Why is Christianity even labelled as a religion?

RDKirk

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Which may be part of the problem... this list of practices does not include what James considered to be acts of holy devotion: "to visit orphans and widows in their distress, to keep oneself unstained by the world." And Jesus himself said "be doers of the word and not hearers only." Love one another. Love your enemies. Bless those that curse you. (I do not by this imply that gathered worship, prayer, fasting, are not vital parts of our life as the body of Christ. But Jesus calls us to be salt and light in and to the world - this is the outward practice of our faith.)

That just means that there really is a Christian religion...but people who aren't visiting widows and the fatherless (which is intended to mean taking care of one another in the Body of Christ) aren't practicing it.
 
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ViaCrucis

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To most people it looks like church attendance. I know you want me to say it looks like religion. I say it is a relationship with God. It's not a relationship with the mechanics of that relationship.

I'm not talking about church attendance as some kind of mechanics; I'm talking about the fact that God comes to us through Means. It is God who comes down to meet us, not us going up to meet God; and the way God meets us is in Jesus, He meets us in the Gospel, He meets us in the Sacraments, and He meets us in the Church, the Body of Christ, in which we are held together in Christ by the Spirit, around the gifts of God's Word and Sacraments.

What I am really trying to point out is that Christianity is not about a kind of esoteric, interior "God lives in me and I can know God by looking inside myself", it's about the exoteric and objective reality of God's act in history, of the Incarnation, of God dispensing and giving Himself through Word and Sacrament.

I am not going to find God by looking into myself. I find God where He promises to be, for us, in His own self-giving of Himself to us in Word and Sacrament. Yes, God dwells in me by His Spirit, yes, Christ is alive in me by the grace of God and what He has promised; but I don't find God by looking inward, I find God looking outward, to where His grace is manifest. Why can I know Christ and the Spirit are in me? Because the Word proclaims this, because of my Baptism, because of the Lord's Supper, because I am part of the mystical body of Jesus Christ, the Church, through these sacred means of God's grace reconciling me to Himself in Jesus by what Jesus has done.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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anx66

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Funny, anytime I was admitted to hospital I was asked what religion I was and I always said "Christian" they would say no what religion? I would say again "Christian" if they didn't write that I would say "oh you mean denomination".
I have to say I don't like saying I am anything other than a Christian. I may worship at a Presbyterian church but I am not a Presbyterian. I am CHRISTIAN and nothing else.
I agree, to me religious can be any manmade or man focused belief.
So if I am asked if I am religious I say " no I am Christian":amen:

I don't like the denominational divide, if I might put it that way. Calling yourself a Christian is a great idea, and I do exactly the same. I'm a Christian and a member of the Jesus' church, and I don't like denominationalism because it tends to destroy the unity between members of the body of Christ.
Saying all that, I do sometimes tell people that I go to this or that church, but that is purely as a means of communicating the actual congregation that I attend, rather than identifying myself with a particular denomination. I'd love to see the walls broken down between denominations.
 
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Dr Bruce Atkinson

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This one really irks me. When people, ask me whether I am religious, I am always inclinded to say no and I feel really uncomfortable saying things like “I converted the Christianity”.

You see, I feel it is strange to describe the following of Christ as a religion. Religion is something man-made. Us glorifying God, accepting freely given salvation and worshiping the one who created all, that isn’t man-made, it is the very purpose of all existence. It is the purpose humans, nay, the world was created. It ought to be the central purpose of all creation.
Calling it a religion implies a worldliness about it and puts it on the same level as false teachings created by humans. It also feels like it puts humans above God, in that the bible would only be true for those who choose to believe it is, whereas in fact all of it is true and God is there whether we believe it or not. Calling the act of worshiping the Lord, glorifying Him and following Christ a religion devalues it, in my eyes. I mean, how can you call something a religion when it transcends the very universe and is the essence of all being?

