nursing home. All I know is that I have to forgive him and I know that he has been given every chance to know God. What he does in his final hour is not my choice. It is not even Gods choice. It is his and his alone. May God lead you to peace in your journey. It isn't pleasant to think of our parents or spouses choosing hell as their finality. But it is the choice they make. Because if God demanded we choose HIM, we would be slaves and justice would not call for or need a heaven or hell.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 11, 2018

DW1980 said:
Hi

I am curious about how people who support annihilation rather than an eternal conscious hell read the Bible. For example, a pastor of a Church I used to attend said while he believed in a conscious eternal hell, it was possible to read the Bible in a way that supported annihilation. I am curious about this.

There are a few threads on this already but a lot contain things like "I don't think that God would...". It would be good if we could keep this to the Bible with just brief explanations of relevant verses.

If you believe that hell is not a place of conscious punishment, what verses in the Bible teach this?

How do you understand verses that do seem to teach eternal conscious punishment?

There is a reason I am asking this, I'll explain - my dad was not a Christian when he died. Obviously I don't like the idea of my dad burning in hell for eternity - but I do trust God, I know He will do the right thing. I don't believe hell is literal fire, but I do think it is eternal and conscious. That said, annihilation seems kinder (by human standards) and I know some Christians do believe that. I'd like to understand how you get to that from the Bible, especially if you're an Evangelical Christian who holds that view.

Thanks

First, I used to believe in Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) and even defended it on another Christian forum. But in time, after much study, I realized that both Scripture and morality support Conditional Immorality (CI). The hardest thing for me was to accept when I later was on the fence between ECT and CI was that could the majority of Bible believing churches be wrong?

Second, the majority of God's Word does not specifically say that the wicked will burn alive in flames for all time. Revelation 14:10-11 is the only passage that appears to say that at first glance (of which I explain below). Inferences or assumptions are made on the words used within a select few small verses (without looking at how those words are used elsewhere in Scripture).

Three, the fire is "everlasting" and or "unquenchable" for the amount of time that the Lake of Fire exists. But the Lake of Fire will not exist for all eternity. How so? Well, in the future, "...God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4). "...for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;.." (Revelation 21:1). The Lake of Fire is a part of the old heavens and old Earth and not the New Heavens and New Earth.

But how can the words like "forever" and "everlasting" be used in a temporal sense?

Well, in the Bible, we see the word "forever" clearly used in a temporal sense in Philemon 1:15.
For it says,

"For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;"
(Philemon 1:15 KJV).

This is talking about Onesimus. Here is what it says in the New Living Translation,

15 "It seems you lost Onesimus for a little while so that you could have him back forever.
16 He is no longer like a slave to you. He is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord."
(Philemon 1:15-16 NLT).

In other words, Onesimus did not return to his master for all eternity here upon this Earth. Onesimus is not still alive. He is not an immortal or anything of that nature. He was mortal and he died. So to assume that the word "forever" and it's related words always means forever does not work. Meaning, one has to re-examine what they believe the word "forever" means.

But what about words like "for ever and ever"? Surely this must be talking about an endless eternity, right? Again, this would not be true according to the Bible. For Jeremiah 7 says,

"Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever." (Jeremiah 7:7).

Are we to assume that certain faithful Old Testament saints will dwell in the land here upon this Earth forever and ever while the rest of the saints dwell upon the New Earth? Surely not. "For ever and ever" is used in context to how long that promise will be fulfilled and will last (Which would be with the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ).

Are you still not convinced?

There are other examples where the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible.

Take Revelation 14:11 as an example.

It tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Yet is the city of Edom burning today? No, of course not. So we then realize that this phrase is speaking metaphorically.

In other words,, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can be talking about "forever" here on this Earth (as long as someone lives) or in having a sense of "completeness" or "totality" for a specific thing). For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?

• In Genesis 13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.

• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Exodus 12:24; Exodus 27:21; Exodus 28:43).

• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 1:7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezekiel 16:53-55).

• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jeremiah 30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).

• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Micah 1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ezekiel 16:53).

• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zephaniah 2:9, Jeremiah 25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jeremiah 49:6).

• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3):

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Habakkuk 3:6).

• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.

• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Hebrews 4:8-9).

• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians 3:11-13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).

• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6-10; Jonah 1:17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jeremiah 25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ezekiel 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jeremiah 49:39).

• "Moab is destroyed" (Jeremiah 48:4, Jeremiah 48:42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jeremiah 48:47).

• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).

• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.

• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in 2 Corinthians 4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 1:15 (as mentioned above) where it is contrasted with “for a while.”

Here is the source for list above for the Scriptural examples used on the word "forever":
http://www.apttoteach.org/attjom/index.php

Side Note:

But what about those who worship the beast as not having rest day and night in Revelation 14:11? Well, this is saying that those who worship the beast will have no rest day and night WHILE or DURING the TIME they worship the beast. For Revelation 16:2 says they had painful boils.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 11, 2018

DW1980 said:
Hi

I am curious about how people who support annihilation rather than an eternal conscious hell read the Bible. For example, a pastor of a Church I used to attend said while he believed in a conscious eternal hell, it was possible to read the Bible in a way that supported annihilation. I am curious about this.

