The Omnipresence of God and God the Holy Spirit

Oct 21, 2003
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A recent thread on the Trinity once again brought mind boggling thoughts about God the Holy Spirit to surface. Consider this, God the Holy Spirit has personhood, is co-equal with God the Father and God the Son, and to use theological terminology, these three share in the Godhead comprising one God.

We believe God the Holy Spirit dwells in each and every believer, in everyone that is in Christ. So God the Holy Spirit dwells in Heaven and in every believer simultaneously. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard the expression to the effect of "God is in our Church", but consider how many Churches God is in all at the same time, where you live and every other believer all over the world lives! Consider how many may be praying and praising at the same time, and then the population of the world and God knowing every thought every second, and knowing them in advance!!

A person on the outside, looking in, might look at this as mathematical impossibility, and might be tempted to say something along the lines of; "you say there is one God, and one Holy Spirit, but if He dwells in everyone that is in Christ, how many countless Holy Spirits are dwelling in every believer on earth and in Heaven at the same time? How can you say there is one Holy Spirit?" How would you respond to such a question? Surely this has been addressed long long ago, and I am interested in the replies.
 
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Chesterton

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You simply can't analogize or compare God's existence with our experience of reality, any more than you can analogize or compare quantum mechanics with our reality. The fundamental bits of matter which make up everything we can sense, behave in a way which confounds our logic. Why shouldn't we expect the Creator of such matter to be at least as confounding? I have no problem with the Trinity or with omnipresence. If someone posited a god which operated in a way I could fully understand, I'd be very suspicious of that god.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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You simply can't analogize or compare God's existence with our experience of reality, any more than you can analogize or compare quantum mechanics with our reality. The fundamental bits of matter which make up everything we can sense, behave in a way which confounds our logic. Why shouldn't we expect the Creator of such matter to be at least as confounding? I have no problem with the Trinity or with omnipresence. If someone posited a god which operated in a way I could fully understand, I'd be very suspicious of that god.

Strangely, and without equivocating, the doctrine of the omnipresence of God, can help with belief in the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
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Since God is omnipresent, then to speak of Him as being in something or somewhere is just a way of referring to His particular influence upon something. Therefore, When Jesus speaks of sending the Spirit, He's referring to the Spirit's activity. It's anthropomorphic language to accommodate our comprehension. Like saying the eyes of the Lord roam to and fro throughout the Earth to strengthen those whose hearts are committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9
 
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A recent thread on the Trinity once again brought mind boggling thoughts about God the Holy Spirit to surface. Consider this, God the Holy Spirit has personhood, is co-equal with God the Father and God the Son, and to use theological terminology, these three share in the Godhead comprising one God.

We believe God the Holy Spirit dwells in each and every believer, in everyone that is in Christ. So God the Holy Spirit dwells in Heaven and in every believer simultaneously. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard the expression to the effect of "God is in our Church", but consider how many Churches God is in all at the same time, where you live and every other believer all over the world lives! Consider how many may be praying and praising at the same time, and then the population of the world and God knowing every thought every second, and knowing them in advance!!

A person on the outside, looking in, might look at this as mathematical impossibility, and might be tempted to say something along the lines of; "you say there is one God, and one Holy Spirit, but if He dwells in everyone that is in Christ, how many countless Holy Spirits are dwelling in every believer on earth and in Heaven at the same time? How can you say there is one Holy Spirit?" How would you respond to such a question? Surely this has been addressed long long ago, and I am interested in the replies.
God is omnipresent through omniscience, as it is written:

Psalms 139:1 KJB - To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.

Psalms 139:2 KJB - Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Psalms 139:3 KJB - Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

Psalms 139:4 KJB - For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

Psalms 139:5 KJB - Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

Psalms 139:6 KJB - Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

Psalms 139:7 KJB - Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

Psalms 139:8 KJB - If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psalms 139:9 KJB - If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Psalms 139:10 KJB - Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

Psalms 139:11 KJB - If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

Psalms 139:12 KJB - Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Psalms 139:13 KJB - For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

Psalms 139:14 KJB - I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Psalms 139:15 KJB - My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Psalms 139:16 KJB - Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Psalms 139:17 KJB - How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Psalms 139:18 KJB - If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Psalms 139:19 KJB - Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

Psalms 139:20 KJB - For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

Psalms 139:21 KJB - Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalms 139:22 KJB - I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Psalms 139:23 KJB - Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Psalms 139:24 KJB - And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

1 John 3:20 KJB - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.​

The Father is in a specific location, Heaven [3rd]:

Matthew 5:16 KJB - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:45 KJB - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:48 KJB - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:1 KJB - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:9 KJB - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 7:11 KJB - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:21 KJB - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32 KJB - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33 KJB - But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50 KJB - For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matthew 16:17 KJB - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:10 KJB - Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14 KJB - Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Matthew 18:19 KJB - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 23:9 KJB - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mark 11:25 KJB - And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 KJB - But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 11:2 KJB - And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Luke 15:21 KJB - And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