I’ll gladly testify that my life belongs to Christ, but calling something as holy and essential a mere religion makes me feel uncomfortable. It feels like spitting in the face of someone who is most precious to me or devaluing the most precious gift of all by putting it with mundane gifts.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion: I have been living under the assumption that religion is correctly described in a modern dictionary, which is how I used the word ‘religion’ in the title and original post. Having been told otherwise by some folks here, I now know better. What I meant is the mindless and senseless repition as well as the equation of Christianity with false teachings. Please forgive my ignorance.

I understand your feelings. I prefer to regard the Christian faith, not as a religion so much as a relationship... with God through Christ. Religions are about rules and prescribed ways of worship and living. The Old Testament had a lot of that. But Christ came to open up free access to the Father.
 
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Dr Bruce Atkinson

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This one really irks me. When people, ask me whether I am religious, I am always inclinded to say no and I feel really uncomfortable saying things like “I converted the Christianity”.

You see, I feel it is strange to describe the following of Christ as a religion. Religion is something man-made. Us glorifying God, accepting freely given salvation and worshiping the one who created all, that isn’t man-made, it is the very purpose of all existence. It is the purpose humans, nay, the world was created. It ought to be the central purpose of all creation.
Calling it a religion implies a worldliness about it and puts it on the same level as false teachings created by humans. It also feels like it puts humans above God, in that the bible would only be true for those who choose to believe it is, whereas in fact all of it is true and God is there whether we believe it or not. Calling the act of worshiping the Lord, glorifying Him and following Christ a religion devalues it, in my eyes. I mean, how can you call something a religion when it transcends the very universe and is the essence of all being?

I’ll gladly testify that my life belongs to Christ, but calling something as holy and essential a mere religion makes me feel uncomfortable. It feels like spitting in the face of someone who is most precious to me or devaluing the most precious gift of all by putting it with mundane gifts.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion: I have been living under the assumption that religion is correctly described in a modern dictionary, which is how I used the word ‘religion’ in the title and original post. Having been told otherwise by some folks here, I now know better. What I meant is the mindless and senseless repition as well as the equation of Christianity with false teachings. Please forgive my ignorance.

I understand your feelings. I prefer to regard the Christian faith, not as a religion so much as a relationship... with God through Christ. Religions are about rules and prescribed ways of worship and living. The Old Testament had a lot of that. But Christ came to open up free access to the Father.
 
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salt-n-light

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I understand your feelings. I prefer to regard the Christian faith, not as a religion so much as a relationship... with God through Christ. Religions are about rules and prescribed ways of worship and living. The Old Testament had a lot of that. But Christ came to open up free access to the Father.

Free access yes, but it's to fulfill not to abolish. A lot of the laws in the OT are very external responsibilities, but now that Jesus fulfilled them and we have the Holy Spirit the rules now are internal responsibilities.

This is why Jesus reference to adultery in Matthew 5 is very significant. He noted the external responsibilities in the OT, and connected it to how his fulfillment will bear the person internal responsibilities.

This was the problem with Israel. They were given many rules but unable to keep them because their hearts were still wicked. So the Holy Spirit makes it possible to us to adhere though the renewing of mind and heart.

But that's not to say that we don't give the same attentiveness as the OT prescribes. The testimonial laws are now fulfilled through Jesus, so the need to uphold the festivals is not needed, because Jesus is the sabbath, he's the sacrificial lamb, and following Him bear witness to both OT and NT. The many rules for the temple physically we don't need because we are the temple, but we still have rules in place like the OT to keep it Holy.

The more local laws like refraining from food, bodily fluids, list goes on, we don't follow, but the same logic of being sensitivityto the culture around us and our parameter is displayed through the letter of Paul.

The moral statues is still there but instead of us depending on our might like the Israelites did, we can rely on the Holy Spirit and the promises God made as our strength. Instead of bearing, we become bearers.

So rules still have its place but it's to gear the heart and not just actions. So I wouldn't knock down religion. It's just those who paint a negative picture don't find value in the magnitude and symbolic depth. And that for those looking from the outside and believers alike. We should take the time to understand things we are doing, instead of readily knock it out because it may rub people the wrong way.
 
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listed

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Free access yes, but it's to fulfill not to abolish. A lot of the laws in the OT are very external responsibilities, but now that Jesus fulfilled them and we have the Holy Spirit the rules now are internal responsibilities.

