WHY IS DANIEL 9:24-27 ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE ?

jgr · Apr 10, 2018

Quasar92 said:
Your so called timeline of the New Covenant does not begin until Jesus introduces itm as recorded in Lk.22:20 . Post #85 refutes you!

Quasar92

You still haven't addressed the grammatical/syntactical issue.

Messiah the Prince is undeniably the only individual specifically identified in the passage. Therefore, all of the "he's" in verse 27 must refer to Him.

Therefore, everything which it is said that "he" will do must refer to Him.

Antichrist is nowhere seen.

TribulationSigns · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
The actual Dan.9:24 prophecy was about Jerusalem and Daniel's people, not the Gentile nations.

Incorrect. You need to compare Scripture with Scripture carefully regarding Daniel's people:

Daniel 9:24
[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,...

First, the 70 weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE. The question is, who is Daniel's people? We need to go no further than the preceding verses:

Daniel 9:20
[20] And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

So, "thy people" of Daniel 9:24, refers to the people of Israel, agreed? Now the next question is, which Israel? Let read the rest of verse 24:

Daniel 9:24
[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This is what Daniel means by making an end of sins and that reconciliation is made for iniquity. For who? Obviously, it is for His People, Israel. This verse 24 of Daniel chapter 9 is clearly speaking of the Messiah's atonement for the sins of Israel, by the work of the cross. Agreed? Now let verify with Luke who wrote about this:

Luke 1:68-70

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"

This is the prophecy is fulfilled as Daniel's people Israel has their Messiah come, that their sins would be closed up (or come to an end), and that reconciliation would be made. And that is exactly what Christ, who was Israel's Messiah, did. Moreover...

Hebrews 2:17

"Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of The People."

The same as the Prophesy we read in Daniel!! That Messiah would come for the reconciliation of the sins of His people. Not the Jews only, but the Gentiles as well! And this was fulfilled in Christ's atonement for His People who is also Daniel's people! As a Gentile but spiritually Jews in Christ, Daniel is also one of my people! In Christ! Is the covenant not for the Jews and national Israel only? It is for His People, "Covenant" Israel!

Rome did have a part, i.e., about the prince that would come to destroy the city and sanctuary (70 A.D.).

Daniel 9:26
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

God never mentioned about evil prince here! The prince of verse 26 is still the Messiah the Prince according to the context! The people of the prince at the time of the Cross, were the Jews! Didn't you read the Scripture:

John 2:18-21

[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus gave them a sign that THE JEWS will be the ones, not the Roman, who will destroy temple which represents Christ's body, the congregation of Israel! It is His people, Israel, who will come and destroy the city and the sanctuary as a REPRESENTATIVE of God's Kingdom, because of their rejection of the Messiah the prince!

Matthew 21:42-43

[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

See? God has taken the kingdom from the Jews and gave to another. Who? Remember, Jesus said he will rebuild the temple in three days? Where will that temple be? This is where the kingdom was given to!

Ephesians 2:16-22

[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This is the temple that Christ rebuilt after the Jews have destroyed him! Along with the death of the Messiah, the kingdom was taken away from old testament congregation (body of Christ's temple) and gave to New Testament congregation (rebuilt body of Christ's temple). This is PEOPLE whom Christ has died FOR! Not for Himself! You, me, Daniel, John, Peter, etc. are all one in Christ. THIS is the Covenant that Christ has confirmed or made strengthen FOR THIS PEOPLE which is much BETTER than that of Abel! Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Hebrews 12:24

[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

And Christ did confirm this covenant with his blood in Daniel 9:27!

Those who have ears, let him hear!

This has NOTHING to do with Roman Titus, Antichrist, 70AD or 7 years peace treaty with national Israel!

...He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

What about the flood of verse 26?

This is the warfare spoken of in Daniel 9. This is the flood (overflowing) upon Israel of which at the end of it, desolations are determined. As it was written, and as Jesus said, 'Behold, your house is left unto you desolate!' Don't be misled by the word flood, it's meaning can be seen in verses such as Isaiah 8:8, or Daniel 11:10. A excellent verse to get a feel for what this means is Daniel 11:26. When the Bible talks about an army, war, and the flood or overflowing. This is what is in view. It means it is a great overflowing army in this war. The armies are those who fought against Christ, and to the end of the war, they are left desolate and cut off, but to a remnant, he returns with Mercies.

Was there war at the cross? Indeed there was. When the Bible says that they were all against Christ, that is War. To be at enmity against Christ, is to be at war with Him. Just as to be reconciled in Christ, is to be at Peace with Him. The Flood is the overwhelming or overflowing of those who came against Christ. There was none that stood with Him. We see this in Messianic Psalms, such as:

Psalms 69:2

"I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the FLOODS OVERFLOW Me. I am weary of crying: My throat is dry: Mine eyes fail while I wait for My God. They that hate me without a cause (John 15:25) are more than the hairs of Mine head: They that would destroy Me, being Mine enemies wrongfully are mighty:..."

