Did Jesus Make Alcoholic Wine?

JackRT

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The Israelite drank their wine diluted with water. Generally speaking: Barbarians or Gentiles drank wine or alcoholic drinks undiluted. Just look at the Gentile world today. They haven’t changed.

The Greek and Roman custom was to take fully fermented wine, known Biblically as "strong drink" (about 16% alcohol), and cutting it with water to reduce the alcoholic content. My understanding is that was drunk at 4% to 8% according to taste. Beer was actually far more common than wine.
 
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Radagast

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The Israelite drank wine mixed with water. So it will still give the person who drinks it a happy feeling.

Agreed; so did the Greeks. The diluted wine had the strength of beer; you could get drunk on it.

The yeast feeds of the life of the grape. This is a process of death.

That's a silly argument. If you just eat a grape you're feeding off its life as well.

Wine can be defined as unfermented or fermented according to the dictionary.

The Greek oinos always meant fermented wine, almost always made from grapes.

The English "wine," without a qualifying adjective, always means fermented wine made from grapes.

You are misrepresenting what the dictionary says.
 
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I am not going to argue with people here. I argued this topic to death for 200 plus pages between this forum and another.

A person will defend alcohol because that is what they want to see.
 
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Steve Petersen

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God permitted strong drink:

Deuteronomy 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,​
 
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To all:

The Nature of Alcohol

Alcoholic wine is a product of decay and death. God creates things that are full of life and things that are good. If you were to take alcohol and put it in a cup and then put some dirty coins in there, the alcohol would clean the coins. If you were to put a small piece of fruit or meat in the alcohol, it would dry it out. The alcohol has no understanding of being outside your body or inside your body. Soon as it enters the body, it does the same thing. It seeks to dry out things and to destroy your living tissue. But it is a good thing we have an immune system that can fight back so as to survive. In other words, alcohol is a very minor poison that your body can counter effects of whereby you will not die. But the abuse of this poison can easily kill you because of it's harmful effects.
 
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Radagast

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Beer was actually far more common than wine.

Among some people, but not among the Greeks. They were mostly wine-drinkers. The Egyptians drank beer, I believe.

Here, by the way, is an ancient Greek description of moderation: "Three bowls do I mix for the temperate: one to health, which they empty first; the second to love and pleasure; the third to sleep. When this bowl is drunk up, wise guests go home. The fourth bowl is ours no longer, but belongs to violence; the fifth to uproar; the sixth to drunken revel; the seventh to black eyes; the eighth is the policeman's; the ninth belongs to biliousness; and the tenth to madness and the hurling of furniture."
 
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Jonathan Leo

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The wine was the same as today, because it was the same fermentation process that made it.



True!
Made the same way yes I agree, but remember that the amount of liquor we have today is never ending. We also have sanitized water meaning wine today is solely used for getting drunk. It is a social thing rather than a vital source for well being. Since there is a never ending source of ingredients to make alcohol today, a lot can be left to ferment for longer thus increasing its richness and potency.
In biblical times it was necessary to cleanse water. Granted, you could get strong wine back then but mostly it was used for cleaning water, used for medicine.
If wine was readily available back then, Jesus wouldn’t have turned water into wine because who in their right mind would want their wedding to run dry of wine??

There are lots of things we can get from that miracle from Jesus but for now lets stick with the basics. They ran out of wine because wine wasn’t as available as it is today and why? Because a lot of it was used to cleanse things and for medicine
 
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Jonathan Leo

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God created grapes. God created the yeasts that turn grape juice into wine.
Good point, just to add that God also created humans to have pleasurable sex. Sex is good. It’s when we step outside Gods boundaries that everything He has created good for us can be used badly against us.
Is wine good? Yes
Is sex good? Yes

Is drinking too much wine good? No
Is having extra marital affairs good? No
 
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Radagast

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We also have sanitized water meaning wine today is solely used for getting drunk.

Personally, I drink wine because I love the taste. In moderation, red wine is also good for the heart.

a lot can be left to ferment for longer thus increasing its richness and potency.

Fermenting longer doesn't give more alcohol; there are biological limits on the alcohol percentage. Stronger drinks than wine require distillation, which was invented later.

If wine was readily available back then, Jesus wouldn’t have turned water into wine because who in their right mind would want their wedding to run dry of wine??

Jesus turned water into wine because the host had run out of wine. Wine was a popular drink and widely available; the host just hadn't purchased enough.

The Biblical account says that they ran out of wine (Greek συνετελέσθη): "When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, 'They have no wine.'" (ESV); "And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, 'They have no wine.'" (NKJV).
 
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☦Marius☦

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I am not going to argue with people here. I argued this topic to death for 200 plus pages between this forum and another.

A person will defend alcohol because that is what they want to see.

And I would say you attack it because you fear it.