This is why Jesus reference to adultery in Matthew 5 is very significant. He noted the external responsibilities in the OT, and connected it to how his fulfillment will bear the person internal responsibilities.

This was the problem with Israel. They were given many rules but unable to keep them because their hearts were still wicked. So the Holy Spirit makes it possible to us to adhere though the renewing of mind and heart.

But that's not to say that we don't give the same attentiveness as the OT prescribes. The testimonial laws are now fulfilled through Jesus, so the need to uphold the festivals is not needed, because Jesus is the sabbath, he's the sacrificial lamb, and following Him bear witness to both OT and NT. The many rules for the temple physically we don't need because we are the temple, but we still have rules in place like the OT to keep it Holy.

The more local laws like refraining from food, bodily fluids, list goes on, we don't follow, but the same logic of being sensitivityto the culture around us and our parameter is displayed through the letter of Paul.

The moral statues is still there but instead of us depending on our might like the Israelites did, we can rely on the Holy Spirit and the promises God made as our strength. Instead of bearing, we become bearers.

So rules still have its place but it's to gear the heart and not just actions. So I wouldn't knock down religion. It's just those who paint a negative picture don't find value in the magnitude and symbolic depth. And that for those looking from the outside and believers alike. We should take the time to understand things we are doing, instead of readily knock it out because it may rub people the wrong way.
Do you think we have to fulfill the law?
 
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salt-n-light

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Do you think we have to fulfill the law?

No Jesus fulfilled the law, he did all that the Israelites were suppose to do. Our responsibility is to bear the testament of that through the Holy Spirit, like how the Israelites were set apart to be the example of righteousness.

Only through Jesus we can honor Gods covenant with us.
 
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Tangible

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Which may be part of the problem... this list of practices does not include what James considered to be acts of holy devotion: "to visit orphans and widows in their distress, to keep oneself unstained by the world." And Jesus himself said "be doers of the word and not hearers only." Love one another. Love your enemies. Bless those that curse you. (I do not by this imply that gathered worship, prayer, fasting, are not vital parts of our life as the body of Christ. But Jesus calls us to be salt and light in and to the world - this is the outward practice of our faith.)

Jesus wasn't a Christian.

Did anyone ever notice those passages where Jesus is worshiping and teaching in local synagogues, or worshiping and teaching in the temple in Jerusalem?

Spoiler Alert: Jesus was religious. He was raised in a religious family in a religious community in a religious culture. He personally practiced public religion by participating in rituals, observing feasts, fasts and festivals, and teaching others about religion. He practiced personal religious devotion by studying and meditating on the scriptures, praying, and fasting.

Jesus' religion was post-exilic Judaism, which (being God) he properly interpreted, explained, perfected, expanded to include all nations.

Over time, through the leading of the Holy Spirit, this perfected religion continued to be transformed by the Apostles and their disciples into what became recognized as a new religion with rituals and worship practices based on the traditions of post-exilic Judaism and expanded to include religious expressions of the New Covenant relationship God had put into place by grace, through faith in Christ alone.

And so do we.

Religious practice and belief are a very significant part of the relationship we have with God -- a relationship initiated, sustained and brought to final fruition by God himself, not by us. Religion and relationship are not mutually exclusive but are unified in the practice of true religion, the one that became known as Christianity.
 
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Monna

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Spoiler Alert: Jesus was religious.

He went far beyond religion. When you listen carefully to what he said, he didn't practice 'religion' as the general public today thinks of 'religion.' "My food and drink is to do the will of my Father." "I do nothing of myself, only what my Father shows me." The Jewish religion of his day was very much about the law. Jesus did not "keep" the law as the religious leaders saw it, but he was the "fulfillment" of the law. He went beyond the letter of the law to the spirit and intent - "there are only two laws- to love the Lord your God with everything you've got, and to love your neighbour as yourself." He followed much more James' definition of religion - visiting orphans and widows (in fact, healing the sick, raising the dead, feeding the hungery, SEEing and appreciating the disadvantaged (women and children) and the outcasts (tax collectors, 'sinners' and lepers) - than the 'religion' of today.