This is the overflowing flood of the army that came against Christ, and which made an end of City and Sanctuary. It's those who fought against the Messiah, His Enemies, those that Hated Him. They were as a Flood. And they made war until the end, and desolations were determined upon old testament congregation for rejection of their Messiah. They are judged of God. Blindness had happened to them. The Prophet and the vision is sealed. In fact, the verse we saw in Acts 15 of rebuilding the tabernacle of David from it's ruins, is taken from the Book of Amos.

Amos 9:11

"In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old."

When Acts says this scripture is fulfilled (Acts 15:16) as it is written, it tells us that we don't have to look elsewhere for the fulfillment. It is fulfilled in Christ. Again, notice the language of verse 5 when talking about this judgment of Israel.

Amos 9:5

"And the Lord God of hosts is He that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a FLOOD: and shall be drowned, as by the FLOOD of Egypt."

At the cross, Christ freed us from bondage to Satan just as God freed Israel from bondage to Pharaoh. And as the armies who fought against Israel were drowned then, so those who fight against Israel (Christ) at the cross come up like a flood, and are drowned in God's judgment. It is God who has left this city desolate because of their warfare with him. They would destroy the City and the Temple, and God will bring judgment upon them, and raise it up again in 3 days. He will build again the tabernacle that is fallen, and raise again the ruins, with living bricks - Saints! Not literal bricks. Merciful God returns with compassion, to the rebuilding of the tabernacle.

TribulationSigns · Apr 10, 2018

jgr said:
You still haven't addressed the grammatical/syntactical issue.

Messiah the Prince is undeniably the only individual specifically identified in the passage. Therefore, all of the "he's" in verse 27 must refer to Him.

Therefore, everything which it is said that "he" will do must refer to Him.

Antichrist is nowhere seen.

Amen!

Davy · Apr 10, 2018

The Times said:
Where is Messiah's covenant, concerning the 70th week prophecy?

It's not in Daniel 9 nor Daniel 11, that's for sure.

Davy · Apr 10, 2018

claninja said:
Let’s use scripture to interpret scripture first.

Did Jesus predict the destruction of Jerusalem? He in fact did:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luke 21:20,22 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:20, Luke 21:22 - English Standard Version

43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Luke 19:43-44 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 19:43-44 - English Standard Version

No specific date or hour of Israel’s destruction is given in scripture, but Jesus says it will be during his generation.

35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:35-36 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:35-36 - English Standard Version

40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
Matthew 21:40-41,43,45 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:40-41, Matthew 21:43, Matthew 21:45 - English Standard Version

From our perspective by historical records , we know israel was destroyed during Jesus’ generation by the Romans

Hebrew parallelism: A=A, B=B

And after the sixty-two weeks, A.)an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. B.)And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. A.) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. B.)And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
Daniel 9:26-27 - Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 9:26-27 - English Standard Version

That interpretation of Christ's Olivet Discourse comes from not understanding that the not one stone on top of another prophecy is a dual fulfillment prophecy. It applied to Jerusalem's destruction in 70 A.D. by the Romans as 'blueprint', the blueprint being for the final siege and destruction of Jerusalem at the end of this world. That's why the signs Jesus gave there align with the Seals of Revelation 6 and why He proclaimed the generation that sees those things will not end until all those signs are complete. The last sign He gave was that of His second coming.

Today in Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall of huge stones at the base of the Temple Mount still stands, revealing that the 70 A.D. destruction was not complete, but a type of the future destruction there to come when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives when He returns (Zech.14).

Davy · Apr 10, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Incorrect. You need to compare Scripture with Scripture carefully regarding Daniel's people:

Daniel 9:24
[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,...

First, the 70 weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE. The question is, who is Daniel's people? We need to go no further than the preceding verses:

Daniel 9:20
[20] And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

So, "thy people" of Daniel 9:24, refers to the people of Israel, agreed? Now the next question is, which Israel? Let read the rest of verse 24:

Daniel 9:24
[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This is what Daniel means by making an end of sins and that reconciliation is made for iniquity. For who? Obviously, it is for His People, Israel. This verse 24 of Daniel chapter 9 is clearly speaking of the Messiah's atonement for the sins of Israel, by the work of the cross. Agreed? Now let verify with Luke who wrote about this:

Luke 1:68-70

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"

This is the prophecy is fulfilled as Daniel's people Israel has their Messiah come, that their sins would be closed up (or come to an end), and that reconciliation would be made. And that is exactly what Christ, who was Israel's Messiah, did. Moreover...

Hebrews 2:17

"Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of The People."

The same as the Prophesy we read in Daniel!! That Messiah would come for the reconciliation of the sins of His people. Not the Jews only, but the Gentiles as well! And this was fulfilled in Christ's atonement for His People who is also Daniel's people! As a Gentile but spiritually Jews in Christ, Daniel is also one of my people! In Christ! Is the covenant not for the Jews and national Israel only? It is for His People, "Covenant" Israel!

Daniel 9:26
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

God never mentioned about evil prince here! The prince of verse 26 is still the Messiah the Prince according to the context! The people of the prince at the time of the Cross, were the Jews! Didn't you read the Scripture:

John 2:18-21
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Jesus gave them a sign that THE JEWS will be the ones, not the Roman, who will destroy temple which represents Christ's body, the congregation of Israel! It is His people, Israel, who will come and destroy the city and the sanctuary as a REPRESENTATIVE of God's Kingdom, because of their rejection of the Messiah the prince!

