Lords supper, does it have to be bread and wine?

It's about certainty. It's about being able to know for certain that what God has promised to give us through his specific chosen means is what we receive from his hand.

I can know for certain that when God's called and ordained ministers give me the very blood of Our Lord Jesus, shed for me, under the form of simple grape wine, and when they give me the very body of Our Lord Jesus, broken for me, under the form of simple wheat bread, he has delivered to me in my body all that he has promised to give through the sacrament - forgiveness of sins, life, salvation, and the promise of resurrection to eternal life with God forever.

Mess with the Supper and you mess with that certainty. You introduce doubt where there should only be faith, thankfulness, and praise.

zoidar said:

What do you think? I heard that some guys used coke and cookies, when they were out camping.

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That is highly unusual. I don't want to go so far as to say that Christ did not condescend to their needs, but...
This reminds me of when priests would effect the Eucharist as a form of private devotion. A thing which was later condemned by the RC.
The Church knows of no other Eucharist than that which involves wine (with water) and bread. It's best to stick with what we have received.
I seem to remember a condemnation of honey and milk, but I am not certain of the council.

Our Lord never told us to do it otherwise.

zoidar said:

If we are imprisoned an all we have is bread and water, then is it better to not do it all? I think we can use other means in such situations.

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What if there was no priest among us?

Thatgirloncfforums said:

What if there was no priest among us?

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Catholic Christians have a prayer that allows one to make a “spiritual Communion”. I don’t think one should try to truly improvise with the physical Body and Blood, though there may be some historical exceptions. Still… I have heard of Catholics in China simply waiting years for a priest to come and administer the Sacraments correctly. They could have tried to “improvise” with available items, but they didn’t. They patiently waited for the right man to come and do things the right way.

My Jesus,
I believe that You are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love You above all things,
and I desire to receive You into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment receive You sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart.
I embrace You as if You were already there
and unite myself wholly to You.
Never permit me to be separated from You.

Amen.

zoidar said:

If we are imprisoned an all we have is bread and water, then is it better to not do it all? I think we can use other means in such situations.

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To do so is at odds with Christ's instructions; he gave us no alternatives; only clear instructions.

Thatgirloncfforums said:

What if there was no priest among us?

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One could make the argument of the Priesthood of all believers; Like the Disciples and those whom they coached and mentored, the Church administers the sacraments through called and ordained servants of the word. Regardless, if they do not have bread and wine to use, it is no communion.

anna ~ grace said:

Catholic Christians have a prayer that allows one to make a “spiritual Communion”. I don’t think one should try to truly improvise with the physical Body and Blood, though there may be some historical exceptions. Still… I have heard of Catholics in China simply waiting years for a priest to come and administer the Sacraments correctly. They could have tried to “improvise” with available items, but they didn’t. They patiently waited for the right man to come and do things the right way.

My Jesus,
I believe that You are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love You above all things,
and I desire to receive You into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment receive You sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart.
I embrace You as if You were already there
and unite myself wholly to You.
Never permit me to be separated from You.

Amen.

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This is the correct approach.

zoidar said:

What do you think? I heard that some guys used coke and cookies, when they were out camping.

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I read a story once where prisoners (they must have been POWs) who had nothing shared the Eucharist with no elements. According to the account I read, a number of the other prisoners were moved by that and came to faith. That's an extreme scenario so I wouldn't make a principle out of it.

I think it's best to use the elements we find in the scriptures that accompany the words of institution. God's grace is not bound by anything, but things should be done with order when possible. My goodness, if you have to share in the Eucharist while camping, think ahead. Lol

zoidar said:

I don't hold to the view Lords supper must be given by a priest. The same with baptism, all Christians can baptize.

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Do you believe that it's Jesus' body and blood?

zoidar said:

Yes

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If it's his body and blood then it's a sacrificial meal in some sense. Right?

zoidar said:

I agree that it should be done with order if possible. I just think that people that can't get hold of wine, in extreme circumstances, can use something else.

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I agree, in extreme circumstances. The example of camping doesn't strike me as extreme, but something like prisoners who have no access to the elements might be.

I can imagine a scenario where a group is stranded and in extreme distress. Under those circumstances the desire to share together in the Eucharist with whatever is at hand makes sense. But to just use milk and cookies under less than extreme circumstances seems a bit too much.

I'm a Protestant, but if someone holding a cup of Coke says, "In the same way he took the cup, saying: This cup is the new covenant sealed in my blood, shed for you for the forgiveness of sins. Whenever you drink it,
do this in remembrance of me" it had better be an extreme situation, as far I'm concerned. The mystery of the Eucharist should not be treated in a trite manner.

It wouldn't be his body though. The body of Christ is the Church, and using anything other than what the Church universal has used is breaking the literal physical oneness.

public hermit said:

I agree, in extreme circumstances. The example of camping doesn't strike me as extreme, but something like prisoners who have no access to the elements might be.

I can imagine a scenario where a group is stranded and in extreme distress. Under those circumstances the desire to share together in the Eucharist with whatever is at hand makes sense. But to just use milk and cookies under less than extreme circumstances seems a bit too much.

I'm a Protestant, but if someone holding a cup of Coke says, "In the same way he took the cup, saying: This cup is the new covenant sealed in my blood, shed for you for the forgiveness of sins. Whenever you drink it,
do this in remembrance of me" it had better be an extreme situation, as far I'm concerned. The mystery of the Eucharist should not be treated in a trite manner.

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