There are a few threads on this already but a lot contain things like "I don't think that God would...". It would be good if we could keep this to the Bible with just brief explanations of relevant verses.

If you believe that hell is not a place of conscious punishment, what verses in the Bible teach this?

How do you understand verses that do seem to teach eternal conscious punishment?

There is a reason I am asking this, I'll explain - my dad was not a Christian when he died. Obviously I don't like the idea of my dad burning in hell for eternity - but I do trust God, I know He will do the right thing. I don't believe hell is literal fire, but I do think it is eternal and conscious. That said, annihilation seems kinder (by human standards) and I know some Christians do believe that. I'd like to understand how you get to that from the Bible, especially if you're an Evangelical Christian who holds that view.

Thanks

Following the Millennium, & the Judgment: On the New Earth, after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven, the...

Saints Witness the Lifeless Remains of the Wicked:

The Saints View The Lifeless Remains (i.e. Corpses) of the Wicked:

• Isaiah 66:22-24

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

For the Final Fate of the Wicked is Destruction (or Annihiation):

• 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."

• Malachi 4:1-3

“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.”

• 2 Peter 2:6 NHEB

"...and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, having made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly.”

• Psalms 68:2

"....as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God."

• Job 4:8-9

“Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same. By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.”

• Psalms 92:7 NLT

"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish, they will be destroyed forever."

• Deuteronomy 7:10

“And repays them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hates him, he will repay him to his face.”

• Psalms 1:6

“For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.”

• Matthew 10:28

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [i.e. Gehenna or Lake of Fire].”

• Revelation 21:8

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

The Final Fate of the Wicked Also Includes the Annihilation or:

A. Destruction of the Devil:

• Isaiah 14:12, Isaiah 14:19

12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” 19 “....thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.”

‭‭

• Ezekiel 28:14-15, Ezekiel 28:18

“Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.”

“Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.”

B. Destruction of the Entity Known As "Death":

• 1 Corinthians 15:26

“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death”

...

Bible Highlighter · Apr 11, 2018

DW1980 said:
There are a few threads on this already but a lot contain things like "I don't think that God would...". It would be good if we could keep this to the Bible with just brief explanations of relevant verses.

When people say things like, "I don't think God would...", sometimes it is truly their conscience talking in light of the truth of God's Word. How so? Well, ....

God is into Fair Justice.

"Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny."
(Matthew 5:25-26).

If the God of ECT was true, the above verse would say: Truly, I tell you, you will never get out and no amount of money you will ever pay will release you because of your sins done against me. But that's not what Matthew 5:25-26 says.

Luke 12:48 also confirms God is into fair justice, as well.

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48).

If the God of ECT was true, then all wicked people will be beaten equally for all eternity regardless of whether they committed things worthy of stripes or not.

Der Alte · Apr 11, 2018

Jason0047 said:
Following the Millennium, & the Judgment: On the New Earth, after the city of New Jerusalem comes down from out of Heaven, the...
Saints Witness the Lifeless Remains of the Wicked:
The Saints View The Lifeless Remains (i.e. Corpses) of the Wicked:
• Isaiah 66:22-24

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

Will the ashes of the unrighteous be in heaven and will the saints in heaven be looking at them for all eternity? Or when we read the verse in-context will we find that it refers to something that happens on one day in this life?

For the Final Fate of the Wicked is Destruction (or Annihiation):
• 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."
• Malachi 4:1-3

“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.”
• 2 Peter 2:6 NHEB

"...and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, having made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly.”
• Psalms 68:2
"....as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God."
• Job 4:8-9

“Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same. By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.”
• Psalms 92:7 NLT

"Though the wicked sprout like weeds and evildoers flourish, they will be destroyed forever."
• Deuteronomy 7:10

“And repays them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hates him, he will repay him to his face.”
• Psalms 1:6

“For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.”
• Matthew 10:28

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [i.e. Gehenna or Lake of Fire].”
• Revelation 21:8

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

The Final Fate of the Wicked Also Includes the Annihilation or:

A. Destruction of the Devil:
• Isaiah 14:12, Isaiah 14:19

12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” 19 “....thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.”
• Ezekiel 28:14-15, Ezekiel 28:18

“Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.”
B. Destruction of the Entity Known As "Death":
• 1 Corinthians 15:26

“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death”

The word translated destroyed/destruction is ἀπόλλυμι/Apollumi. It occurs 90 times in the NT, of this 68 times, 76%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.
(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

ἀπόλλυμι for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).
1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; [kill] the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26,3 (cf.Sir 20:22).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).
2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a. of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ [die] of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. o[fewn killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12
. Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son [who has returned]Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.
BAG Greek Lexicon online

Bible verses on Annihilation?

Member

Well-Known Member

Natura non facit saltum

Well-Known Member

citizen of heaven

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Pray for peace in Israel

Well-Known Member

Pray for peace in Israel

Well-Known Member

http://seekingbiblicaltruth.weebly.com

http://seekingbiblicaltruth.weebly.com

Well-Known Member

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Similar threads