Matthew 21:42-43
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

See? God has taken the kingdom from the Jews and gave to another. Who? Remember, Jesus said he will rebuild the temple in three days? Where will that temple be? This is where the kingdom was given to!

Ephesians 2:16-22
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This is the temple that Christ rebuilt after the Jews have destroyed him! Along with the death of the Messiah, the kingdom was taken away from old testament congregation (body of Christ's temple) and gave to New Testament congregation (rebuilt body of Christ's temple). This is PEOPLE whom Christ has died FOR! Not for Himself! You, me, Daniel, John, Peter, etc. are all one in Christ. THIS is the Covenant that Christ has confirmed or made strengthen FOR THIS PEOPLE which is much BETTER than that of Abel! Again, didn't you read the Scripture?

Hebrews 12:24
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

And Christ did confirm this covenant with his blood in Daniel 9:27!

Those who have ears, let him hear!

This has NOTHING to do with Roman Titus, Antichrist, 70AD or 7 years peace treaty with national Israel!

...He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is the warfare spoken of in Daniel 9. This is the flood (overflowing) upon Israel of which at the end of it, desolations are determined. As it was written, and as Jesus said, 'Behold, your house is left unto you desolate!' Don't be misled by the word flood, it's meaning can be seen in verses such as Isaiah 8:8, or Daniel 11:10. A excellent verse to get a feel for what this means is Daniel 11:26. When the Bible talks about an army, war, and the flood or overflowing. This is what is in view. It means it is a great overflowing army in this war. The armies are those who fought against Christ, and to the end of the war, they are left desolate and cut off, but to a remnant, he returns with Mercies.

Was there war at the cross? Indeed there was. When the Bible says that they were all against Christ, that is War. To be at enmity against Christ, is to be at war with Him. Just as to be reconciled in Christ, is to be at Peace with Him. The Flood is the overwhelming or overflowing of those who came against Christ. There was none that stood with Him. We see this in Messianic Psalms, such as:

Psalms 69:2

"I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the FLOODS OVERFLOW Me. I am weary of crying: My throat is dry: Mine eyes fail while I wait for My God. They that hate me without a cause (John 15:25) are more than the hairs of Mine head: They that would destroy Me, being Mine enemies wrongfully are mighty:..."

This is the overflowing flood of the army that came against Christ, and which made an end of City and Sanctuary. It's those who fought against the Messiah, His Enemies, those that Hated Him. They were as a Flood. And they made war until the end, and desolations were determined upon old testament congregation for rejection of their Messiah. They are judged of God. Blindness had happened to them. The Prophet and the vision is sealed. In fact, the verse we saw in Acts 15 of rebuilding the tabernacle of David from it's ruins, is taken from the Book of Amos.

Amos 9:11

"In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old."

When Acts says this scripture is fulfilled (Acts 15:16) as it is written, it tells us that we don't have to look elsewhere for the fulfillment. It is fulfilled in Christ. Again, notice the language of verse 5 when talking about this judgment of Israel.

Amos 9:5

"And the Lord God of hosts is He that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a FLOOD: and shall be drowned, as by the FLOOD of Egypt."

At the cross, Christ freed us from bondage to Satan just as God freed Israel from bondage to Pharaoh. And as the armies who fought against Israel were drowned then, so those who fight against Israel (Christ) at the cross come up like a flood, and are drowned in God's judgment. It is God who has left this city desolate because of their warfare with him. They would destroy the City and the Temple, and God will bring judgment upon them, and raise it up again in 3 days. He will build again the tabernacle that is fallen, and raise again the ruins, with living bricks - Saints! Not literal bricks. Merciful God returns with compassion, to the rebuilding of the tabernacle.

Yes, I agree when speaking of Christ's Salvation to all believers, believing Israel included. But the reconcilliation is for those there at Jerusalem, and that has yet to happen because the orthodox Jews there still reject our Lord Jesus. So one must keep Jerusalem and her people there in that perspective of those Dan.9:24 signs being fulfilled especially, and not the whole of Christianity.

jgr · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
It's not in Daniel 9 nor Daniel 11, that's for sure.

Daniel 9:27. The grammatical antecedent for he who confirms the covenant can only be Messiah.

Davy · Apr 10, 2018

jgr said:
Daniel 9:27. The grammatical antecedent for he who confirms the covenant can only be Messiah.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

The first part about Messiah being cut off is about the time of Christ's crucifixion. The word "Messiah" is indeed about Christ in the Hebrew.

The people of the prince that destroyed the city and sanctuary was about the Romans, the word "prince" meaning a 'commander' or captain, not about Christ. That prince serves as a type for the future Antichrist that is to take Jerusalem in final at the end of this world.

And the part after the semi-colon concerning a flood and desolations are about events for the end, the future tribulation. And that's where Dan.9:27 picks up about the future Antichrist at the end of this world.

