Was the rooster that crowed really a rooster?

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I think if The Almighty can raise up kings and rulers, surely he could make a rooster crow 3 times, whether they were allowed in Jerusalem at that time or not.
The bible says a rooster crowed, so that is what I believe.

31gH9N.9. said:

If someone has not heard this debate before, here it goes.

Some say that the rooster that crowed when Peter denied the Lord was not really a rooster, but a man. I don't know all the facets to this debate but the anti rooster crowd usually makes the claim that such a thing was impossible because there weren't supposed to be any roosters in Jerusalem. Apparently there was some ruling in the first century that didn't allow them because they could bring contaminaton into the temple. Here is a link to a site that makes the basic anti-rooster claims.
The Temple Crier or Rooster - White Feather Ministries

But what if the rooster was not really inside walls? Couldn't there have been a rooster on the outside of the city? I know from living on a farm that you can hear a rooster crow from pretty far away on a quiet morning. Any thoughts?

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It could be that both are true.

First point. I have not known rooster to only crow three times. They are usually pretty persistent in their crowing.

Second point. Yeshua tells Peter, “the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] will not crow today before you deny three times that you know me”.. which is pretty early in the morning before the crow starts crowing. Luke 22:34 and Luke 22:60-61 doesn't say the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows three times, but that Peter denies three times before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows.

Third point. The Mishnah, laws of Yeshua's time frame, states that roosters (chickens) may not be raised in Jerusalem due to purity concerns (m. Baba Kama 7.7; see also b. Baba Kama 82b) which does give credence to given argument of no rooster available in the city of Jerusalem to crow. And the fact that rooster crowing does carry far in the quiet of morning, also can still be in play here.

Fourth point. Mishnah makes several references to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowing and it gives us some idea what they mean.

“He that was minded to clean the altar of ashes rose up early and immersed himself before the officer came. At what time did he come? Not always at the same time. Sometimes he came at cockcrow and sometimes a little sooner or later” (m. Tamid 1.2; see also m. Yoma 1.8; m. Sukkah 5.4).

“Every day they used to remove the ashes from off the altar at cockcrow, or near to it, either before it or after it” (m. Yoma 1.8).

“At cockcrow they blew a sustained, a quavering, and another sustained blast” (m. Sukkah 5.4). which is like saying the temple priests were up with the chickens.

Humble me Lord said:

I think if The Almighty can raise up kings and rulers, surely he could make a rooster crow 3 times,

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Exactly.
I have never heard of this anti rooster movement but I think it's best to stay clear of anything like that. Just take the Bible for what it says.
M-Bob

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31gH9N.9. said:

If someone has not heard this debate before, here it goes.

Some say that the rooster that crowed when Peter denied the Lord was not really a rooster, but a man. I don't know all the facets to this debate but the anti rooster crowd usually makes the claim that such a thing was impossible because there weren't supposed to be any roosters in Jerusalem. Apparently there was some ruling in the first century that didn't allow them because they could bring contaminaton into the temple. Here is a link to a site that makes the basic anti-rooster claims.
The Temple Crier or Rooster - White Feather Ministries

But what if the rooster was not really inside walls? Couldn't there have been a rooster on the outside of the city? I know from living on a farm that you can hear a rooster crow from pretty far away on a quiet morning. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

This is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me. A call to pray. The Muslims do this and the church uses church bells as a call as well.
Gill, in his commentary mentions this Jewish law....

It is forbid, by a Jewish canon, to keep [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] at Jerusalem; it runs thus (c):

"they do not bring up [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in Jerusalem, because of the holy things, neither do the priests in all the land of Israel, because of the purifications."
(c) Misn. Bava Kama, c. 7. sect. 7. T. Bab. Bava Kama, fol. 82. 2. Abot R. Nathan, c. 35. Maimon. Hilch. Beth Habechirah, c. 7. sect. 14. Shalshelet Hakabala, fol. 9. 2.

Hank77 said:

This is very interesting and makes a lot of sense to me. A call to pray. The Muslims do this and the church uses church bells as a call as well.
Gill, in his commentary mentions this Jewish law....

It is forbid, by a Jewish canon, to keep [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] at Jerusalem; it runs thus (c):

"they do not bring up [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in Jerusalem, because of the holy things, neither do the priests in all the land of Israel, because of the purifications."
(c) Misn. Bava Kama, c. 7. sect. 7. T. Bab. Bava Kama, fol. 82. 2. Abot R. Nathan, c. 35. Maimon. Hilch. Beth Habechirah, c. 7. sect. 14. Shalshelet Hakabala, fol. 9. 2.

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The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] did not need to be in Jerusalem, or even very near to it - just think of the sound they make and how quiet it would have been in those days with no ambient noise whatsoever. A [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] up to a mile away on a small holding would have been heard quite easily

Heber Book List said:

The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] did not need to be in Jerusalem, or even very near to it - just think of the sound they make and how quiet it would have been in those days with no ambient noise whatsoever. A [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] up to a mile away on a small holding would have been heard quite easily

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I don't have to think about how quiet it would be. I live on a country road and my closet neighbor is 1/4 mile away. They have chickens, cows, and sheep.

31gH9N.9. said:

Which passage is this part of his commentary from?

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Matt. 26:74

When exactly were chickens brought over from Asia? I truly haven't considered this before. Was it when Marco Polo established the trade route later on in history?

I'm pretty sure that at that time of year, the city overflowing with thousands of people there for the Passover it would be noisy at all hours. You can't squish that many people in Jerusalem without it. Think of shelter during disasters...............

Besides that, I think I read it in one of Alfred Edersheims works that the '[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]' was a sentry on the wall. He called out the hours , kinda like an ancient coo-coo clock.

You've heard of the saying 'the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of the walk'? I guess they named him that because he 'crowed' out the hours.