His "religious" behaviour was so radical that the religious teachers and leaders hated him, plotted against him, and ultimately orchestrated his crucifixion. They would not have thought of him as being "religious" in the correct way.
 
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Tangible

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His "religious" behaviour was so radical that the religious teachers and leaders hated him, plotted against him, and ultimately orchestrated his crucifixion. They would not have thought of him as being "religious" in the correct way.

And they would have been wrong. The false religious practice of the teachers and scribes were based on the Law, but then were practically covered over with centuries of added, man-made laws and traditions. Jesus rejected their false piety and hypocrisy. He called them out on their false religion.

I really wouldn't have a problem with this discussion if only proper terminology were used. Instead of pitting "religion" against "true religion" why not use the term "religion" properly and contrast that against "false religion"?

Go on and on against false religion all you want. Just don't misuse the word religion as being synonymous with false religion.

Mark 7:1ff.
Now when the Pharisees gathered to him, with some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem, they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly, holding to the tradition of the elders, and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.) And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?” And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,

“‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
 
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Monna

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I really wouldn't have a problem with this discussion if only proper terminology were used. Instead of pitting "religion" against "true religion" why not use the term "religion" properly and contrast that against "false religion"?

"True religion" according to Moses was keeping the law. It was very much about rituals and symbols and the social behaviour that was expressed primarily through "Do not...s." The rituals and symbols were the religion as they saw it. The OT (true) prophets constantly reminded the people of the spirit of the law, while false prophets led people astray with what they considered was right. Jesus saw and practiced what the symbols and accepted social behaviour pointed to. The religious leaders had what to them was "true religion." It was Jesus who saw through it and called it "false."

We have the same difficulty today, with the majority of people practising what they consider "true religion." I doubt very many would knowingly and purposefully hold to what is in their own eyes "false religion" any more than the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day. I personally look around among my "christian" contacts and feel that few of them are willing to dig deeper honestly to see whether or not they practise a true or false relgion. They seem not to be humble enough to consider that even some of their (cherished) beliefs are even possibly wrong.

When I read the Gospels and Acts and see how totally wrong the disciples understood the OT and the concepts of the Messiah, even after they had listened daily to Jesus for three years, I cannot avoid asking myself constantly what I have misunderstood, and still misunderstand. To the extent I think religion is of any value I continue to look for the true variety. And in the meantime I will hold on to strengthening my relationship with my Lord and Saviour Jesus, who is Himself the light, the way, the truth, the life, the bread, the word, the logic, the door and much much more.
 
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"True religion" according to Moses was keeping the law. It was very much about rituals and symbols and the social behaviour that was expressed primarily through "Do not...s." The rituals and symbols were the religion as they saw it.
I humbly suggest that you might want to review the book of Hebrews and Romans regarding whether or not the ancient Hebrew religion was summed up as keeping the Law. All the way back to Abraham, no one in the OT was saved by keeping the Law, but through faith in the promises of God. This faith in God's promises showed itself in obedience to all the various kinds of laws and rituals given to them by God and through the various prophets. Just as today, the keeping of the law was a product of their faith in God's promises, not the cause of God's good will.

The OT (true) prophets constantly reminded the people of the spirit of the law, while false prophets led people astray with what they considered was right. Jesus saw and practiced what the symbols and accepted social behaviour pointed to. The religious leaders had what to them was "true religion." It was Jesus who saw through it and called it "false."
This is exactly what I said in my last post. The religious leaders of Jesus' day believed that they had true religion through the keeping of the Law. Jesus demonstrated very clearly, much to their chagrin, that their religion was false. He then he proceeded to fulfill the Law, to teach what true religion is, to establish through his death and resurrection the very foundation, not only for the new covenant, but for the old covenant as well, and to institute the means of grace through which the benefits of his salvific works would be transferred to present and future generations of believers in the true religion.