Daniel 11 gives the detail about the "league" the "vile person" (Antichrist) makes which allows old covenant worship again, and then he ends the sacrifices and places the abomination that makes desolate instead for all to worship.

BABerean2 · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
Today in Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall of huge stones at the base of the Temple Mount still stands, revealing that the 70 A.D. destruction was not complete, but a type of the future destruction there to come when Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives when He returns (Zech.14).

You are confusing the remains of Roman Fort Antonia with the Jewish temple which was leveled to the ground during 70 AD.

See the link below for the truth about the area now known as "The Temple Mount".

It is about the same size and shape as other Roman forts built during the time of Christ.

Recently a Roman amphitheater was discovered underground near the area known as "The Wailing Wall".
Ancient Roman theater unearthed next to Western Wall - CNN
Why would a Roman amphitheater be found under the Jewish temple?

Roman Fort Antonia:
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

In the passage below Christ reveals the destruction of the city during 70 AD.

Luk 19:41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 saying, "If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.

Luk 19:43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side,

Luk 19:44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."

.

jgr · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
The people of the prince that destroyed the city and sanctuary was about the Romans, the word "prince" meaning a 'commander' or captain, not about Christ. That prince serves as a type for the future Antichrist that is to take Jerusalem in final at the end of this world.

The identical Hebrew word for prince, "nagid", is used in both verses 25 and 26. There is no distinction of any type drawn between the two instances.

It is Messiah in verse 25. It is also Messiah in verse 26.

TribulationSigns · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
KJV

The first part about Messiah being cut off is about the time of Christ's crucifixion. The word "Messiah" is indeed about Christ in the Hebrew.

The people of the prince that destroyed the city and sanctuary was about the Romans, the word "prince" meaning a 'commander' or captain, not about Christ. That prince serves as a type for the future Antichrist that is to take Jerusalem in final at the end of this world

You need to read verse 25. Messiah the prince! That is what the context about! God didn't talk about other prince here at all. Remember verse 24 is all about between God as Messiah the prince and His people Israel! That is what his covenant is all about! Fo his people,not for himself! Get it. You need to get the idea about evil prince, national Israel or man-made covenant out of your carnal mind.

The Times · Apr 10, 2018

BABerean2 said:
It mainly comes from a failure to recognize the New Covenant of Christ.

Those words are too kind friend. I would say willful and flagerant denial of the everlasting New Covenant, established by the blood of the Lamb of God.

BABerean2 said:
The New Covenant had already been promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, when the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel.
Daniel 9 is the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah.

Absolutely! To make a claim to any other covenant (Anti-Christ) would be preposterous.

BABerean2 said:
Dispensationalists have to deny that Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, or see their Two Peoples of God doctrine fall apart

Two peoples of God doctrine is harmful to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It may even be considered heretical.

BABerean2 said:
The antichrist, and a future 70th week of Daniel is one of the pillars of modern Dispensational Theology

A big fail, I might add for such a theology that wilfully tries to undermine the gospel of Jesus Christ.

BABerean2 said:
Much of this confusion has been produced by the Judaisers who could not let go of the Sinai Covenant.

I agree! Add to them the Full Preterists who think that the Old Covenant continued until 70AD, by negating the Cross.

Daniel clearly conveys that Jewish sacrifices after the Cross were an abomination, that were poured out on the desolate unbelieving Jews.

BABerean2 said:
Modern "Classic" Dispensational Theology claimed that God would go back to the Old Covenant system during the 7 year period before the Second Coming of Christ, after the Church is removed from the planet in a pretrib rapture. One of their many problems is the fact that the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

That would be a preposterous claim to make on their behalf. I would even dare say, that those practices could very well be, the Abomination of Desolation, established by the earthly Jewish messiah who will establish them, within the old covenant context. Doing this would remove the Cross. In fact any appearance of a manifested messiah would no longer subjugate people under the Cross. This would ultimately lead many to replace the one time sacrifice of Jesus, with the Abomination that makes Desolate standing in a place of worship, proclaiming to be an object of worship, in place of the Cross.

Islam another Anti-Christ doctrine claims that when this Jesus comes, he will break the Cross and kill the pigs (Christians).

The Devil has turned everything upside down and inside out. I look at the Old Aramaic and modern Hebrew, I notice that even though the letters from the Syriac script is the same, but the letters in modern Hebrew are upside down and inside out. Quite shocking!

The Times · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
It's not in Daniel 9 nor Daniel 11, that's for sure.

Oh really!
So, according to you, the Holy God concerns himself with an unholy covenant, right?

The Times · Apr 10, 2018

Davy said:
No covenant was made by Jesus and the orthodox unbelieving Jews.

What gave you the idea that God 's Holy Covenant, planned from the Garden and on the precious blood of his only begotten Son is applicable only if the Orthodox Jews accept it on their terms. It is NOT up for grabs.

Jesus put the Orthodox Jews on notice, inclusive of the Levitical high priest. Jesus put all of them under the condemnation of God, when they refused to accept God's 6 conditional terms, that Daniel stated, were determined upon thr Jews.

