Are Protestants dead?

redleghunter

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I'll post Jesus honoring a Big 'T' tradition and denouncing the little 't' traditions. Can't put the little 't' before the big 't'
Yes Jesus addressed (and condemned) the religious ruling class of the time for putting their traditions before God's commands (Moses and the Prophets).
 
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Mountainmike

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And I have pointed out you are taking a single paragraph WAY out of context
For the first time ever read book III COMPLETELY and I urge others to do so.
You totally misrepresent it.

Iranaus clearly states that the tradition and authority to interpret doctrine lie at the church at rome

And that gnostics disgregard scripture and tradition. You quote just one part of the latter statement so misrepresent iraneus meaning.

We hold both in high regard and accpet early church teaching on the eucharist/

Sadly lost in most reformation churches.




I know what Ignatius wrote in his Epistle to the Smyrnaeans I’ve read it sir. I’ve also mentioned to you earlier this week that Iranaeus specifically stated

When, however, they are confuted from the Scriptures, they turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct, nor of authority, and [assert] that they are ambiguous, and that the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorantof tradition. For [they allege] that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but vivâ voce. Adversus Haereses Book3 Chapter2 1st sentence

The source of Godly knowledge is the Holy Spirit. It is not confined exclusively to the Catholic Church. Please understand it is not my intention to discredit the Roman Church. I believe salvation can be found both in and out of the RCC but no church is beyond error.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And I have pointed out you are taking a single paragraph WAY out of context
For the first time ever read book III COMPLETELY and I urge others to do so.
You totally misrepresent it.

Iranaus clearly states that the tradition and authority to interpret doctrine lie at the church at rome

And that gnostics disgregard scripture and tradition. You quote just one part of the latter statement so misrepresent iraneus meaning.

We hold both in high regard and accpet early church teaching on the eucharist/

Sadly lost in most reformation churches.

And as I also pointed out earlier this week Iranaeus can’t testify to the validity of the Roman church today because it is in schism of the Eastern churches. Much has changed in the Roman church during the past 1800 years. Although his statement that the scriptures can be interpreted correctly even without knowledge of the traditions still stands because the scriptures have remained the same.
 
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JF Seabastian

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I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?

John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
 
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JF Seabastian

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I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?

John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
Christ was speaking of spiritual things. The Communion is a spiritual event. The dogma of Transmutation is necessary for Catholics, but how many actually believe that when the priest lifts up the bread and wine it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ? It is a spiritual event—not a physical one. Flesh represents death while spirit represents life. The Holy Spirit is Eternal life.
 
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Eloy Craft

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I don’t understand your question can you rephrase it please?
If there ever was a community that held to a faith established without error, everything they believe is true, why was it established in truth without error?
 
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Winken

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If there ever once was, why?
Relying upon mental-emotional interpretations of scripture is a disaster. It is, must be, "interpretation and application" as revealed by the Holy Spirit. All else results in millions of books, commentaries, TV "evangelism," and more. Interpretation & Application is based upon listening to the Holy Spirit, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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Eloy Craft

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Christ was speaking of spiritual things. The Communion is a spiritual event. The dogma of Transmutation is necessary for Catholics, but how many actually believe that when the priest lifts up the bread and wine it literally becomes the flesh and blood of Christ? It is a spiritual event—not a physical one. Flesh represents death while spirit represents life. The Holy Spirit is Eternal life.
but Christs flesh is life.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If there ever was a community that held to a faith established without error, everything they believe is true, why was it established in truth without error?

If such a community exists it would be because they are no doubt led by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Mmm, I see what you mean. So if I’ve got this right, when I said in an earlier post that some Protestants (such as Lutherans and some Anglicans) do believe in the Real Presence, you’re saying I had a fair point? Golly...

You first post in this thread (the one to which I was replying) said "To be fair, what I, at least, said was that Protestants don't partake of the Eucharist. Catholics know that, most Protestants know that and so there shouldn't be a problem there. The commemoration of the Lord's Supper which many Protestants observe is fine in its place, however."

Apparently I missed your later post where you corrected yourself.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Relying upon mental-emotional interpretations of scripture is a disaster. It is, must be, "interpretation and application" as revealed by the Holy Spirit. All else results in millions of books, commentaries, TV "evangelism," and more. Interpretation & Application is based upon listening to the Holy Spirit, nothing more, nothing less.

People usually believe their mental and emotional interpretation is from the Holy Spirit. It’s extremely hard to determine sometimes.
 
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PanDeVida

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I started this thread as a spin off thread from another thread i have going. As i was discussing the Lords supper, I was told by Catholics that Protestants dont actually partake of the real Lords supper. If this is true then doesnt that mean that protestants are dead, according to John 6:53?

John 6:53 New King James Version (NKJV)
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

W2L, The Definition of the word Assuredly: used to express the speaker's certainty that something is true. To make it more of an impact the Lord uses the word MOST, in front of Assuredly, to make it a DOUBLE WHAMMY! LOL

Using your New kings James version, If I were to tell you W2L,
"Most Assuredly" if you jump off the Empire State Building, head first you will have no more life in you. What do you think would happen to you? Do you think after the fall, you will rise up and shake off the dust off your clothes and go eat a Big Mac. With the Lord all things are possible, but not after the Lord WARNS US with the words "Most Assuredly!!!"

There are many good protestants who attend church every Sunday and no one has truly taught them
John 6:53 that when the Lord uses the Word "Most Assuredly" Jesus Christ, literally means LIFE OR DEATH!!! So they are invincibly ignorant re: John 6:53 Jesus Christ knows these good protestants.