1 John 5:7 KJB - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.​

Jesus Christ is in a specific location in Heaven [3rd], having ascended unto the Father:

Luke 24:51 KJB - And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

John 17:11 KJB - And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Acts 1:9 KJB - And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:10 KJB - And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Acts 1:11 KJB - Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 7:55 KJB - But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 KJB - And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Ephesians 4:9 KJB - (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 KJB - He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.​

The person of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is now on earth:

Revelation 5:6 KJB - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Acts 2:33 KJB - Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:29 KJB - Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 16:7 KJB - After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Psalms 133:1 KJB - A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Psalms 133:2 KJB - It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

Psalms 133:3 KJB - As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

John 14:16 KJB - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 KJB - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.​

How then does the Holy Ghost/Spirit dwell in each, well there are some mysteries involved, but we also know that it is through the word of God:

John 14:23 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:7 KJB - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 15:26 KJB - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 KJB - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 KJB - He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:15 KJB - All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:17 KJB - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.​

Just food for thought:

"... PERSONALITY OF GOD

MAN was made in the image of God. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him." Gen.i,26,27. See also chap.ix,6; 1Cor.xi,7. Those who deny the personality of God, say that "image" here does not mean physical form, but moral image, and they make this the grand starting point to prove the immortality of all men. The argument stands thus: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is an immortal being. Third, therefore all men are immortal. But this mode of reasoning would also prove man omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and thus clothe mortal man with all the attributes of the deity. Let us try it: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Third, therefore, man is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. That which proves too much, proves nothing to the point, therefore the position that the image of God means his moral image, cannot be sustained. As proof that God is a person, read his own words to Moses: "And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock; and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. And I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see my [2] back parts; but my face shall not be seen." Ex.xxxiii,21-23. See also chap.xxiv,9-11. Here God tells Moses that he shall see his form. To say that God made it appear to Moses that he saw his form, when he has no form, is charging God with adding to falsehood a sort of juggling deception upon his servant Moses. {1861 JW, PERGO 1.1}

But the skeptic thinks he sees a contradiction between verse 11, which says that the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, and verse 20, which states that Moses could not see his face. But let Num.xii,5-8 remove the difficulty. "And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam, and they both came forth. And he said, Hear now my words. If there be a prophet among you, I, the Lord, will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently." {1861 JW, PERGO 2.1}

The great and dreadful God came down, wrapped in a cloud of glory. This cloud could be seen, but not the face which possesses more dazzling brightness than a thousand suns. Under these circumstances Moses was permitted to draw near and converse with God face to face, or mouth to mouth, even apparently. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.2}

Says the prophet Daniel, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hairs of his head like the pure wool; his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Chap.vii,9. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and [3] there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom." Verses 13, 14. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.3}

Here is a sublime description of the action of two personages; viz, God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ. Deny their personality, and there is not a distinct idea in these quotations from Daniel. In connection with this quotation read the apostle's declaration that the Son was in the express image of his Father's person. "God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person." Heb.i,1-3. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.1}

We here add the testimony of Christ. "And the Father himself which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John v,37. See also Phil.ii,6. To say that the Father has not a personal shape, seems the most pointed contradiction of plain scripture terms.

OBJECTION. - "God is a Spirit." John iv,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.2}

ANSWER. - Angels are also spirits [Ps.civ,4], yet those that visited Abram and Lot, lay down, ate, and took hold of Lot's hand. They were spirit beings. So is God a Spirit being. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.3}

OBJ. - God is everywhere. Proof. Ps.cxxxix,1-8. He is as much in every place as in any one place. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.4}

ANS. - 1. God is everywhere by virtue of his omniscience, as will be seen by the very words of David referred to above. Verses 1-6. "O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my down-sitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a [4] word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thy hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high; I cannot attain unto it." {1861 JW, PERGO 3.5}

2. God is everywhere by virtue of his Spirit, which is his representative, and is manifested wherever he pleases, as will be seen by the very words the objector claims, referred to above. Verses 7-10. "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." {1861 JW, PERGO 4.1}

God is in heaven. This we are taught in the Lord's prayer. "Our Father which art in heaven." Matt.vi,9; Luke xi,2. But if God is as much in every place as he is in any one place, then heaven is also as much in every place as it is in any one place, and the idea of going to heaven is all a mistake. We are all in heaven; and the Lord's prayer, according to this foggy theology simply means, Our Father which art everywhere, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is everywhere. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.2}