They failed to accept God's terms and continued their abomibable temple sacrifices.

Jesus preached to them the gospel and plainly said, if a town or city refuses God's terms, it would be better for Sodom than that town or city.

The Orthodox high priest was told by Jesus....

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

Davy said:
They instead rejected Him and had Him crucified.

And they were executed by God, using the many Gentile nations under Rome who accepted God's terms.

Jesus said....

“Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

The penny dropped, when the Prince of God's Covenant, sent his many peoples (nations) under Rome, to crush them, even to their end/consummation, along with their abomibable sacrifices.

Davy said:
The covenant of Dan.9:27 is the "league" of Dan.11 that the "vile person" will make in Jerusalem.

Are you calling Jesus Christ, who is the Adored and Honoured Prince of God's prophetic 70th week Covenant a "vile person"?

Davy said:
Furthermore, the New Covenant is not that covenant of Dan.9.

According to you then.
I believe Jesus is the Christ and he came for the Jews first, then when the Jews refused, then the Kingdom went to the MANY Gentile nations. Daniel's 70th week prophecy is for Daniel's people, the Jews. The 6 conditions needed to be met. Since they were not met, then their inclusion within God's Covenant was forfeited.

This means, that God the Father will NOT undermine his Son's Blood Covenant and will NOT back down. The Old Covenant system has been nullified, never to be revisted.

If it does make a comeback, then it is NOT sanctioned by God, but is sanctioned by the Devil himself, who appears in person as the AOD, as the Qur'an states to break the Cross.

Davy said:
The Daniel 9:27 Scripture reveals a false one coming to make a covenant for 7 years ("one week" symbol) and in the middle of the week ending it.

Daniel 9:27 does NOT speak of any other covenant, except the Holy Covenant that was dispensed onto Daniel by Gabriel.

I have no doubt that what you speak of may happen, but it was never the concern of God in the rebuilding of Jerusalem, for the coming of Jesus Christ.

Davy said:
Jesus did no such thing, as The New Covenant is an Everlasting Covenant.

?

Davy said:
Even comparing a covenant that is broken to that New Covenant could be construed as close to blasphemy, since Daniel 11 shows that "league" the "vile person" makes is definitely not our Lord Jesus

You are collapsing context, in order to create your own narrative.

You have been addressed thus far by many other witnesses of Christ Jesus. The Prince is of the Holy Covenant. You have to deny God attempting to make his Son's Covenant with the Jews, in order to push your narrative.

The Times · Apr 10, 2018

claninja said:
But the 1st covenant was never meant to be permanent. It was only meant to last until the coming of Christ. For which the 2nd covenant was established by the death of Christ

That's RIGHT!

claninja said:
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Hebrews 8:7-8 - Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:7-8 - English Standard Version

Exactly!

claninja said:
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:24 - Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3:24 - English Standard Version

Now our guardian is our custodian, the Holy Spirit Seal, who guareentees what is to come, even onto redemption, that is after we biologically die.

claninja said:
Agree, it was taken away at their destruction: parable of wicked tenants . And given to another nation ( believing Jews and grafted in gentiles).

Probably even earlier than that, when Jesus said from this moment forward, your house is left onto you desolate, then he immediately walked away from them. The outer temple vail being torn into two, signalled the end of the Outward temple centred worship under the Old Covenant. Jesus said the time is coming and is already come where you will no longer worship God outwardly, but rather inwardly in the Spirit and in truth.

claninja said:
And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved

True.

claninja said:
I’m not familiar with this, could you provide scripture for that states the vision is sealed after the 7th trumpet blast?

The 7th Trumpet signals the end of the harvest. The midnight call, before Christ's brilliant coming, to take the faithful to his Father's house, within their new heavenly bodies.

when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

This symbolises the utterances of the Word of God. The Messenger is the Living Word.

4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices,

When the Living Word spoke.....

I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

This means that what is spoken by the Living Word write them NOT, because they are yet to happen.

5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

This is the Living Word who uttered those sealed words and who has dominion on earth and in Heaven.

6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein,

The Living Word glorifies the Shekhinah Glory (The Father). Yahweh the Son speaking to Yahweh the Father.

that there should be time no longer:

The harvest has to come to an end. This leads to the final Crescendo......

7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound,

When the Living Word of God declares the End of the Harvest.

the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

A mystery is that “which was not made known to people. That is why John is told not to write it down. Get it! Therefore it remains sealed, until the end of the Harvest.

The mystery of God is that “which he purposed in his Living Word, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment (Crescendo)—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ” (Ephesians 1:9–10; cf. 1 Corinthians 2:7; Revelation 2:7). The mystery of God is the consummation of God’s plan in bringing His kingdom in Christ to fulfillment.