It is better to raise your kids teaching them to drink responsibly then building it up as some kind of forbidden fruit their whole life leading to them trying it at a more venerable time of life.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Personally, I drink wine because I love the taste. In moderation, red wine is also good for the heart.
Nothing at all wrong with drinking wine, Enjoy it


Fermenting longer doesn't give more alcohol; there are biological limits on the alcohol percentage. Stronger drinks than wine require distillation, which was invented later.
True that, I remember making my own and the longer it fermented the stronger it got, but your right, there’s a cut off point to how strong it gets. Yes you distill spirits and potent alcohol, my point that it was nowhere near as strong as today



Jesus turned water into wine because the host had run out of wine. Wine was a popular drink and widely available; the host just hadn't purchased enough.
I misinterpreted scripture, they ran out via didn’t buy enough to begin with. I honestly taught there wasn’t enough to begin with

The Biblical account says that they ran out of wine (Greek συνετελέσθη): "When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, 'They have no wine.'" (ESV); "And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, 'They have no wine.'" (NKJV).
 
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woobadooba

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So I was thinking about this more as I have seen it come up on various threads (including my own).

I don't really know if this is a debatable topic, since the Greek word for wine is the same in John 2, as it is in say Ephesians 5:18 when it states "do not get drunk with wine", yet some still debate it...

The Greek word for wine: Oinos
Strongs Greek:
Strong's Greek: 3631. οἶνος (oinos) -- wine

A couple questions come to mind for those that believe Jesus made non-alcoholic wine.

1) Do you disagree with the original Greek word that is used? Do you have an alternate translation that you're working from?

2) How do you translate verses in the Bible where alcoholic wine is mentioned in a positive way? i.e. Ecclesiastes 9:7, Amos 9:14

3) Why would it be relevant if Jesus made alcoholic wine or not?

Hope to hear some of your thoughts CF. :)

Tetra
I don't believe it is a sin to drink wine. The Bible speaks against drunkenness. Having a glass of wine for medicinal purposes doesn't constitute drunkenness. It's the motive behind drinking that people need to consider.
 
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☦Marius☦

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It is irrelevant whether that wine was alcoholic or not.

What most Christians failed to see in that passage, was that Jesus complained to Mary about performing that miracle....They don't see that at all...Must be the side effect of wine in the system...:rolleyes:

He complained because it was before the time to do such public miracles. But here we see that Christ answered the request of his mother, showing that her intercession is valid.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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To all:

The Nature of Alcohol

Alcoholic wine is a product of decay and death. God creates things that are full of life and things that are good. If you were to take alcohol and put it in a cup and then put some dirty coins in there, the alcohol would clean the coins. If you were to put a small piece of fruit or meat in the alcohol, it would dry it out. The alcohol has no understanding of being outside your body or inside your body. Soon as it enters the body, it does the same thing. It seeks to dry out things and to destroy your living tissue. But it is a good thing we have an immune system that can fight back so as to survive. In other words, alcohol is a very minor poison that your body can counter effects of whereby you will not die. But the abuse of this poison can easily kill you because of it's harmful effects.
So is eating meat harmful because it’s full of bacteria
So is breathing air harmful because it’s full of pollution
So is drinking water harmful because is full of fluoride
So is sleeping to much
So is working too much
So is laughing, crying, running, thrill seeking
Guess what bro, if you wrapped yourself up in a bubble your still going to die. My point is, that everything around us is bad for us or is it?? No matter if you live and eat perfectly, you will still age, deteriorate, die and rot away
This world is rotting because of sin

Wine is good for you in moderation. So is eating a big fat juicy steak, a greasy burger. That’s why we are told to be joyful at heart, enjoy everything and give thanks to God for everything be it food, wine, etc.
Even if you never touched wine, your liver could fail
If you never smoked, you could get lung cancer,
If you eat healthy, you could be a healthy diabetic
If you excercise daily, you could die of heart disease

Ever wonder why people who were fit and healthy die young of natural causes and someone who smokes 60 a day and drinks 7 days a week lives to be 104 years old??

Everything in this world is cursed with death. So put a piece of meat out without alcohol and watch it. It will still dry up, rot away
 
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Jonathan Leo

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And I would say you attack it because you fear it.

It is better to raise your kids teaching them to drink responsibly then building it up as some kind of forbidden fruit their whole life leading to them trying it at a more venerable time of life.
Oh look, we can actually agree on something lol
Better the devil you know aka allow them to drink responsibly
 
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JackRT

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Fermenting longer doesn't give more alcohol; there are biological limits on the alcohol percentage. Stronger drinks than wine require distillation, which was invented later.

At about 16% the alcohol actually kills the yeast and fermentation stops. Distillation of alcohol didn't happen till the twelfth century.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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It is irrelevant whether that wine was alcoholic or not.

What most Christians failed to see in that passage, was that Jesus complained to Mary about performing that miracle....They don't see that at all...Must be the side effect of wine in the system...:rolleyes:
Agreed, there’s more to that passage of scripture than just the miracle.
Jesus complained because His time for miracles wasnt at that point
Jesus miracles or ministry was for healing
He complained yes, but He also honored His parents. Although it wasn’t time, He obeyed His mother
Water was dirty back then, turning them into wine represents Jesus putting life into waste. That’s a picture of us.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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I don't believe it is a sin to drink wine. The Bible speaks against drunkenness. Having a glass of wine for medicinal purposes doesn't constitute drunkenness. It's the motive behind drinking that people need to consider.
Is it a need or a social thing?
Is it killing you or curing you
Are you depending on drink?

I agree, I believe if drink is running your live, you need to run away from drink
 
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