We have the same difficulty today, with the majority of people practising what they consider "true religion." I doubt very many would knowingly and purposefully hold to what is in their own eyes "false religion" any more than the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day.
While it is true that we may only see ultimate spiritual reality through a dark glass, we do, in fact, have the light that shines in the darkness in the form of Holy Scripture. While interpretations vary and divisions have sadly been necessary, there exists one ultimately true, original meaning of each passage of scripture. The degree to which our theology deviates from the original meaning of the scriptures is the same degree to which our own religion is false.

I personally look around among my "christian" contacts and feel that few of them are willing to dig deeper honestly to see whether or not they practise a true or false relgion. They seem not to be humble enough to consider that even some of their (cherished) beliefs are even possibly wrong.
As long as we have first honestly examined our own doctrines in this way, it can be very revealing to compare the varied and disparate doctrines of Christian groups and individuals.

I went through a similar process when at age 40 I began to critically examine the Baptist and general Evangelical views in which I had been raised. This led to a minor crisis in faith which ultimately landed me within what I believe to be the theological confession that most clearly echos and agrees with the Holy Scriptures.

When I read the Gospels and Acts and see how totally wrong the disciples understood the OT and the concepts of the Messiah, even after they had listened daily to Jesus for three years,
To be fair, Jesus had yet to open their minds to understand the scriptures and they had not yet received the gift of the Holy Spirit who would lead them into all truth.

I cannot avoid asking myself constantly what I have misunderstood, and still misunderstand. To the extent I think religion is of any value I continue to look for the true variety.
I believe you are on the right track here.

And in the meantime I will hold on to strengthening my relationship with my Lord and Saviour Jesus, who is Himself the light, the way, the truth, the life, the bread, the word, the logic, the door and much much more.
Very good, as long as you are not speaking of this relationship in some kind of mystical way or through the self-focused lens of pietism.

It is God himself who establishes his relationship with us, nurtures it, and brings it to fruition. We participate in this relationship by taking an active part in the life of the Church, through continuing to receive the gives God graciously pours out on us through the ministry of Word and Sacrament.
 
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This one really irks me. When people, ask me whether I am religious, I am always inclinded to say no and I feel really uncomfortable saying things like “I converted the Christianity”.

You see, I feel it is strange to describe the following of Christ as a religion. Religion is something man-made. Us glorifying God, accepting freely given salvation and worshiping the one who created all, that isn’t man-made, it is the very purpose of all existence. It is the purpose humans, nay, the world was created. It ought to be the central purpose of all creation.
Calling it a religion implies a worldliness about it and puts it on the same level as false teachings created by humans. It also feels like it puts humans above God, in that the bible would only be true for those who choose to believe it is, whereas in fact all of it is true and God is there whether we believe it or not. Calling the act of worshiping the Lord, glorifying Him and following Christ a religion devalues it, in my eyes. I mean, how can you call something a religion when it transcends the very universe and is the essence of all being?

I’ll gladly testify that my life belongs to Christ, but calling something as holy and essential a mere religion makes me feel uncomfortable. It feels like spitting in the face of someone who is most precious to me or devaluing the most precious gift of all by putting it with mundane gifts.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion: I have been living under the assumption that religion is correctly described in a modern dictionary, which is how I used the word ‘religion’ in the title and original post. Having been told otherwise by some folks here, I now know better. What I meant is the mindless and senseless repition as well as the equation of Christianity with false teachings. Please forgive my ignorance.

It is called a religion today because generally speaking it is a religion. Its original idea of relationship has long gone.
 
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thecolorsblend

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I understand your feelings. I prefer to regard the Christian faith, not as a religion so much as a relationship... with God through Christ. Religions are about rules and prescribed ways of worship and living. The Old Testament had a lot of that. But Christ came to open up free access to the Father.
If Christianity doesn't count as a religion, the word has no coherent meaning and should never be used to describe anything ever again.
 
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John tower

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This one really irks me. When people, ask me whether I am religious, I am always inclinded to say no and I feel really uncomfortable saying things like “I converted the Christianity”.