However, when a protestant has been told this truth, lets say like here at Christianforums, and then chooses not to accept the Words of the Lord,
"Most Assuredly" then that person will have no life in them because they choose not to believe in His Words, (these are not my words but the Lords) Thus why in Scripture we read, not all who say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but only those who do the WILL of the Father. The Will of the Father is one and the same as the Lord, and that is, that we must Eat and Drink His Flesh and Blood. Yes, all protestants today strove among themselves saying: "How can this Man give us His Flesh to Eat". W2L, does these words sound familiar to you in your mind?

Yes, true the Lord did not go after those who left Him re:
John 6:53, Jesus Christ Left His Catholic Church to go after them, thus why I am here.

W2L, Most Assuredly, the Holy Spirit wether you know it or not, is working in you because of this your thread, and that is to become Catholic! Oh my what a dreadful thing Just said, to you, for you to become Catholic, well then again, it is the Only Church That LIVES OUT
John 6:53 in the The Most Holy Eucharist!

W2L, Many if not all Ex Protestants have entered the Catholic Church because of John 6:53 And Most Assuredly these Ex Protestants make the best Catholics.

Yes, the Lord here in
John 6:53 is using what we cannot use here and that is FEAR MONGERING!

Fear Mongering is a good thing, when it comes form the Lord and His Church, re: John 6:53

If John 6:53 is not fear mongering, then what is, and by the Lord this was done. Amen Amen

PanDeVida, aka BreadOfLife
 
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thecolorsblend

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You first post in this thread (the one to which I was replying) said "To be fair, what I, at least, said was that Protestants don't partake of the Eucharist. Catholics know that, most Protestants know that and so there shouldn't be a problem there. The commemoration of the Lord's Supper which many Protestants observe is fine in its place, however."

Apparently I missed your later post where you corrected yourself.
”Real Presence” is spelled differently from “the Eucharist” for a reason.

Protestants don’t partake of the Eucharist. That simple fact notwithstanding, some of them still believe in the Real Presence.
 
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”Real Presence” is spelled differently from “the Eucharist” for a reason. Protestants don’t partake of the Eucharist. That simple fact notwithstanding, some of them still believe in the Real Presence.

Lutherans are Protestants. Lutherans partake of the Eucharist. Saying that we don't partake is not a "simple fact."
 
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Winken

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People usually believe their mental and emotional interpretation is from the Holy Spirit. It’s extremely hard to determine sometimes.
Don Watson
Grace through Faith removes the difficulty. Thanks for your post!
 
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W2L, The Definition of the word Assuredly: used to express the speaker's certainty that something is true. To make it more of an impact the Lord uses the word MOST, in front of Assuredly, to make it a DOUBLE WHAMMY! LOL

Using your New kings James version, If I were to tell you W2L,
"Most Assuredly" if you jump of the Empire State Building, head first you will have no more life in you. What do you think would happen to you? Do you think after the fall, you will rise up and shake off the dust off your clothes and go eat a Big Mac. With the Lord all things are possible, but not after the Lord WARNS US with the words "Most Assuredly!!!"

There are many good protestants who attend church every Sunday and no one has truly taught them
John 6:53 that when the Lord uses the Word "Most Assuredly" Jesus Christ, literally means LIFE OR DEATH!!! So they are invincibly ignorant re: John 6:53 Jesus Christ knows these good protestants.

However, when a protestant has been told this truth, lets say like here at Christianforums, and then chooses not to accept the Words of the Lord,
"Most Assuredly" then that person will have no life in them because they choose not to believe in His Words. Thus why in Scripture we read, not all who say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but only those who do the WILL of the Father. The Will of the Father is one and the same as the Lord, and that is, that we must Eat and Drink His Flesh and Blood. Yes, all protestants today strove among themselves saying: "How can this Man give us His Flesh to Eat". W2L, does these word sound familiar to you in your mind?

Yes, true the Lord did not go after those who left Him re:
John 6:53, Jesus Christ Left His Catholic Church to go after them, thus why I am here.

W2L, Most Assuredly, the Holy Spirit wether you know it or not, is working in you because of this your thread, and that is to become Catholic! Oh my what a dreadful thing Just said, to you, for you to become Catholic, well then again, it is the Only Church That LIVES OUT
John 6:53 in the The Most Holy Eucharist!

W2L, Many if not all Ex Protestants have entered the Catholic Church because of John 6:53 And Most Assuredly these Ex Protestants make the best Catholics.

Yes, the Lord here in
John 6:53 is using what we cannot use here and that is FEAR MONGERING!

Fear Mongering is a good thing, when it comes form the Lord and His Church, re: John 6:53

PanDeVida, aka BreadOfLife

“His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?” He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:10-13‬ ‭

Now let’s take a look at the beginning of the bread of life discourse.

“Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, you want to be with me because I fed you, not because you understood the miraculous signs.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:26‬ ‭

““Sir,” they said, “give us that bread every day.” Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:34-36‬

“Then the people began to murmur in disagreement because he had said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Isn’t this Jesus, the son of Joseph? We know his father and mother. How can he say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:41-45‬ ‭

“Then the people began arguing with each other about what he meant. “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” they asked. So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:52-53‬ ‭

“But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.” At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?” Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God. ””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64-69‬ ‭

Jesus was intentionally making it difficult for the people to understand to weed out those who didn’t believe in Him.
 
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