This is where Jesus will continue to reign in men's hearts, until he makes his once enemies, the subjects of His Cross, until the last enemy biological death is dissolved and at this point after the mystery is revealed, God will be all in all and Christ will be subject to the Father, as his saving Cross would have run its course in making subjects/disciples of the world who were written in the book of life before the Creation of the world.

he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

John, after the events of 70AD, some two to three decades later is told to continue the great commission in preaching the gospel, until the seventh trumpet is sounded. The reason why he could not write what is sealed, is because generations some 2000 years and counting need to be born and to be made subjects of the Cross under Christ Jesus. Then after the seventh trumpet is sounded by Jesus at his brilliant coming, the old heavens and the old earth will pass away and the book of life will be opened and death and hell cannot continue past this point. Both hell and biological death are cast into the Lake of Fire (second death).

claninja said:
You added the Jews and gentiles in parenthesis. So, I don’t agree that Jesus said that. Typically, in the context it doesn’t have to do with race.

Understand. It has to do with those who were first to receive the gospel, in order to be called workmen, like 3rd hour, 6th hour and so on.

“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.
Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find. (Gentiles)’ 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. (Matthew 22)

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.

16“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” (Matthew 20)

Notice the teachings are self reflective of the Jews he was dispensing the stark reality to. So it is a message for them. Notice how he uses the same starting paragraph and alludes to workmen that were originally invited, who did not come.

The last workmen is slightly different...... almost paralleling the prodigal son.

Why were the last paid first?
Why did Jesus say the last ought to be paid first?

Because they were the 1st to have been invited and did not come until the 11th hour. Jesus is speaking to the Jews, knowing fully well that the Jews will reject him and will refuse to come until the last hour, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes.

claninja said:
I agree, but probably in a different way.

God knows.

claninja said:
They were met by Christ, of which the Old Testament is about.

Yes.

The Times · Apr 10, 2018

claninja said:
Let’s use scripture to interpret scripture first.

Did Jesus predict the destruction of Jerusalem? He in fact did:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luke 21:20,22 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:20, Luke 21:22 - English Standard Version

43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Luke 19:43-44 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 19:43-44 - English Standard Version

No specific date or hour of Israel’s destruction is given in scripture, but Jesus says it will be during his generation.

35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:35-36 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:35-36 - English Standard Version

40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
Matthew 21:40-41,43,45 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:40-41, Matthew 21:43, Matthew 21:45 - English Standard Version

From our perspective by historical records , we know israel was destroyed during Jesus’ generation by the Romans

Hebrew parallelism: A=A, B=B

And after the sixty-two weeks, A.)an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. B.)And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. A.) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. B.)And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
Daniel 9:26-27 - Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 9:26-27 - English Standard Version

I tend to lean on the following.....

The people of the Prince (Jesus Christ) are the many Gentile nations under Rome who embraced Jesus.

The Ceasar sent to inspect the destruction of Jerusalem could not fathom how personal his army made it. Almost like they had the taste of their Messiah's blood in their mouths and in their vains, that intrinsically motivated them to destroy the enemies of the Cross wonderfully, well beyond the Ceasars expectations.

Wouldn't it be befitting that Jesus did in fact revisit the enemies of the Cross through his body of believers, when he sent them on his behalf to surround Jerusalem.

I truly believe, regardless of what books write, that the people of the prince were those Roman Legions that made up the many nations.

It was not an invasions, it was a slaughter and total annihilation.

I believe that Daniel's last remaining half from the Cross until Christ's brilliant coming is the new covenant harvest.

The two witnesses who are raised after 3.5 days is the bride of Christ towards the end of the harvest, just before the seventh trumpet.

The enemies of the Cross know who sent who to Jerusalem in 70AD. Now they want to deal with the other guy and call him messiah. This is where Christianity will be martyred and the Jews will see who they were wanting all along.

29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.

TribulationSigns · Apr 10, 2018

The Times said:
The people of the Prince (Jesus Christ) are the many Gentile nations under Rome who embraced Jesus.

Daniel 9:26-27
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This prophecy has nothing to do with the destruction of the physical city of Jerusalem in 70AD. In fact, you got wrong Jerusalem. It is not about a physical city, but people of the congregation represented the old testament congregation which is the body of Christ. Christ gave the Jews, not Romans, a sign that THEY will be the one who destroyed the temple!

John 2:18-21
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Like many Premillennialists and Preterists today, the Jews did not understand what Christ really talked about here. The Old Testament Congregation "WAS" the temple of His Body. The Jews were His People! The people of the Prince! It is them who did come and destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Moreover...

Matthew 24:1-2
[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Like the Jews, Christ's disciples thought about physical temple buildings when they beheld until after the resurrection of Messiah the prince. The temple Christ talked about was actually His body representing the old testament congregation. Don't forget that the Christ saw His people as the stones, therefore they are the stones of the temple. The old testament congregation fell and Christ rebuilt it in three days which we are NOW the living stones of a new temple (New Testament congregation). Selah! Christ did NOT predict about a physical destruction of a city and temple buildings in 70AD at all. Beside the temple was NOT holy at that time anyway. The covenant that Messiah the Prince confirmed already took place on the Cross. So it does not make sense to have physical UNHOLY temple being destroyed some 40 years after the confirmation of the covenant of verse 27, because the New Testament congregation already begun since the Cross when Christ rebuilt it three days after His death.

Quasar92 · Apr 10, 2018

jgr said:
You still haven't addressed the grammatical/syntactical issue.