Again, Bible readers have believed that Enoch and Elijah were really taken up to God in heaven. But if God and heaven be as much in every place as in any one place, this is all a mistake. They were not translated. And all that is said about the chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and the attending whirlwind to take Elijah up into heaven, was a useless parade. They only evaporated, and a misty vapor passed through the entire universe. This is all of Enoch and Elijah that the mind can possibly grasp, admitting that God and heaven are [5] no more in any one place than in every place. But it is said of Elijah that he "went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2Kings ii,11. And of Enoch it is said that he "walked with God, and was not, for God took him." Gen.v,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.3}

Jesus is said to be on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb.i,3. "So, then, after the Lord had spoken unto them he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark xvi,19. But if heaven be everywhere, and God everywhere, then Christ's ascension up to heaven, at the Father's right hand, simply means that he went everywhere! He was only taken up where the cloud hid him from the gaze of his disciples, and then evaporated and went everywhere! So that instead of the lovely Jesus, so beautifully described in both Testaments, we have only a sort of essence dispersed through the entire universe. And in harmony with this rarified theology, Christ's second advent, or his return, would be the condensation of this essence to some locality, say the mount of Olivet! Christ arose from the dead with a physical form. "He is not here," said the angel, "for he is risen as he said." Matt.xxviii,6. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.1}

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail! And they came and held him by the feet, and they worshiped him." Verse 9. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.2}
"Behold my hands and my feet," said Jesus to those who stood in doubt of his resurrection, "that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honey-comb, and he took it and did eat before them." Luke xxiv,39-43. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.3} [6]

After Jesus addressed his disciples on the mount of Olivet, he was taken up from them, and a cloud received him out of their sight. "And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts i,9-11. J. W. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.1}

IMMATERIALITY

THIS is but another name for nonentity. It is the negative of all things and beings - of all existence. There is not one particle of proof to be advanced to establish its existence. It has no way to manifest itself to any intelligence in heaven or on earth. Neither God, angels, nor men could possibly conceive of such a substance, being, or thing. It possesses no property or power by which to make itself manifest to any intelligent being in the universe. Reason and analogy never scan it, or even conceive of it. Revelation never reveals it, nor do any of our senses witness its existence. It cannot be seen, felt, heard, tasted, or smelled, even by the strongest organs, or the most acute sensibilities. It is neither liquid nor solid, soft nor hard - it can neither extend nor contract. In short, it can exert no influence whatever - it can neither act nor be acted upon. And even if it does exist, it can be of no possible use. It possesses no one, desirable property, faculty, or use, yet, strange to say, immateriality is the modern Christian's God, his anticipated heaven, his immortal self - his all! {1861 JW, PERGO 6.2}

O sectarianism! O atheism!! O annihilation!!! [7]

who can perceive the nice shades of difference between the one and the other? They seem alike, all but in name. The atheist has no God. The sectarian has a God without body or parts. Who can define the difference? For our part we do not perceive a difference of a single hair; they both claim to be the negative of all things which exist - and both are equally powerless and unknown. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.3}

The atheist has no after life, or conscious existence beyond the grave. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial, like his God; and without body or parts. Here again both are negative, and both arrive at the same point. Their faith and hope amount to the same; only it is expressed by different terms. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.1}

Again, the atheist has no heaven in eternity. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial in all its properties, and is therefore the negative of all riches and substances. Here again they are equal, and arrive at the same point. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.2}

As we do not envy them the possession of all they claim, we will now leave them in the quiet and undisturbed enjoyment of the same, and proceed to examine the portion still left for the despised materialist to enjoy. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.3}

What is God? He is material, organized intelligence, possessing both body and parts. Man is in his image. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.4}

What is Jesus Christ? He is the Son of God, and is like his Father, being "the brightness of his Father's glory, and the express image of his person." He is a material intelligence, with body, parts, and passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.5}

What are men? They are the offspring of Adam. They are capable of receiving intelligence and exaltation to such a degree as to be raised from the dead with a body like that of Jesus Christ, [8] and to possess immortal flesh and bones. Thus perfected, they will possess the material universe, that is, the earth, as their "everlasting inheritance." With these hopes and prospects before us, we say to the Christian world who hold to immateriality, that they are welcome to their God - their life - their heaven, and their all. They claim nothing but that which we throw away; and we claim nothing but that which they throw away. Therefore, there is no ground for quarrel or contention between us. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.6}

We choose all substance - what remains
The mystical sectarian gains;
All that each claims, each shall possess,
Nor grudge each other's happiness.

An immaterial God they choose,
For such a God we have no use;
An immaterial heaven and hell,
In such a heaven we cannot dwell.

We claim the earth, the air, and sky,
And all the starry worlds on high;
Gold, silver, ore, and precious stones,
And bodies made of flesh and bones.

Such is our hope, our heaven, our all,
When once redeemed from Adam's fall;
All things are ours, and we shall be,
The Lord's to all eternity. {1861 JW, PERGO 8.1} ..." - Personality of God, by James Springer White, 1861, pages 1.1 - 8.1
 
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