You see, I feel it is strange to describe the following of Christ as a religion. Religion is something man-made. Us glorifying God, accepting freely given salvation and worshiping the one who created all, that isn’t man-made, it is the very purpose of all existence. It is the purpose humans, nay, the world was created. It ought to be the central purpose of all creation.
Calling it a religion implies a worldliness about it and puts it on the same level as false teachings created by humans. It also feels like it puts humans above God, in that the bible would only be true for those who choose to believe it is, whereas in fact all of it is true and God is there whether we believe it or not. Calling the act of worshiping the Lord, glorifying Him and following Christ a religion devalues it, in my eyes. I mean, how can you call something a religion when it transcends the very universe and is the essence of all being?

I’ll gladly testify that my life belongs to Christ, but calling something as holy and essential a mere religion makes me feel uncomfortable. It feels like spitting in the face of someone who is most precious to me or devaluing the most precious gift of all by putting it with mundane gifts.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion: I have been living under the assumption that religion is correctly described in a modern dictionary, which is how I used the word ‘religion’ in the title and original post. Having been told otherwise by some folks here, I now know better. What I meant is the mindless and senseless repition as well as the equation of Christianity with false teachings. Please forgive my ignorance.
Amen brother well said : The disciples did not call themselves Christians But were first called Christians by others at Antioch !
 
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John tower

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This one really irks me. When people, ask me whether I am religious, I am always inclinded to say no and I feel really uncomfortable saying things like “I converted the Christianity”.

You see, I feel it is strange to describe the following of Christ as a religion. Religion is something man-made. Us glorifying God, accepting freely given salvation and worshiping the one who created all, that isn’t man-made, it is the very purpose of all existence. It is the purpose humans, nay, the world was created. It ought to be the central purpose of all creation.
Calling it a religion implies a worldliness about it and puts it on the same level as false teachings created by humans. It also feels like it puts humans above God, in that the bible would only be true for those who choose to believe it is, whereas in fact all of it is true and God is there whether we believe it or not. Calling the act of worshiping the Lord, glorifying Him and following Christ a religion devalues it, in my eyes. I mean, how can you call something a religion when it transcends the very universe and is the essence of all being?

I’ll gladly testify that my life belongs to Christ, but calling something as holy and essential a mere religion makes me feel uncomfortable. It feels like spitting in the face of someone who is most precious to me or devaluing the most precious gift of all by putting it with mundane gifts.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion: I have been living under the assumption that religion is correctly described in a modern dictionary, which is how I used the word ‘religion’ in the title and original post. Having been told otherwise by some folks here, I now know better. What I meant is the mindless and senseless repition as well as the equation of Christianity with false teachings. Please forgive my ignorance.
( 9 ) : ” THE TRUE PURPOSE OF THIS LIFE ! “
August 20, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment


The true purpose of this life is the creation , growth and training of a special group of people called ” THE ELECT . ” The non elect know nothing of this because it is not for them . Everything in the physical is deliberately designed as physical illustrations of spiritual realities . The Elect constantly learn from the physical about the spiritual and continually grow spiritually . This is why Christ taught in parables , taking things out of the physical and showing what they are illustrative of in the spiritual . Again the non elect know nothing of this : They lead totally pointless lives of Work , Eat , Sleep , only amassing material things , which will only pass away : In other words working for NOTHING ! Also all the life experiences that the Elect go through are constantly teaching them things and also strengthening them spiritually . This is of course all orchestrated by God : HEBREWS 12 ( 2 ) : ” Looking unto JESUS , THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! ” and ROMANS 8 ( 19 ) : ” The whole creation waits for THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD ! ” THIS IS WHAT THIS PRESENT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT : THE CREATION AND TRAINING OF THIS NEW RACE CALLED ” THE ELECT . ” Of course only the Elect can understand these things , the non elect cannot because this understanding is not given to them : MATTHEW 13 ( 11 ) : ” TO YOU IT IS GIVEN TO KNOW THE MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN , TO THEM IT IS NOT GIVEN ! ” and LUKE 7 ( 35 ) : ” But WISDOM IS JUSTIFIED OF ALL HER CHILDREN ! ” : Only the children of wisdom can understand each other ! ” THIS IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF THIS LIFE ! “
 
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