Messiah the Prince is undeniably the only individual specifically identified in the passage. Therefore, all of the "he's" in verse 27 must refer to Him.

Therefore, everything which it is said that "he" will do must refer to Him.

Antichrist is nowhere seen.

Any other translation of the Bible will destroy your views. The Scriptures thoroughly refutr you. Tale mote of the following text of Dan.9:25-25 that follow:

5 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuildThe people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed”

jgr said:
You still haven't addressed the grammatical/syntactical issue.

Messiah the Prince is undeniably the only individual specifically identified in the passage. Therefore, all of the "he's" in verse 27 must refer to Him.

Therefore, everything which it is said that "he" will do must refer to Him.

Antichrist is nowhere seen.

The Scriptures completely refute you, as documented below:

Dan.9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.g The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

Take note: The Anointed One/Prince/Messiah, in verses 25 and 26, is Jesus Christ The people pf the ruler/prince to come was the Roman army! Their ruler/prince to come - NEVER capitalized}, in verse 26, was General Titus, who later became the Emperor of Rome!" He IS NOT THE ANTIICHRIST OR jESUS!

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Daniel 9:27 NASB)

In this installment I will provide further reasons for a time-gap between the sixty-nine and seventieth weeks and note features from the text that support the interpretation that this seven-year period is the yet to come tribulation period.

Antichrist or Christ?

Right off the bat, the first question that arises in verse 27 is to whom does the pronoun "he" refer to? I believe that "he" must refer to "the prince who is to come" in verse 26. However, opponents of literal interpretation disagree. Preterist, Dr. Kenneth Gentry says, "[T]he indefinite pronoun ‘he’ does not refer back to ‘the prince who is to come’ of verse 26." Fellow preterist, Gary DeMar, insists "it is Jesus who ‘will make a firm covenant with the many,’ not the antichrist." Yet, such an errant interpretation violates the grammar and syntax of the Hebrew text.

In Hebrew grammar, as with most languages, a pronoun would refer to the nearest antecedent, unless there was a contextual reason to think otherwise. In this instance, the nearest antecedent in agreement with "he" is "the prince who is to come" in verse 26. This is recognized by a majority of scholars, including a number of amillennialists such as Kiel and Leupold. Only a priori theological bias could lead a trained interpreter of Scripture to any other conclusion. Robert Culver explains the correct meaning of this text as follows:

The ordinary rules of grammar establish that the leading actor of this verse is the Antichrist, the great evil man of the end time. . . . If the pronoun "he" were present in the Hebrew, a case might possibly be made for the introduction of an entirely new personality into the story at this point. However, there is no pronoun; only the third masculine singular form of the verb indicates that an antecedent is to be sought, and that of necessity in the preceding context. Usually, the last preceding noun that agrees in gender and number and agrees with the sense is the antecedent. This is unquestionably . . . "the coming prince" of verse 26. He is a "coming" prince, that is, one whom the reader would already know as a prince to come, because he is the same as the "little horn" on the fourth beast of chapter 7.

Leon Wood provides a list of further reasons for taking the "he" in verse 27 as a reference to "the prince who is to come" of verse 26.

Second, as noted above, the unusual manner of mention in verse twenty-six regarding that prince calls for just such a further reference as this. There is no reason for the earlier notice unless something further is to be said regarding him, for he does nothing nor plays any part in activities there described. Third, several matters show that what is now said regarding the one in reference does not suit if that reference is to Christ. (a) This person makes a "firm covenant" with people, but Christ made no covenant. God made a Covenant of Grace with people, and Christ fulfilled requirements under it, but this is quite different from Christ's making a covenant. (b) Even if Christ had made a covenant with people during His lifetime, the idea of mentioning it only here in the overall thought of the passage would be unusual, when the subjects of His death and even the destruction of Jerusalem have already been set forth. (c) The idea of the seventieth week, here closely associated with this one, does not fit the life or ministry of Christ, as will be shown presently. (d) The idea that this one causes "sacrifice and offering to cease" does not fit in reference to Christ in this context. The amillennial view holds that these words refer to Christ's supreme sacrifice in death, which made all other sacrifices and offerings of no further use, thus making them to cease in principle. But, if so, what would be the reason for such a statement (true as it is) in view of the purpose of the overall prediction? One could understand a direct statement concerning Christ's providing atonement for sin—though its placing at this point in the general thought order the passage would be strange—because that would be important to sin-bondaged Israelites. But why, if that is the basic thought, should it be expressed so indirectly, in terms of sacrificing and offering being made to cease?

It is safe to conclude that the immediate context of this passage and the book as a whole supports our understanding of this matter. This interpretation would also support a futurist understanding of verse 27.

The Making of a Covenant

What is it that "he" will do? The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people, usually known as the covenant of grace. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.

If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:

Since the word for "covenant" . . . does not carry the article (contrary to the kjv translation), this covenant likely is made at this time for the first time (not a reaffirmation of an old one, then) and probably will concern some type of nonaggression treaty, recognizing mutual rights. Israel’s interest in such a treaty is easy to understand in the light of her desire today for allies to help withstand foes such as Russia and the Arab bloc of nations.

Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.

For One Week

This passage clearly says that the length of the covenant that "he" will make will be for one week or seven years. I suppose that this could mean either that the covenant will be predetermined to last seven years or that it does not specify a length of time when made, but as it turns out, is only in existence for seven years. Many of those who believe that the entire prophecy of the seventy weeks has already been fulfilled around the time of Christ’s first coming teach that the first half of the seventieth week was fulfilled by Christ’s ministry. "We know Christ’s three-and-one-half-year ministry," says Dr. Gentry, "was decidedly focused on the Jews in the first half of the seventieth week (Matt. 10:5b; cf. Matt. 15:24)." G. H. Pember objects to such a view with the following:

if the Messiah could be the subject, and the time that of the First Advent, we should then be plunged into the greatest perplexity; for the Lord did none of the things that are mentioned in the twenty-seventh verse. To fulfil that part of the prophecy, He must have made a covenant with the majority of the Jewish people for seven years, neither more nor less. But there is no hint of such a covenant in the Gospels. And, indeed, one of the prophets has intimated to us, that the Lord, just before His death, suspended all His relations with the Jews, and through them with the whole of the Twelve Tribes. This exactly corresponds to the suspension of His dealings with the Jews at the close of the Four Hundred and Eighty-third Year, and to the facts of history. Still further, the very next verse of Zechariah carries us over the interval, and brings us face to face with the Prince that shall come, the Anti-christ, who will make the seven years' covenant on pretence of being the Shepherd of Israel. Lastly, Christ did not cause sacrifice and offering to cease, when He suffered without the gate: the Temple-services were carried on for nearly forty years longer.

Conclusion

Once again we have seen in this installment on the seventy weeks that the text of this passage supports a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the seventieth week is still future to the time in which we now live. "Israel has now been reestablished as a nation (1948), suggesting that the seventieth seven may soon begin." Maranatha!

By Thomas Ice, PhD

Quasar92

TribulationSigns · Apr 11, 2018

Quasar92 said:
Any other translation of the Bible will destroy your views. The Scriptures thoroughly refutr you. Tale mote of the following text of Dan.9:25-25 that follow:

5 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuildThe people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed”

Ahhh, so you are using one Bible that is part of the proliferation of modern and "better" translations? Not surprised. I can see that there are few verses being omitted!

Let check with Young Literal Translation which is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings.

Daniel 9:24-27 (YLT)
[24] 'Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.
[25] And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.
[26] And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.
[27] And he hath strengthened a covenant with many—one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

In this installment I will provide further reasons for a time-gap between the sixty-nine and seventieth weeks and note features from the text that support the interpretation that this seven-year period is the yet to come tribulation period.

False! Your so-called 2,000 years gap theory between 69th and 70th week is NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE, and is a man-made scheme to fit your faulty doctrine!

The ordinary rules of grammar establish that the leading actor of this verse is the Antichrist, the great evil man of the end time. . . . If the pronoun "he" were present in the Hebrew, a case might possibly be made for the introduction of an entirely new personality into the story at this point. However, there is no pronoun; only the third masculine singular form of the verb indicates that an antecedent is to be sought, and that of necessity in the preceding context. Usually, the last preceding noun that agrees in gender and number and agrees with the sense is the antecedent. This is unquestionably . . . "the coming prince" of verse 26. He is a "coming" prince, that is, one whom the reader would already know as a prince to come, because he is the same as the "little horn" on the fourth beast of chapter 7.

How Absurd! That can be easily disputed! The whole theme of Daniel 9:24-27 is about Messiah the Prince who is God Himself and His people, Israel. It is about what God's salvation plan for his People, Covenant Israel. Not national Israel! You have downplayed the grammatical antecedent issues by forcing to insert a "third party" as "he" of verse 27 in order to fit your faulty "coming prince" as little horn, beast, antichrist, etc. theory. You actually have denied God's salvation plan with His Covenant for all of His People, Old and New Testament. You are being obsessed and blinded with the same mindset based on old testament pharisaical belief and attitude that God only deal with the Jews, physical temple, and physical nation in Daniel 9.

jgr · Apr 11, 2018

Quasar92 said:
Their ruler/prince to come - NEVER capitalized}, in verse 26, was General Titus, who later became the Emperor of Rome!" He IS NOT THE ANTIICHRIST OR jESUS!

Ah yes, the capitalization non-issue.

Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The capitalization is irrelevant. Jesus Christ the Messiah is described as both a prince and a Prince in Scripture.

The Hebrew original is conclusive.

Daniel 9:25
5057 [e]
nā·ḡîḏ,
נָגִ֔יד
Prince
Noun

Daniel 9:26
5057 [e]
nā·ḡîḏ
נָגִ֤יד
prince
Noun

You may notice that the two are identical.

The Prince is Messiah in verse 25. The prince is Messiah in verse 26.

Antichrist is conspicuously missing in action anywhere in the chapter.

Lay Bro. Ice back on his bed thereof.

WHY IS DANIEL 9:24-27 ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE ?

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